Author Topic: A new .58 and some questions  (Read 746 times)

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Offline robin_du_bois

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A new .58 and some questions
« on: December 08, 2004, 08:51:44 AM »
I bought a .40 cal this fall, shoot it at least 5 days a week and still can't get enough.  I've hunted and shot all my life.  I hunt hard and I hunt far into wilderness areas.  My passion has always been the hunt -- the rifle, though appreciated, was something I practiced with often only because it was the tool to cleanly accomplish the final aspect of the hunt.  I never really enjoyed shooting firearms for the sake of shooting.

My joy of shooting was limited to my recurve or longbow and my greatest accomplishments (few and far between Still hunting in the West) were the successful hunts with the bow.

As I grew older, however, I began to long for something between the magnum rifle and the traditional bow -- something that would still offer the challenges of a real hunt but an improved possibility of bringing home meat.

Thus the flintlock and for the first time in my life I really LOVE shooting a gun.  There is an undeniable intimacy in the process of muzzleloading and an unequaled pleasure in fiddling with all the things involved in a flintlock and having it go Ka-boom every time.  And as crazy as this may sound, I enjoy sitting down in the evening and going through the cleaning.  Christ, I even love the smell of it.

And so it was inevitable that my utter pleasure in shooting and hunting small game with the .40 led me to want something for deer and elk.  Therefore, I did some research and contacted a gentleman named Allen Martin who'll have a .58 cal for me in 6 months or so.  This will be used almost exclusively for elk hunting in Colorado between 10,500 & 12,000 ft.  Could any of you offer load suggestions?  It will have a Getz 46" octagon to round barrel.  I'm also curious about what I hear concerning Swiss powder.  Could someone clarify what that is and what its benefits are over Goex?
Thanks

Offline gewehrfreund

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2004, 09:03:06 AM »
Not sure what style your 58 will be, but you might want to rethink the 46" barrel. It's not necessary for most styles of rifles and could be a hinderance while hunting. While I'm not one to advocate short barrels on muzzleloaders (though I do love the Jaeger rifles), something in the 32-38" range would serve you just as well. If you were talking about a smaller caliber, it might be another story. Just my $.02. Good luck with the gun. I've not heard of Allen Martin before; where is he located?

Offline filmokentucky

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2004, 09:31:38 AM »
Robin- You are fortunate to be getting one of Allen's rifles. Given the barrel length, is it a Lancaster style? The primary advantage of Swiss over GOEX is that you get a higher velocity with a smaller charge of Swiss. Some say you also get less fouling with Swiss as well. Against Swiss is a higher price--as much as eight dollars a pound more from some sources.
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Offline robin_du_bois

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2004, 09:34:03 AM »
gewehrfreund,

Thanks for the thoughts.  I really like long, heavy barrels.  Even the rifle I use for deer (these are Cous deer in steep rugged country that require 5 - 7 mile backpack journeys to camp and tough, long hunts everyday) is a #1 with a fat 30" custom barrel.  I want the gun to sit still no matter how hard my heart's pumping.  The fact that I'm 6'4" may be a factor but I know lots of hunters who like their barrels long and heavy.

Allen has a website: www.allenmartinrifles.com -- worth a visit, beautiful guns and a great guy.

Offline roundball

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2004, 12:26:10 PM »
As somewhat of a .58cal reference, I bought a new GM 1" X 33" .58cal flint barrel this year...range tested it with 80grns, 90grns, and 100grns of Goex FFg and every charge weight made a ragged hole at 50yds...an incredibly accurate barrel and/or caliber.

The 100grn load zeroed at 50yds dropped only 3" at 100yds.
I settled on that for deer hunting, with a .62cal oxyoke wonderwad, .018" pillow ticking, and Hornady .570/278grn balls.

Took two deer with it in November, neither more than 50yds, both heart shots, complete passthroughs, dropped in 25-30 yards.

It seems the .58 is a potent caliber but IMO is overkill for Eastern whitetails at typical woods distances...but I had to try one and this GM barrel is an absolute tackdriver...hope you enjoy yours!
"Flintlocks.......The Real Deal"
(Claims that 1:48" twists won't shoot PRBs accurately are old wives tales!!)

Offline KING

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2004, 12:50:40 PM »
:D I may possibley be of some assistance here for you.  I shoot a .58 quite a bit and my bbl is just a little less than 44 inches in length on this particular rifle.  My load for it across the board( read hunting load) is 100of Swiss 1.5,a .570 rb and a .018 pillow ticking patch lubed with pure neetsfood oil(not neetsfoot compound).  This gun also wears a peep in the rear and a hooded sight with a small pin in the front.  I has way to much power in my opinion for whitetail and will blow right through the animal .  Last deer killed was dressed at 160 and was shot at a little over 70 yards.  Ball went through both shoulders,continued on and went through a 4 inch pine tree,about 30 yards further on.  Deer went about 15 yards at the hit and was DOA upon walking up to it.  Also there was not as much meat damage as would be expected from the ball..............stay safe........King
THE ONLY FEMALE THAT I TRUST IS A LABRADOR.......AND SHE DONT SNOORE,AND DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT MY COOKING...THE ONLY GODS THAT EXIST ARE THOSE THAT HAVE ONE IN THE CHAMBER,AND 19 IN THE MAG.......

Offline dlemaster

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2004, 01:15:19 AM »
robin_du_bois

I use a flintlock .58 cal. copy of the "Edward Marshall Rifle" as well as a .60 cal flintlock "Andreas Albrecht Rifle" both do well on elk using 100 to 125 grains of Goex 2F and a patched round ball. We took a nice large cow elk in Arizona a couple of years ago.

Regards, Dave
"I love a good gun for it makes a man feel independent, and prepared for either war or peace".
David Crockett  1834

Offline gewehrfreund

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2004, 03:00:49 AM »
Robin,
Good luck with that long-barreled 58. I have an affinity for long barrels too (just had a Browning highwall rebarreled with a long, heavy octagon barrel). Here in the east, deer cover can get very thick, so I defer to practicality and hunt with shorter barrels.  I have had a 58 LH Jaeger with a 31" Getz swamped barrel on the works for a couple of years now; just can't find the time/inspiration to finish it. Maybe this thread will push me to get it done.  Have fun with your gun, those are some nice rifles on the Martin website.
Lance

Offline jeager106

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2004, 09:13:07 PM »
I shoot a Kieth Lisle American Jeager flint .58 with 33" colrain swamped barrel.
I use 85 grains of 1.5 Swiss.
If using Goex I'd go with 100 grains.
Do NOT use heavy loads of Swiss 2fg in bores over .50.
Go up one grain size and cut back 20%.
Is Swiss worth it?
It is to me.
Clean and very efficient.
My Jeager is very accurate with 85 grains and I'm sure it will suffice for eastern whitetail.

Offline Longcruise

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A new .58 and some questions
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2004, 04:11:34 AM »
Robin, here are some average velocities from a .54 cal with 32 inch barrel.  All shot with 50 grain charges from the same measure and all shot the same day, same patch, etc.  bore was wiped after each shot.  This will give you an idea of fhe power variations in some of the popular powders out there.  As you can see, they are far from equal.  I've settled on the Graf powder because of good results with accuracy, iginition and clean up.  The Swiss is superior as far as ignition and clean up but the Graf powder is much less expensive.  Accuracy is a toss up and I find that any powder can give good accuracy if the correct load is put together.  The Elephant powder was the slowest and dirtiest of the lot but a guy who shoots our club match uses it and is always in the winners circle so go figger!

Graf 3f
Avg  1390

Elephant 2f
Avg  1201

Swiss 2f
Avg  1552

Goex 2f
Avg  1362

Goex 3f
Avg  1492

Pyrodex RS usually clocks right with Goex 2f in some other tests I did.