Author Topic: A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????  (Read 781 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« on: December 09, 2004, 07:54:01 AM »
Thursday, December 9, 2004
Drivers' licenses to face new federal standards

By Kathleen Hunter, Staff Writer, Stateline.org
The landmark U.S. intelligence overhaul passed by Congress Wednesday (Dec. 8) includes the first mandatory federal identification standards for drivers’ licenses, birth certificates and other forms of state-issued ID, little-noticed provisions that have some wary state officials upset over what one terms “an end run on states’ rights.”

The intelligence bill, which stemmed from recommendations of the independent commission that investigated the 9-11 attacks, requires the U.S. Departments of Transportation and Homeland Security to establish minimum identification standards for drivers’ licenses and other state-issued identification cards. If a state’s license does not meet the standards in two years, federal agencies will not be allowed accept it as valid identification for such purposes as boarding airplanes and many other common transactions of daily life.

The bill also sets a two-year deadline for states to conform with minimum standards for birth certificates. Those will be set by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

John Hurson, president of the National Conference of State Legislatures has called efforts to establish minimum standards for drivers’ licenses “nothing more than an end-run on states’ rights.”

Never before has the federal government regulated state-issued drivers’ licenses or birth certificates. Rule-making committees, which will include elected state officials, will be formed to help develop the standards.

Because state-issued drivers’ licenses are the primary devices used to establish identity in the United States – they commonly are used to board airplanes and to complete financial transactions, for example – federal and state homeland security officials have a keen interest in ensuring they are made more secure.

The fact that four of the 19 Sept. 11 hijackers obtained valid licenses (from Florida, New Jersey and Virginia) focused an especially dramatic spotlight on this issue. Sharp increases in cases of identity theft and concerns about fraud by underage individuals and illegal immigrants have aggravated concerns.

The intelligence bill would require that each license include a digital photograph of the holder as well as the holder’s full name, date of birth, gender and drivers’ license or personal identification number. While some states already meet all these requirements, others do not. States also will be required to meet stiffer standards for the documentation they accept as proof of identity from license applicants, for the processes by which they verify those documents and for the means by which licenses are issued.

The legislation authorizes federal grants to help states pay the cost of upgrading their licenses, but Cheye Calvo, who handles federal-state issues for the National Conference of State Legislatures, said state lawmakers fear that the money might not actually be delivered. In the past, Calvo said, “promises of federal money never materialized.”

“We think that it is very important that Congress actually comes up with the money to implement these standards,” he said. “We don’t want the Intelligence bill to be the biggest unfunded mandate of the 108th Congress.”

The grants to states would be allocated based on average number of drivers’ licenses, identification cards and birth certificates a state issues each year, with no state receiving less than 0.5 percent of the total available funds.

The legislation, which appeared permanently stalled early this week, was jump-started by a compromise on another section of the bill that regulates chain-of-command on the battlefield. The House quickly brought the bill to the floor and passed it easily on Tuesday. Senate passage on Wednesday completed congressional action and moved the bill forward for signature by President Bush, a strong supporter.

Calvo said Congress’ move could hamper efforts already underway in states to make licenses more secure.

“Our concern is that federal standards will stifle innovation because states are doing things differently from each other,” he said. “But all states are advancing the ball in terms of security … To try and impose a one-size-fits-all approach, I think, is short-sighted.”

The bill aims to address some state officials’ concerns by barring the federal government from requiring a single drivers' license design, by preserving states’ powers to determine who is eligible for a license and by calling for procedures to protect the privacy of license applicants and holders.

“There is a real concern out there that this federal framework not turn into a national ID,” Calvo said.

The bill’s birth-certificate provisions require stronger standards to verify identity before a certificate is issued, to process certificates and to have a state or local official certify them. They also expressly bar requiring a single design.

While state officials are far from pleased with the imposition of new standards regulating state-issued identification, two other measures included in earlier versions of the bill caused them much more heartburn.

One would have forced states to require drivers’ license applicants to demonstrate legal presence in the United States, in effect barring states from issuing licenses to illegal immigrants. Only 10 states currently lack a legal presence requirement, in any case.

That requirement and other immigration reforms have the support of many House Republicans -- most notably House Judiciary Chairman Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), who for a time helped block a Congressional vote on the overall intelligence bill unless it addressed the illegal aliens issue. Consideration of such requirements will likely re-emerge soon after Congress reconvenes in January.

An earlier version of the bill also would have changed the formula for distributing homeland security grants to state and local governments, but that the change was dropped from the conference report. The bill does include language urging Congress to distribute monies based on assessments of which areas face the greatest threat from a terrorist attack.

Send your comments on this story to letters@stateline.org. Selected reader feedback will be posted in the Letters to the editor section.
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline jh45gun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4992
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 10:26:07 AM »
I know who I am that is all that counts!  :D  :)  :grin:  :roll:  :twisted:
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26945
  • Gender: Male
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2004, 11:07:25 AM »
It seems to me the time is way past due for someone to tell the federal government about the US Constitution. It enumerates certain powers to the federal government and states all others not specifically enumerated are reserved to the states. They need to be reminded that ALL power in the US is derived from the governed NOT from those who govern.

I've been saying it now for several years and I say again the time is drawing nearer. There will be another civil war in this country. Or maybe I am saying that wrong. I think it will be more of a Revolutionary War not a civil war. It will be the people in mass rising up and if needed taking up arms to take back their government from those in power who are beginning to abuse their power as badly as England did all those many years ago. Why do you think the push is on to take our guns? They know this is coming. They just want to delay it long enough to have our guns first.

If we don't turn it around at the ballot box soon it will be too late to do it there. If we don't do it before our guns are gone or they stand posied to take them after registration it will be too late even for armed resistance. Do you think those in power don't know this too?

I'm an old fart and won't be around that many more years really. I might not live to see it happen. But happen it will. If it doesn't happen in time tho this country will be worse than Russia was at the height of the communist regime. I'm too old and far gone to be a leader of any such movement but sure can see the handwriting on the wall that it's a coming.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Major

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2004, 12:01:49 PM »
I agree Graybeard.   It will happen unless people wake up.

The people sit on their duffs complaining about who is at the top and the whole while they keep sending back the same bums that are in the House and Senate.   That is where we need to clean up this mess we are in.   It is the House and Senate that make all the stupid rules and regulations that are taking away our freedoms.  The whole mess could be cleaned up in 6 years or less if we would think carefully about who we send back to D.C. to run things.

I too may not live to see the end, thank God.   But you are right Bill, unless the younger ones here do something it is only a matter of time.
Deactivated as trouble maker

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 12:24:41 PM »
Quote from: Major
The whole mess could be cleaned up in 6 years or less if we would think carefully about who we send back to D.C. to run things.

That be correct, say Dali Llama.
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline Nightrain52

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 814
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2004, 03:39:40 AM »
Major and Graybeard, I couldn't agree with you more. I started noticeing this trend back about 1980 and at that time I thought how much more are the American people going to take before they say enough is enough. Still nothing has really been happening to stop it. As you have said with all the health issues I have I won't be around to see it happen but make no mistake, it will happen.
FREEDOM IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR-ARE YOU WILLING TO DIE FOR IT--------IT'S HARD TO SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE WHEN YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY TURKEYS

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2004, 06:35:30 AM »
While I too distrust government intrusion, it is obvious that we do need a reliable means of identification.  I believe is should be voluntary, so if you don't want to have a national I.D., that's up to you, but to use drivers licenses for identification is just dumb.

The taxpayers of this country are being ripped off right and left from illegal aliens who are coming here and receiving services without having to prove that they are citizens.  I believe that some non-citizens are also voting illegally.  This is costing us billions and if something isn't done to stop it, we will be dragged down to a much lower standard of living.

The fact is that we already have a defacto national I.D. and that is our Social Security Number.  The problem is that probably anyone can get a Social Security Number, or just make one up.  We need something that is authentic, secure, and not subject to being counterfitted.
Swingem

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2004, 09:12:02 AM »
Quote from: magooch
it is obvious that we do need a reliable means of identification.
Not national, say Dali Llama. :twisted:  :x  :evil:
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline whodowl

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2004, 01:37:57 PM »
Quote from: Dali Llama
Quote from: magooch
it is obvious that we do need a reliable means of identification.
Not national, say Dali Llama. :twisted:  :x  :evil:


I strongly ditto the "not national".

Offline FWiedner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1686
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2004, 05:14:26 AM »
...

What valid reason is there for the government to register and tag the citizenry like so many stray dogs?

I guarantee that it will not be a decade before there are "random" roadblocks across the country with armed badges demanding to see "papers" and harassing ordinary people for information about their daily personal business.  This is the end result of the "If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about" attitude.

When the government wants every single American man, woman, and child registered, tagged and accounted for, it seems like there's a reason to worry, whether one has done anything or not.  It looks like Mr. Bush and Mr. Ashcroft's little crop is bearing fruit.

The purported reason is to assist in the "war on terrorism".  Really?  Why haven't the borders been secured?  What would be so difficult about enforcing the border boundaries? It's simple.  If on the northern border shoot everyone coming south, and if on the southern border shoot everyone who tries to come north.  Why is there no major effort to apprehend ALL foreign nationals currently in this country illegally?  Why are we flushing our money down treasury toilets providing social benefits and services to people who are, in fact, criminals invading our country?  Why are states issueing licenses and permits to legitimize their lifestyles?  They are criminals.

Instead the government chooses to treat ALL American citizens as "the enemy within".

Any government that chooses to behave as an occupying force should not be suprised when they begin to be regarded and treated as such.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2004, 03:43:40 AM »
A little thing called the Constitution gets in the way of having I.D. roadblocks.

If you think nothing is being done about our borders, well maybe you haven't been there.  It is impossible to completely guard our borders, especially to keep out those who intend to do us harm; they will find a way, no matter how well the borders are watched.  As for those who come here illegally to find work, have babies, or are just looking for a better life, that could, should and will be tightened up, but one should try to remember that this is an enourmous country with thousands of miles of border.  

Complicating the illegal alien problem are some city and other government entities who are totally opposed to enforcing immigration laws.  If current laws aren't able to force local, state and federal officials to enforce immigration laws, then maybe we need a new law.
Swingem

Offline FWiedner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1686
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2004, 04:14:26 AM »
Quote
"If you think nothing is being done about our borders, well maybe you haven't been there."



I've been to the border.  Recently.  And I visit the region several times a year.

Any dirtbag with disheveled clothing, a hard-luck story, and unable to speak english who crosses the border, at any point, is welcomed with open arms.  They are provided transportation, food, shelter, and a support system.  Many are provided every advantage and public assistance at U.S. taxpayer expense because they are "poor refugees", or because they seek political "asylum", or because they "just want to earn a living".  These people are criminals.

Meanwhile, any American citizen who crosses the border and then attempts to come back home without using one of the several infrequent authorized points-of-entry, gets slapped with a $10,000 fine.

Why don't we just ship all the hookers down to the border with Mexico so that we can provide our poor underprivileged bretheren with complimentary "welcome-aboard" hummers?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
A step toward NATIONAL ID'S?????
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2004, 08:56:00 AM »
Quote from: FWiedner
Quote
"If you think nothing is being done about our borders, well maybe you haven't been there."



Why don't we just ship all the hookers down to the border with Mexico so that we can provide our poor underprivileged bretheren with complimentary "welcome-aboard" hummers?
:eek:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :eek:
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk