Author Topic: Free Float Barrel or Not ?  (Read 660 times)

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Offline hylander

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« on: December 11, 2004, 06:51:47 PM »
Well I got a New Rem. ADL 22-250 Sysnthetic, sporter barrel.
Not grouping well 1.5" average, some groups under an inch.
I checked and the barrel had pressure on the left side from tip of forend to about 4" back. So I free floated the barrel, I have not shot it yet.
What are your thoughts on free floating a sporter weight barrel.
Or do they usually do better fully bedded or with the end pressure
bedded.
Failure is not an option
Placer County, Calif.

Offline Graybeard

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2004, 06:57:43 PM »
You messed up big time. You should have asked first. We just went thru this with another guy who did same not long ago. Thread is still here somewhere.

In the first place 1.5" with some under an inch is not bad shooting. If you were getting some side pressure that is all you should have dealt with and a bit of load work.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline hylander

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2004, 07:09:45 PM »
Howd'y Graybeard:
I did just address the pressure part, the rest of the barrel was
already free floating.
But right now that is neighter here nore there.
Where do I go from here :? .
Also a Rem. 22-250 is junk to me if it can't keep group's between
 .75" and 1" all the time.
Failure is not an option
Placer County, Calif.

Offline gunnut69

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2004, 10:03:37 PM »
I believe what GB was saying was that there are many things that make a rifle shoot the way it does.  Free floating a barrel is not always the answer.  Remington has been using pressure bedded barrels for many years and their rifles have usually done well in the accuracy dept..  Also I believe GB said you should remove the pressure on the side of the barrel but perhaps free floating was a bit much.  Free sloating and pillar bedding have become a sort of mantra in the search for a better shooting rifle.  Neither was really done to make a rifle shoot better!!  The real reason to free float a barrel is to eliminate the movement that may have occured as the wood of the stock absorbed and released moisture..  Now every guy with a gun decides its the road to one hole groups and it usually doesn't help.  Pillars were developed to stop the compression of the wood between the action and the bottom metal which occurs over time.  Once the rifle shoots really well then to avoid the bedding 'going sour' or changing with time pillars are installed and the bedding should last nearly forever.  They were not intended to 'accurize' a rifle..  The bedding should be taken care of, the load developed or a factory load found that shoots well and perhaps even the barrel recrowned(I've seen a lot of really poor crowns the last few years) before we get more drastic. Free floating a sybthetic stock is sort of strange to me.  The synthetics don't really move all that much(at least with the good ones) so why did you free float the barrel. Pressure bedding helps control barrel vibrations and controlling or making them more alike is a real step to good accuracy.  If your interested in how your rifle might perform with the barrel free floated a caard shimunder the action in the front will give you that condition and be easily removed.  Actually many rifles prefer to have their barrels bedded tight full length.  It really damps the vibrations..  I've a 300 Winchester down that way and it never moves point of impact from year to year and shoots most reasonable loads with the same bullet into the same group.  Most high dollar european rifle will have their barrels done this way.  To properly pressure bed a rifle require the action be first bedded correctly and solidly.  This will allow pressure on the barrel to not effect the action bedding.  Only then can pressure be applied to the barrel and it's affect evaluated..  There are 2 instances where a floated barrel may be an advantage, in military rifles where large numbers of shots must be taken without POI changing and in varmit guns that may be used in prairy dog towns, another high shot volume situation.  Even in those situation though great care must be exercised or too many shots too fast will eat a barrels accuracy very quickly.  You've not harmed the rifle. if it's not shooting to your expectations the place to start is with action bedding, crown, load developement, trigger tuning, etc...  You may even, after finding a load that works well in your rifle, want to try putting pressure pads temporarily back to see how they affect the accuracy..  The only other thing I noticed was you said your groups were around 1.5 inches and a few were under an inch. What changed?  Different load? Different brand or bullet weight??  What?  When I find someone with some good groups and some not so good I usually suspect the shooter.  The human is usually the weakest link in the accuracy chain.  Tune the trigger and learn proper bench technique, and put in some trigger time..  If groups are fairly even and just vary in size, it's usually some type shooter error..  Lastly please understand, you bought the cheapest rifle remington makes, a synthetic stocked(blue steel?) ADL and 1 inch groups ain't all that bad..  Try the rifle and if it has some problem you would like help with we'll be more than happy to help!  One last notem before I end this monster.  The 22-250 is one of the rounds I've personnaly had the most trouble getting great accuracy from.  The 222 and the 220 were usually the easiest and the Hornet the worst..  To get a rifle to sub one inch all the time will take a bit of work!
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Offline George Foster

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2004, 12:42:14 AM »
hylander,

I wouldn't necessarily say you screwed up big time, I own light barreled sporters with some being Remingtons.  My rifles have the actions glass bedded with about 2" of the barrel bedded also and then the barrel floats.  My 22-250 shoot five shot groups of 3/4" or less if I am shooting well with my loads.  I use 55gr Sierras with H380 powder.

I agree with the others that sometimes a rifle shoots better with a pressure point but it has been the experience of a lot of people that they  lots of times shoot best free floated.  If you need a pressure point you can always put one back in with fiberglass bedding.  I don't believe the synthethic stocks Remington uses are that stiff so it may be best to float the barrel in your rifle.
Good Shooting,
George

Offline hylander

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2004, 07:51:45 AM »
Thanks for the Replies:
First the trigger is tuned, 3lb. Crisp.
The action is very tight in the stock.
Next It is not the shooter, while I am not a pro I am a seasoned shooter with lots of time behind the trigger.
All but my Military rifles shoot sub MOA all the time, Even my Mini-14
shoots MOA most of the time.
Next there was alot of pressure on the left side of the barrel only, the rest of the barrel was floating, so by releiving the prssure on that side
made it free float, so I had no choice.
Next I went to the range today and tested again, it was better but not alot.
Then I added shimms under the forend, light pressure, Better.
I know have groups of about 1" with factory ammo and much better with reload's.
So from here I think I will bed the last 1.5" of the barrel
Again thank's for the input, all comments are welcome.
Failure is not an option
Placer County, Calif.

Offline KYsquirrelsniper

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2004, 05:30:17 PM »
In general, I've had good luck by free-floating barrels on rifles that didn't seem to want to shoot up to par. Of course free-floating doesn't always work and sometimes it makes the problem much worse, but it is an easy thing to try and it works often enough that it's one of the first things I try when I can't get a rifle to shoot like I want it to.

FWIW, both of the sporter barreled Rem 700s I currently own have their barrels floated and shoot better now than they did in factory configuration.
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Offline gunnut69

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2004, 09:40:18 PM »
How many rounds have you put through the rifle?  Have you done and load developement work.  You surely know that as groups shrink the return  for additional work gets smaller.  Sub 1 inch groups with handloads from a low budget factory sporter is not bad!!  Still perhaps cleaning up the crown might help..  some are pretty rough?  I'd bet a bit of load developement would yield the greatest gain..  Perhaps you should also set a goal so you know when it good enough..  Right now it seems to me it just fine for any normal hunting purpose..
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Offline bluebayou

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Free Float Barrel or Not ?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2004, 06:16:11 AM »
I am the "other guy" that Graybeard mentioned in his reply.  I have an ADL Synthetic in 308 and I floated mine too.  I figured that if the A Bolt synthetics are floated (father in law shoots it) then why not the Remington ADL?  Everywhere you look people say that free-floating is better.  Well, my personal opinion is that the Remington ADL stock is a piece of junk.  It is pressure pointed at the forearm because it is too flimsy to not be.  The synthetic on the A Bolt that I have seen flex up and down too, but they are stiffer overall.  

Further, my personal experience with my rifle only, is that the stock bends 5 degrees or so when it is bolted together.  I spoke to Remington about the action being hard to insert into the stock also.  When assembling the rifle, I need two hands to squeeze the action into the stock.  Two people at Remington agreed that didn't sound correct, but since I sanded the barrel channel I voided the warranty on the stock.  Wrapping this up......Remington convinced me to return the barrelled action for inspection.  At the factory they decided that the barrel was out of spec and replaced it.  It is due back today via UPS.  I will find out Monday what the good word is from Remington.

I shot 422 rounds through this rifle in a year.  The groups were all over the place, all over the paper and in different sizes with the same lots of ammo.  My vote is to replace the stock.  I will test mine and then I am willing to go $65 for a Boyds laminated.  After that, it goes on the shelf as set of lessons learned.