buffalo classic ladder sight?

[sureshot2040]

i see that smith enterprise offers a ladder sight for the buff
anyone use this sight?
whats your opinion of it??
anyone happen to have a used one to sell??
i just hate to put 150 bucks in one and then not like it
thanks,
sureshot

[Cottonwood]

Sureshot

I'm glad you brought this up... As I have stated in the past the current sights that come with the Wesson & Harrington 1871 Buffalo Classic 45-70 are NOT period correct for the design of the rifle.  The current Williams peep sight on the rear over the receiver is not SASS legal to use.

Basic Rule for Long Range Side Match Competitions
Rear sights must be either open iron sights mounted on the barrel or origanal tang mounted or stock wrist mounted peep sights.  Long range rear barrel mounted sights of flip up ladder type may use peep-hole drilled the sliding of the sight leaf.  An example of this is the various sights used on Springfield Trapdoor Rifles.

Now, I will say it again for those that didn't catch my first posting about this.  When I had conversations with James Garrison who at that time was CEO of H&R 1871 we discussed this in length, should H&R 1871 decide to make standard sights available on future models and that would be to put Period Correct sights on both models.  That SASS and CAS legal Period Correct sights be the ONLY sights available for the Buffalo Classic and Target Model.  At this time no sights came with the Buffalo Classic or Target Model rifles and we discussed at length the best sights to put on both of these rifles.

Its really the pits when someone buys a Buffalo Classic or Target Model and then shows up at a SASS or CAS match only to find out that because their new pride is sporting that ugly Williams none period correct sight that they can't shoot with it.

The only options that you have for SASS matches (saw your post over there) for long range side matches:

1) Smith Enterprise Buckhorn Ladder Sight


2) 1873 Springfield Trapdoor sight w/o windage


3) 1879 Spingfield Trapdoor sight with windage


Or you can order differant period correct barrel mounted buckhorn or ladder sights including the Smith for $10.00 cheaper other Buckhorn Sights are much cheaper at Buffalo Arms Sights  Before the Smith Buckhorn Ladder Sight was available with that base it now has, you would have to have a dovetail cut into the barrel and then you could use any of these other sights you see at Buffalo Arms.

Now if you can also order sights through  Brownells Sights  Its funny how the differant places that stock the Smith sights are cheaper than the price listed at Smith Enterprises for there own products.

All the above sights work very well with a Silver Blade sight that can be pruchased at any muzzleloader supplier for approx $6.50

As my Gunsmith told me, "Jon you have more money tied up in trying out differant sights, than the rifle is worth"  Its called being resposible to the members of what we had at that time the Buffalo Classic Shooting Society and I was in charge of it.  So I found out then and know NOW what will work best for sights on the Buffalo Classic.  There are those that purchase the Buffalo Classic strickly for its coolness factor and never shoot a match wether it be Cowboy Action or otherwise, and they are perfectly happy with the current sights that come with the Buffalo Classic now.  But if you want to shoot SASS or CAS, your gonna have to make sight changes and that is the truth of it.

I hope this helps Pard.

[sureshot2040]

so what do you currently use on your bc?
and do you have any sights that you tried on it and no longer use but still have?? maybe for sale?
and last but not least will that smith sight work with the lyman 17a globe factory front sight that i have??

[Cottonwood]

so what do you currently use on your bc?

I don't have one at presant, I actually gave it to my uncle as a gift.  I'm going to get yet another one and have fun with this one as well.  I might even get an extra barrel for it and have it sighted up with Brass Tube Telescopic Sight since putting an MVA or RHO is out of the question because of pricing, just wish that Brass Tube Telescopic Sight was longer than 18 1/2" and would run the full length of the barrel on the Buffalo Classic.

do you have any sights that you tried on it and no longer use but still have?? maybe for sale?

No I don't have any of the sights I used for testing because I sold them all only keeping what worked the best for me.
 

and last but not least will that smith sight work with the lyman 17a globe factory front sight that i have??

I personally did not like the front globe sight with any buckhorn sight, as they are designed to be used with a vernier soule sight that is mounted on the tang or wrist of the rifles such as Sharps, Rolling Block etc.

I used a Silver Front Blade sight that I got through a muzzleloading supply for about $6.50... You could also get a Beech Combination front sight if you like the hood over post design, these work quite good as well.  It gives you the option of a front blade sight, then with a flip, you have a hood over center post for hunting with.  This is also available at Buffalo Arms Beech Combination Front Sight 3/8th dovetail  As you see sighting up the Buffalo Classic or Target Model has many possiblities for your pleasure.  You can even get them with Windage Adjustable Beech Combination Front Sight which this sight I would recomend, because your Smith Buckhorn Ladder Sight has no windage.

I gave a more detailed posting over at SASS.  When mounting the Smith Buckhorn Ladder sight you will have to test where you want it mounted.  I found out by studying where sights are mounted on ALL rifles what worked best.  Several BC owners have mounted a Smith over the chamber breech, but if you look at a Handi-Rifle in 45-70 the barrel sight is mounted 6.5" out on the barrel.  The Smith sight comes with a base, that has raised the buckhorn sight up, this was done so it would plane out because of the conture of the barrel and bring it up.  If you mount it directly above the chamber breech you will be raising the buckhorn sight up even further.

The sight that I tested this with was a Williams Full Buckhorn sight.  I used the holes that are pre-drilled over the chamber breech and the buckhorn sight had a blur to it, because it was just to close to my eyes for sighting with.  I then had it mounted 6.5" out on the barrel and that did the trick for me.

Then I found the 1879 Springfield Trapdoor sight that has windage, and that is what I finally settled on because the ladder is marked up to 1500 yards

[el_rey_lobo]

I'm not clear on this, but do I have to change out the front sight to be SASS legal or can I change the insert?

[Cottonwood]

No the front hooded globe sight is legal because it is period correct, its just that cheap Williams rear peep sight that has to be changed out with a period correct sight.

The cheapest change out sight is a Williams Buckhorn sight either full or semi buckhorn.  You can obtain these through Brownell's Sporting Rear Sights  These are made by Marbels Outdoors and do work quite well for a $17.00 sight.  These will mount directly over the chamber but really put the sight to close for your eyes and should be mounted out on the barrel.  The other thing is that the white diomand in the center on the sight will have to be blacked out.

You can get the type that only have to be drilled and tapped or you can have a dovetail put in the barrel.  Either way these are very period correct.  If you like the Smith Enterprise sight for the long range ladder then that would be the one to get.

I hope this helps
Jon

[el_rey_lobo]

Do you remember whether the front sight in a 3/8" or .450 dove tail?

I kind of like the idea of a windage adjustable front sight.

Thanks for sharing all your information!

[Cottonwood]

It is 3/8th