Author Topic: A New Toy (Read 1879 times)

Evil Dog · « **on:** December 12, 2004, 02:40:20 PM »

Bought a half scale Napoleon barrel from Hern Iron Works a few months back. 35" overall, 2 1/4" bore with a seamless liner, 150 pounds. Unfortunately time to work on it has been very limited. It is finally starting to resemble a cannon though.

The goal is to fire it's first shot at our local club shoot on the 3rd Sunday in January. Just the way to get rid of wheelweight 2 1/2 pounds at a time.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2004, 02:57:30 PM »

Looks like you could initiate some serious urban redevelopment with that thing!

Looking forward to pictures.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2004, 03:07:43 PM »

When in the back of the pickup it really discourages tailgating.

grape shot · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2004, 03:08:37 PM »

Oh yeah ! Thats what I want. Hope mine comes out half as good looking. Wish now I had ordered larger barrel for my first one. So many cannons, so little time.........

What are you using for elevation wheel ?

Wish I could be there for the first shot.......

Evil Dog · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2004, 04:05:39 PM »

For the elevation wheel, I found a big c-clamp down at Harbor Freight (one of those places that sells mostly cheap import tools). Cut the "C" part off leaving only the threaded section. A 5" diameter brass valve wheel was fitted to it for turning. Not exactly "period" but looks to me like it should work.

Lee1966 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2004, 04:46:12 PM »

Evil Dog are them wheels from the outfit in Oregon?

Man looks good. Gives me hope on a full scale cannon.

I may have to build a 1/2 scale cannon like yours to get a better idea of what I will be getting my self in a full scale cannon.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #6 on:** December 12, 2004, 05:05:06 PM »

Hey Lee.... yes, they are from R&P Trading Co.... although at the time I ordered them they were doing business out of Arizona. Seems a decent wheel to me for the price. Were price not a consideration I would probably have ordered the heavier "cannon wheels". They were bored with a 1" axle hole so lined it with a piece of 1"OD seamless tubing. Using 3/4" steel rod for the main axle, leaves 0.010" play for grease. Seems to work well so far.... the proof will be in the firing though.

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2004, 05:39:23 PM »

If you are shooting a 2 1/2 lb lead ball expect some serioius recoil. Be careful with your loads.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #8 on:** December 12, 2004, 06:29:43 PM »

Hey Double D... Yes, have already given that some serious thought. Have looked at 4 or 5 different references and all pretty much show a maximum powder charge of 3 to 4 ounces of powder for a BLANK load in a 2 1/4" bore. They all say to cut the charge by half when loading a ball. Staying on the lower end of that scale would make my max charge 1 1/2 ounces of powder..... or aprox 650 grains.

If I had an appropriate steel mold I would give serious consideration to casting zinc ball for this particular cannon as it would yield a much lighter ball. All I have though is aluminum molds and fairly thin ones at that. Since the melting temp of aluminum is only slightly above that of zinc I would feel real uncomfortable casting zinc in my current mold.

So....... since we are talking a 2 1/2 pound ball I would cut that max charge even more.... down to around 450 to 500 grains of Fg or Cannon. My current plan is to load charges starting at 200 grains of Fg and work up 25 grains at a time.

You see any significant flaws in this plan?

Fred · « **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2004, 06:36:22 PM »

Evil your cannon looks great. I have one or two questions.

How thick are your cheeks, no, no, not those cheeks but the cannon cheeks, and how are they attached to the axles, I did not see any iron or metal on the cheeks and that worries me esp. if you are going to shoot solid rounds.

If the axle isn't strong enough, it will bend.

If the wheels are too weak they will break.

If the cheeks aren't strong enough the barrel will fly off and end up,
where?

??

This isn't meant to criticize only as a double check for safety

Do it them before they do it to you---FRED...................

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2004, 07:21:53 PM »

Go for it E.D. looks like as good a starting point as any...

What Fred said...My first shoot out of my first mortar was done with a lead slug made from a mould I made shaped like a giant 2.6 inch pellet gun pellet, hollow base and all, weight about 7 lbs.

A rule of thumb for determining max loads for cannons use to be 2 ozs. per inch of bore. 2 times 2.6 is 5.2 ozs. loaded Cannon grade in a proper foil wrapped cartridge and fired away. 20 foot smoke ring went up, the projectile went out of sight with a crack. Kewl!!!! Went over to load the gun for a second shot. The mortar base made of two 2" x 6" oak was broken through the 6 " sides like match sticks.

Later learned the rule of thumb measurment to use on mortars is the powder chamber not the bore. 1 5/8 powder chamber max load 3.25 oz.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #11 on:** December 12, 2004, 07:30:28 PM »

Hi Fred..... Certainly valid concerns. The cheeks are 1 3/4" thick, 11" tall and 16" long (can you say 2 by 12's?). The "top cap" is 2 1/2" tall and bolted in place with 3 half inch bolts that run vertically through the entire cheek piece. There will be a 1/8" thick steel strap running over the "top cap"... I would prefer to use 1/4" but just don't have the facilities to bend it. The trunnions are set into 2 3/8" OD seamless tubing which are then clamped into the wood cheeks. The cheeks are secured to the tailpiece with 3 half inch bolts... a 3/8" thick wood washer/spacer between cheek and tailpiece on each side on each bolt.

The axle is a 3/4" steel rod dadoed into a 4x4, the remainder of the dado being refilled with similar wood after the rod is set in place. There is a 1" OD seamless tubing bushing in the wood hub of the wheel... 0.010" available for grease.

As I mentioned before, I am planning on keeping the charges on the lighter end of the spectrum. Charges will all be plastic bagged and foil wrapped. Will probably have to add enough corn meal or fiberglass insulation to make them 2 to 2 1/2" long..... I figure that it will be much easier to load them that way. Ignition will be with Visco fuse.

The balls are cast from wheelweight in a 40oz cannon ball fishing weight mold... right at 2 1/4" diameter. They will easily roll from front to back in the barrel when elevated to approx 5 degrees so windage shouldn't be a problem.

I totally agree that safety is the first consideration.

Fred · « **Reply #12 on:** December 12, 2004, 08:06:50 PM »

Feel much better now.

FRED

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #13 on:** December 13, 2004, 02:51:34 AM »

Quote from: Evil Dog

For the elevation wheel, I found a big c-clamp

I always admire the ability of people to go find something that works.

Something else you might want to consider ont he next one would be taking a scissors jack apart. They have, as the c-clamp does a good square thread and the matching nut. Available at every 7th yard sale for about $2 to $3.

Will Bison · « **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2004, 10:33:44 AM »

Very cool toy E.D. When you decide to build a cannon you obviously don't waste time about it.

We will await your dispatch and images post test fire of course.

grape shot · « **Reply #15 on:** December 13, 2004, 04:33:35 PM »

Saved again, thanx guys.

C clamps and scissor jacks. Why didn't I think of that......

Ordered Wheels today from R&P and barrel is on the way so easy part is done. Guess I will start on trail first......Gonna have to cut me down a real big tree.......

Double D · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2004, 05:04:56 PM »

I have some white oak 2 by.

Articifer Tom · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2004, 02:57:50 PM »

Hello , New to the forum . Had to register to ask . Whats holding the cheeks to the axle usally three strapes do this very important job.
Elevation screw made from scaffold leveling jack work great acme type thread and cut the nut out of the adjusting handle and hide under fake plate nut attached to top of stock.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2004, 04:02:20 PM »

Articifer Tom

Welcome!
Keep the questions coming! That way we all learn!

Thanks,

Evil Dog · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2004, 06:07:06 PM »

Good question. The tailpiece sits on top of the axle. There are four 5/16" lag screws going through the axle into the tailpiece. As mentioned earlier, the cheeks are attached to the tailpiece with three 1/2" bolts crossways though everything.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2004, 12:42:28 AM »

Quote from: Evil Dog

Good question. The tailpiece sits on top of the axle. There are four 5/16" lag screws going through the axle into the tailpiece. As mentioned earlier, the cheeks are attached to the tailpiece with three 1/2" bolts crossways though everything.

Here's my prediction, based on using lag-bolts to build a few skate-board devices for the neighborhood kids: The lag bolts will work for a while and loosen up over time. Suggest considering through bolts.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2004, 02:56:40 AM »

Hi Cat... Good idea. The first time they show signs of loosening I will replace them with bolts going completely through. Thanks.

Articifer Tom · « **Reply #22 on:** December 15, 2004, 01:51:34 PM »

Those four bolts willnot do it . The cheeks also must be fastened or strapped to the axle . The action of firing a projectile is not straight back force but force downward on the muzzle until it bottoms out against the stock then transfers rearward . This twisting action is what caused many problem among 1841 carriages during the Civil War. Please be careful.
It may be time to find a new friend visit a local metal fab shop . Trace shape full size of contour top of cheeks [heavy tack] weld two 1/4 or 3/8 thick by your width straps together and have them roll it . They do this cold and is pretty simple job , even if they are only close only you will know but when broke apart you have identical pieces that the most important. Axle strapes fab from angle iron ie. 4 or 5 ins. reversed cut and welded to shape { Oh! another new friend , junk yard dealer ].
Thanks for the welcome. I plan on introducing myself on the front page soon.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #23 on:** December 15, 2004, 02:52:28 PM »

Hi Tom... In addition to the three 1/2" bolts running crossways through the tailpiece, the cheeks also have a cutout in the base of them allowing them to set down approximately 2" on to the axle. I'd already planned on adding strapping all the way around the cheeks which would further help secure them to the axle. Have also considered running some lag screws up through the axle into the cheeks for added security. Whatcha think?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #24 on:** December 15, 2004, 03:07:57 PM »

Quote from: Evil Dog

Hi Tom... In addition to .... I'd already planned on adding ....also considered running some lag screws up through the axle into the cheeks for added security. Whatcha think?

I don't think these guys are going to let you build a wimpy cannon!

Evil Dog · « **Reply #25 on:** December 15, 2004, 04:43:42 PM »

It does rather seem that way Cat. Sooner or later I am going to have to start looking around for a small trailer... that would be much easier than lifting it into the back of the pickup every time I want to go out and play. Now if I can just find a goodly supply of 2 1/4" wiffle balls.

Articifer Tom · « **Reply #26 on:** December 17, 2004, 01:40:04 PM »

Sounds better , any way you can anchor to the axle will help . The amount of strenght needed will be determined by use and load, check repeatily . Even spec built guns loosen up after shooting . But be warned most shooting organizations ie AAA , NSSA or reeactment groups willnot let any thing without through bolt, top strap, cheek to bottom strap shoot.

Lee1966 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2004, 04:09:02 PM »

Evil Dog how do you like that Napoleon barrel from Hern Iron Works? I am thinking of making the 3 hour drive up there and picking one up from them.

Evil Dog · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2004, 12:34:30 PM »

Hi Lee.... Before making a 3 hour drive I would first call them to make sure that they actually had in stock what you are looking for. When I ordered my barrel from them it was another couple of weeks before it was cast.

As to the barrel itself, I really have no complaints at this time.... of course I haven't actually fired it yet. I did have some concern about it being a bit on the thin side, but they assured me multiple times that is is safe to fire.

Will find out for sure around the middle of next month when it will go boom for the first time.

Lee1966 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 19, 2004, 01:33:19 PM »

Evil Dog I am going to call them forsure, as there web site has been down for a few days now. I am going to call them on monday the 20th.
Thanks for letting me know.