Author Topic: Fox news related a news item the other night... (Read 2206 times)

ironglow · « **on:** December 13, 2004, 03:47:25 PM »

Seems there was a well known, very important "cleric" in Saudi Arabia that has been carrying on a rant about how young Saudis should be eternally ashamed of themselves..
They should be ashamed because they are not volunteering in droves to be suicide/homicide bombers!
Well, it seems his own son took him seriously, left a note, and ran off to join a suicide squad.

The firebrand "cleric" immediately got hold of an old buddy that works for Saudi intelligence. That guy went out, found the son and brought him home; wherepon the courageous cleric locked the boy away...

Ok for other's kids to self immolate...but not the elites...LOL

big medicine · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2004, 04:37:26 PM »

The sad part is that these idiots are too stupid to realize they are nothing more than canon flodder for some POS like that.

FWiedner · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2004, 05:36:11 PM »

.

This tale could just as easily apply to the son of any rich man or politician in this country. As an example, there seems in my opinion, to be a real shortage of Ivy-League graduates enlisting for military service at their father's insistence and with their parents blessings.

As to the use of young people as cannon fodder by wicked old men, one need not look far to discover the same situation on both sides of any conflict.

Young fools are more often than not, the willing and unwitting puppets of old fools.

IntrepidWizard · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2004, 05:48:00 PM »

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

We are NOT going there. GB

williamlayton · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2004, 11:37:35 PM »

HEHEHEHE.
Blessings

Hooker · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2004, 07:38:37 AM »

That works for me, wipe out their support every man, woman, child and cockroach.

Pat

williamlayton · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2004, 10:47:25 AM »

think thru that hooker, this is not a movie.
Blessings

ironglow · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2004, 12:34:59 PM »

FW....
I take a bit of exception to your comments!
Those of us who have loved ones in service to OUR COUNTRY ( not some half-baked mid-eastern dictatorship), don't consider our loved ones as "cannon fodder".

Seems there was a young man just a few months ago that gave up a multi-million dollar career to serve and was killed in the process...Patriotism is more important to some than football $$$.

Yes, some of the elites do worm out of their duty...simply because they have not a drop of "warrior blood" flowing in their veins...

Even some who are NOT elites have a hard time understanding why a young man (or woman) would serve and risk their lives simply for the ideals of freedom, patriotism and gutsy adventure.... Those that cannot understand, undoubtedly have litte warrior blood coursing through their souls either..

To these I say...they have to live with themselves; particularly now, when even little women are serving their country in harm's way.
They will have to live with themselves from now on...knowing that many women were more courageous than they...

I and many here can surely remember when they were young soldiers, sailors Marines etc..

I can remember back those many years when I first revved up the engine of my tank! How proud and excited this 18 yr old was!

For these veterans, the pride, the Esprit-de-Corps and challenge won't be forgotten.
Just because some were cowards and wormed out, that doesn't dim our proud memories...

We live in a nation that is not perfect...but it is the best on THIS earth:
and for those who don't understand, I would like to quote Sir Walter Scott:

" Breathes there a man with soul so dead, that in his heart he has not said ' this is my country, my native land'..".

Hooker · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2004, 12:49:50 PM »

Neither was 9/11 a movie. These people want us dead and they are willing to kill them selves to do it. We can cuddle them and they will keep come or we can destroy them and those that support them. They can't exist with out support. :evil:

Pat

FWiedner · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2004, 01:59:23 PM »

IG;

You can take exception to whatever your heart dictates, the point is that it's hypocritical to a point of stupidity to point at a man on one side of a conflict and say "look at this elitist blow-hard" and then to refuse to acknowledge that exactly the same thing happens routinely on the opposite side, just because it's your favored side.

I did not speak to, nor did I refer to anyone's loved ones or commrades as cannon fodder, I suggested that it is not an unusual situation that finds wicked old men using gullible young men as cannon fodder. Further, I suggested that young and old fools alike take willing advantage of this lop-sided arrangement to deplete the ready supply of whatever generation of young men may be available at the time.

Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

It's the meaning of "is".

ironglow · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:14:51 PM »

FW;

I refuse to put patriotic young Americans in the same league with fanatic suicidal spawn of terrorists!!!
Nor will I refer to our courageous, clear thinking, volunteer troops as "young fools"!!

Somehow you seem to be trying to construct a "moral equivalence" between the USA and the dictator-run terrorist states...shame!!

As far as my comments about patriotism, Esprit-de-Corps and youthful elan....some folks will never quite "get it"...I would hope that you're not one of them!!

RaySendero · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:32:52 PM »

Quote from: FWiedner

This tale could just as easily apply to the son of any rich man or politician in this country. As an example, there seems in my opinion, to be a real shortage of Ivy-League graduates enlisting for military service at their father's insistence and with their parents blessings.

.....

FW,
Trying to compare Americans to these crazies was stupid!

FWiedner · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:50:35 PM »

Quote from: Ironglow

"Nor will I refer to our courageous, clear thinking, volunteer troops as "young fools"!!

Somehow you seem to be trying to construct a "moral equivalence" between the USA and the dictator-run terrorist states..."

I have not done either of these things.

FWiedner · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:58:36 PM »

Quote from: RaySendero

Quote from: FWiedner

This tale could just as easily apply to the son of any rich man or politician in this country. As an example, there seems in my opinion, to be a real shortage of Ivy-League graduates enlisting for military service at their father's insistence and with their parents blessings.

.....

FW,
Trying to compare Americans to these crazies was stupid!

So Ray, you're telling me that there are no potential service-members benefiting from their daddy's position or influence to avoid service?

I don't see either of those Bush girls being herded toward the nearest recruit-training facility.

ironglow · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2004, 04:39:23 PM »

FW...

Pleeeaase...... get your prescription refilled!!!LOL

RaySendero · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2004, 04:40:50 PM »

Quote from: FWiedner

So Ray, you're telling me that there are no potential service-members benefiting from their daddy's position or influence to avoid service?

I don't see either of those Bush girls being herded toward the nearest recruit-training facility.

FW,

If you really think that's what I was trying to convey then .........

You not only wrote something stupid you are acting stupid!

powderman · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2004, 04:58:32 PM »

I feel sorry for these suicide bombers in a way.They've been lied to all their life. Blow yourself up, murder Jew babies, go to heaven where 72 virgins await your beck and call. Imagine their horror as the open their eyes in hell. POWDERMAN. :x :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2004, 05:56:51 PM »

Quote

FW...

Pleeeaase...... get your prescription refilled!!!LOL

Yes indeed. Please do. I'm sure you have a point FW but you are hiding it from the rest of us rather well.

williamlayton · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2004, 10:06:20 PM »

I can see some of FW's and find some truth to it.
I remember the well known quote from WWII, a German lad exclaimg "whose side is GOD on?"
I can remember my ol pard LBJ sending a lot of cannon fodder to Viet Nam. Now boys fore you jump too high--Those boys were top notch, served well and well, left a lot of mothers heartbroken, children orphans and wife's as widows for---in my opinion, not much to do about nothing, ceptin the almighty dollar and LBJ's pride.
Blessings

ironglow · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2004, 03:47:39 PM »

William;

One question:
Who is God;... is He the God of Abraham and Isaac..the one who gave us his son....
or is Allah ..God...as the suicide bombers say..?

" He that is not with me, is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad". said by Jesus ( Matt 12:30)

williamlayton · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2004, 11:42:59 PM »

Glow-
He is the God of Abraham.
Blessings

ironglow · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2004, 11:17:24 AM »

William;
I also specified the God of Isaac and the God who gave us his son( became flesh for us)...and did it intentionally...

The homicide bombers could claim Him as the God of Abraham....but would shy off calling Him the God of Isaac or the God become flesh in the form of JESUS!!!

The terrorists despise the concept of a triune God...

Dali Llama · « **Reply #22 on:** December 18, 2004, 05:08:48 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton

I can remember my ol pard LBJ sending a lot of cannon fodder to Viet Nam.

Dali Llama suggest that williamlayton may wish to choose his friends more wisely. :-)

XxMerlinxX · « **Reply #23 on:** December 18, 2004, 12:19:45 PM »

Ironglow, I don't understand how you can say that elitists worm their way out of doing their duty. For you to be able to make that statement justly, there would have to be something for them to worm their way out of, like a draft. This is not the case however. Are you saying that anybody who doesn't willingly go and enlist doesn't have "a drop of warrior's blood" in them?

And as for wiping out a suicide bombers family.... What the hell??? That's murder, plain and simple, any way you wanna slice it. That'd be like murdering the entire family of a serial killer here in the states. How on earth could you justify something of that nature?

How did we end up at this point?

ironglow · « **Reply #24 on:** December 18, 2004, 04:10:35 PM »

XxMerlin....

Do a quick recheck...I didn't say ANYTHING about wiping out a homicide bomber's family...
You must have gotten that somewhere else...

Insofar as the term about "Elitists worming out"...look back carefully at my post...
I opined about elitists (and others) that have a hard time understanding why a young man (or woman) would volunteer for a warrior's job!

Many of us who are contributing to this forum did just that as young men!
I even went on to attempt to relate how I was thrilled as a lad of 18 when first I revved up "MY" tank...
Many others undoubtedly felt that way with their first grenade, mortar or .50 cal...

The "elitists" I was referring to are the ones who wrap themselves in the first article of the Bill of Rights and try to destroy the second...they do stupid things then demand "their rights"...the elites that thought that Kerry's "Benedict Arnold" game in 1971 was "courageous"....etc...etc..

I don't say that everyone MUST serve....someone has to stay home and flip burgers or contribute to the economy...

I have however, little time or use for those who take advantage, sometimes extrordinary advantage, of our Constitution...but are too cowardly to defend it!!
They ought to be first to defend it, since they wrap themselves in it most often..

It is the elitist cowards that I don't like....and it is not surprising that they will never understand the "warrior's blood" that I spoke of....

It is like an old hen , trying to figure why a rooster seems so daring...

Right now, only an individual himself knows if he "wormed out"when he could have served.
Many young WOMEN are serving ...but that is a fact one has to face as time goes on..whether he was right or not...

XxMerlinxX · « **Reply #25 on:** December 19, 2004, 03:44:26 AM »

To clarify, I wasn't directing the second part of my post at you, just thought I'd touch on that while I was at it.

I guess just what gets me is that I see stuff like "someone has to stay home and flip burgers" and it hints that those that are in the army are better than those that stay home. Maybe I'm wrong though, but I think it carries that undertone to it.

And in my honest opinion, if someone (elitist or not) who tries everything within their power to get out of the army, does, good for them. If they were that set on getting out, then they didn't need to be there in the first place. They could have screwed something up and gotten one of my friends killed over there. Better to get the "cowards" out than to force them to do something they could screw up and make worse.

ironglow · « **Reply #26 on:** December 19, 2004, 10:08:31 AM »

Merlin;
You have hit upon the reason I am opposed to the "draft"...even though my first hitch was as a draftee (voluntary draftee).
At 18, I figured 2yrs was a better trial run than 3 years...

Generally, there is no point forcing someone to serve if they are going to be useless at it.
I'm NOT saying that all draftees are useless...after all, " I was one"; but there is a sizeable element that do not have any appreciable amount of "warrior blood".

Once they are in, they should finish their enlistment. They don't have to be in a critical spot...there are mundane jobs to be done also..mow lawns , walk the Colonel's dog, paint fences etc....

Those who serve "better" than others...? Not necessarily...but we should make sure they are "better off"; in that they should carry extra privileges..

I have never understood why ALL govt and bank employees get VETERAN'S DAY off with pay..
As far as I'm concerned, the only person that should get VETERAN'S DAY off, should be VETERANS...
As it is now, most veterans have to work while bank tellers, teachers (without regard to their veteran status),and yes, students get VETERAN'S DAY off!

That's ka-ka!!

FWiedner · « **Reply #27 on:** December 19, 2004, 02:24:37 PM »

Quote from: ironglow

Merlin;

Those who serve "better" than others...? Not necessarily...but we should make sure they are "better off"; in that they should carry extra privileges..

I have never understood why ALL govt and bank employees get VETERAN'S DAY off with pay..
As far as I'm concerned, the only person that should get VETERAN'S DAY off, should be VETERANS...
As it is now, most veterans have to work while bank tellers, teachers (without regard to their veteran status),and yes, students get VETERAN'S DAY off!

That's ka-ka!!

Why should a man garner extra privilege for doing something that he has a moral and societal responsibility to do?

A man should do service without regard for, or expectation of, reward.

What profit is there in harboring such ire for fellow citizens when they celebrate the service of their countrymen, or exercise the freedoms that some dedicated serviceman's service made possible?

I can't say that I see any benefit to raising men who simply do the job that they volunteered to do to an exalted status above that of their fellow Americans who work equally hard to contribute to the success and benefit of their country.

Would that not qualify as creating a class of nobility? Would the term "Veteran" not become a "title" to distinguish these particular men above other men?

Doesn't seem like a prudent path to be set upon.

Compensation for service rendered should be fair and honestly earned, but if a man expects more, it's hard to see him as much more than either a whiner or a fortune hunter.

XxMerlinxX · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2004, 05:23:32 PM »

Well said.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #29 on:** December 20, 2004, 08:49:05 AM »

Quote from: XxMerlinxX

Well said.

Yep, that ol' FWiedner can sometimes be quite a silver-tongued devil, comment Dali Llama... :-)