Author Topic: Why do they knock the Handi? (Read 2962 times)

tazimna · « **on:** December 16, 2004, 06:30:40 AM »

Still looking to buy my first handi rifle. Went to another local dealer here today to enquire about them. Sure seem to be getting the "stay away" story from them concerning these guns. Granted I believe the "you get what you pay for" line on products, but sure have enjoyed reading all the positives about them here on this forum, so I feel they should be a respectable weapon. So then does most everyone here give a thumbs up on the handi rifles. And do you feel some gun dealers have a negative biase towards them due to cost,quality, oe whatever? Taz

Mac11700 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 16, 2004, 06:42:23 AM »

A couple of reasons...why should they want you to buy a Chevy...when they can get you to buy a BMW.....their profit margins are much higher on most other guns than they are with a Handi...and they hate trying to compete with Walmart...

Another reason is ignorance...I'm sure you've seen some of the bad-mouthing that's gone on about the Handi.at other places...but here we know these fine little rifles for what their worth...and how great they can shoot...

I wouldn't worry to much about what the Na-Sayers tell you about the Handi's...they don't fully appreciate our community here or our rifles...but we know different...

Mac

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2004, 06:58:17 AM »

I also think you'll find a common thread with most of us on this site, We all like to tinker around with our firearms. People who want something to shoot perfect right out of the box maybe won't like a handi. The price and ease that they can be worked on makes them perfect for those of up who want to play with diffrent cals and make simple or complex changes to our firearms and enjoy our hobby more than just pulling the trigger. I have 5 recievers and sevral other barrels, more on the way, I am Bob I'm a Handi-holic.

v8r · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2004, 07:05:09 AM »

The whole reason they bad mouth them is because they probably want you to buy a more expensive bolt action like a browning or remington.I have several and for the most part never have had any problems.I can say my handi's and single shot rifles seem to be lots more accurate than any of the bolt actions I have owned.I think they should sell you what you want and be glad about it.They should keep their comments to themselves,everyone likes something different.Most of the people that knock single shots can't shoot anyway.I have out shot my buddies lots of times with my .223 UV who think Browning makes the baddest gee wiz rifle on the planet.When you can shoot half inch groups with a rifle that is less than half of what you pay for one of those (SUPER DUPPER RIFLES) than that speaks volumes of what a NEF or H&R rifle is worth. :? I'm off my soapbox now.

DanielWGriggs · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2004, 09:27:22 PM »

Yea what he said.

Greybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2004, 09:47:50 PM »

OR it could only be they are having a hard time getting them and are trying to switch you to something easier to get.

Was talking with my dealer the other day and he told me those NEFs sell like hot cakes WHEN HE CAN GET THEM. But he can't get near enough of them to supply the demand thru his shop. He orders all the distributors will allow him and they sell out early and then he seems unable to get enough more to supply demand he says. If he could get more he could sell more.

Duce · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2004, 01:14:28 AM »

Good People: Many small shop owners also dislike selling/stocking something that the big chainstores/Wally World carry. Many times these stores will offers rifles for less than a private shop owner can buy them wholesale. Of coarse we the faithful of the firearms disciplines, try to buy from the small shop owner whenever it is possible and economically possible. The reason is that we all know the pressure that the government and anti's can put on the bigger chainstores. I remember when K-mart had racks full of surplus Mausers and Garands still in the cosmoline. Those Were The Days: :grin: <>< Duce:

jeff223 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2004, 02:24:52 AM »

maybe its the part of the country where you live.here in Michigan where i live they sell very good.they are guns for the deer hunter or for the farmer for varmint controll or a gun for a kid for small game hunting it doesnt matter,they sell and they are all around more than what you might think.all the shops have them.maybe not all that nef offers but the NEFs are on the racks.the NEF H&R Ultraslug slugguns are the best shooting and most accurate shooting slugguns around.they will out shoot anything going as far a sluggun is concerned and i mean this.i dont know what makes the ultraslugs shoot so good but they do.must be the right combo or something.they are second to none and under $200.00

Broken-arrow · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2004, 06:58:09 AM »

I've had a .223 bull bbl and a .308. After a lot of tweaking and just the right handloads the .223 shoots OK. The .308 was a POC. :x Call me ignorant but I did the math on that one and I came up with a 50/50 chance of getting a decent shooter. Save your money and buy something you can count on. I probably spent at least $200 in ammo alone,( and I reload) not to mention all of my time, before I was even remotely satisfied with the .223. I could've bought a Savage, Howa, Field grade Mauser or even a synthetic ADL and had something I could trust. I'm sure others have had good luck with Handis, but when I buy a hunting rifle, I don't want to feel like I'm rolling the dice. I'm sure I'll catch a lot of flack over this but you asked for opinions and that is mine. And I'm not a newbie, I own winchesters, Remingtons , Savages, and others. I know how to reload and I know how to shoot. So you can spend your hard earned money however you like, but NEF wont get any more of mine.

Chainsaw · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2004, 07:01:00 AM »

tazimna, I would agree with the mark up on these handirifles as one of the reasons why some retailers shy away from them. That being said we did have one retailer in my area that stocked a fair amount of handi's in the common calibers (30-06-30-30-270-243-223) The rifles sold well but the dealer is now out of business. This dried up for most part, the handi sales in our area.

Another possible reason for the handi being unpopular was the case ejection problem somewhat common among the rimless calibers rifles. The rimmed to my knowledge have not been seemingly affected by this problem. Cures normally involved polishing the chamber and backing off on handloads. I will say that both my .308 and my 30-06 to a lesser extent suffered from this problem. I use my handi's for mainly hunting and have since traded in the problem rifles. My two 30-30's have never had this problem and I enjoy using them. I do believe that the problem has lessened if not been eradicated in recent production. Others here may know more on this. Might make a good "new topic".

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 17, 2004, 09:46:29 AM »

Quote from: Broken-arrow

I've had a .223 bull bbl and a .308. After a lot of tweaking and just the right handloads the .223 shoots OK. The .308 was a POC. :x Call me ignorant but I did the math on that one and I came up with a 50/50 chance of getting a decent shooter. Save your money and buy something you can count on. I probably spent at least $200 in ammo alone,( and I reload) not to mention all of my time, before I was even remotely satisfied with the .223. I could've bought a Savage, Howa, Field grade Mauser or even a synthetic ADL and had something I could trust. I'm sure others have had good luck with Handis, but when I buy a hunting rifle, I don't want to feel like I'm rolling the dice. I'm sure I'll catch a lot of flack over this but you asked for opinions and that is mine. And I'm not a newbie, I own winchesters, Remingtons , Savages, and others. I know how to reload and I know how to shoot. So you can spend your hard earned money however you like, but NEF wont get any more of mine.

Everyone is intitaled to their own opinion...good-bad-indiferent...but I'll tell you this...I have had only 1 H&R rifle that wasn't a good shooter out of the box...with 1 load or another and a few of them have simple been outstanding...and I'm sorry your luck with them hasn't been so good...but you'll find most folks that do have problems with them...either get help here...or simply send them back in and let the factory take care of them...or...they can get real headstrong about it...like ole Fred M...and make them shooters...wither they want to be or not :wink:

Mac

Broken-arrow · « **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2004, 10:13:46 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700

Another reason is ignorance...I'm sure you've seen some of the bad-mouthing that's gone on about the Handi.at other places...but here we know these fine little rifles for what their worth...and how great they can shoot...

This man asked for honest opinions and that's what he got , I know at least 3 other guys that live in the same town as I do that have had the same problem with their handi's,( and it's a very small town) Just because some-one does't agree with you, Does that make them ignorant MAC? :? IMO If a guy wants a rifle to play with and tweak on to see if he can make the thing shoot, by all means buy NEF. But, if he wants a deer rifle that he can pull out of the cabinet once a year and count on to do the job it's intended to do, IMO NEF is not a wise choice. Again, that is my honest opinion, and it's not based on one bad apple.

:grin:

Greysky · « **Reply #12 on:** December 17, 2004, 10:31:48 AM »

I had to tinker with my .243 NEF, along with developing the right handloads for it. But this wasn't a hastle to me. I enjoy my time at the load bench, and at the range.

Besides, I like the appearence of the Handi, as well as the price. But then, I'm a nonconformist who isn't interested in impressing anyone else by blowing what money I have on expensive toys either. :roll:

I'm seriously considering sending the required components of my NEF to the factory to have it fitted with one of the .357 magnum barrels they are supposed to have in stock after the second week of January. My wife enjoys shooting inanimate objects, such as plastic water bottles, with this caliber. But then, who doesn't. :grin:

Sourdough · « **Reply #13 on:** December 17, 2004, 10:36:59 AM »

I tend to agree with the profit margin idea, and ignorance. As I said before I own many 30-06s. Remington's, Rugers, Savages, TCs, and Handi. The Handi is the only one that can compete with my TCR (Thompson Center Rifle) the TCR is a single shot with set triggers, and is extreamly accurate, and expensive. I hate carrying it into the wilderness and beating it up. So I got the Handi. Right out of the box it shot well with factory ammo. I have put an O-ring under the forearm, and worked up my own loads for the three bullets I shoot, and put a good scope on it. That is all I have done. I can hit a clay skeet target at three hundred fifty yards all day long. In fact I have it sighted in for three hundred yards. I can take out a wolf at 600 yards, if it's standing still. If it's running it's sometimes questionable. Our wolves are about the size of an Eastern Whitetail.

TimJ · « **Reply #14 on:** December 17, 2004, 10:39:26 AM »

Broken-arrow
Just curious what the problems were. Not doubting you just wondering what went wrong. Sticking cases, poor groups, misfires, etc......

My .223 works flawlessly other then two stuck cases, but those were early on and it seems to be over that. It shoots good with a cold barrel but does start to spread them after it gets warm but when I hunt it won't get shot more then a couple times a day. Yesterday I shot a .75" group with some 52gr hps in a pretty good wind. Even shot two 45gr Win hps after that to see where they shot in relation to the 52's and they only landed a 1/2" to the left.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2004, 10:44:00 AM »

For the money invested, they are an excellent choice! I'm new to the H&R single shot rifles, but I have a bunch of em and they all shoot great to excellent with nothing more than a good cleaning and some chamber and bore polishing. I don't have the .308W, but I do have the .25-06 which Fred had trouble with, but mine, Hildy's and Mac's and several others have shot great. I also have a .17M2, .204 ruger, .223, .243, .357Max and .45-70 that all shoot great, and a .30-30 that I haven't shot yet, but expect it will do fine, also. All manufacturers make a lemon sooner or later, I've heard more complaints about Rugers than just about every other make out there, and they cost considerably more than the H&R rifles. Look around on several boards, and you'll see there are a lot of very happy handi owners, always a few that had bad luck, but that happens with anything. I don't expect to change your mind Broken-arrow, but your bad experience with one rifle is a poor reason to condemn all of em, particularily when there are shooters here that have had the same type of experience and are not condemning them as you do.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2004, 11:29:39 AM »

Quote from: Broken-arrow

Quote from: Mac11700

Another reason is ignorance...I'm sure you've seen some of the bad-mouthing that's gone on about the Handi.at other places...but here we know these fine little rifles for what their worth...and how great they can shoot...

This man asked for honest opinions and that's what he got , I know at least 3 other guys that live in the same town as I do that have had the same problem with their handi's,( and it's a very small town) Just because some-one does't agree with you, Does that make them ignorant MAC? :? IMO If a guy wants a rifle to play with and tweak on to see if he can make the thing shoot, by all means buy NEF. But, if he wants a deer rifle that he can pull out of the cabinet once a year and count on to do the job it's intended to do, IMO NEF is not a wise choice. Again, that is my honest opinion, and it's not based on one bad apple.

:grin:

Ok Broken Arrow...you want to play semantics...fine...let's look at what he ask shall we...

Quote
And do you feel some gun dealers have a negative biase towards them due to cost,quality, oe whatever? Taz

The ignorance is coming from a few disgruntled people on the other sites I'm talking about...the ones I'm speaking of are those who really don't give any explanation of "Why" they can't get their rifles to shoot... who would rather generalize them all into one group...P.O.S...or as others have called them P.O.C...or boat-anchors pry-bars and a few other well chosen names...as too the other dealers...who tell customers to stay away from them...this is ignorance on their part...mainly because they could have repeat business with the Handi's...and because as most of us here on this forum know them as good dependable firearms...otherwise... if they weren't...I sincerely doubt this forum would be heret...

Honest opinions?.. Ok....did you explore all the options with your 308 barrel...no...you didn't...you choose to sell it and then call it names...you could have sent it back...but you were afraid they would do something to the receiver if I remember correctly...and time will tell if it can be made to shoot...or not...and just because you have 3 friends somewhere who all have the same exact problem...you think this a true reason to call the rifle junk??? I can honestly tell you bud...that there are far more folks here that love these little rifles...and have had no-where near the amount of problems that you elude to...and open empty statements like this is something you yourself don't care for...am I not mistaken?

Did you read my next post...or ...did you just read into it... what you seem to wanting to hear..... Ignorance of facts isn't the end of the world...and can be corrected. and calling someone ignorant...isn't necessarily a bad thing.... most of the problems we have incountered with our Handi's can be corrected with a few simple solutions...and until a person is aware of this...he/she is ignorant of the solutions.......... and to your opinion...that's why I said what I said...
Quote
Everyone is intitaled to their own opinion...good-bad-indiferent
...but apparently you are wanting to split hairs here...

I strongly urge you to stop reading something into what I write...and take the time to really read what's posted...and not take things out of contex...

Mac

Hildy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2004, 12:11:08 PM »

I think they get bashed because they are considered to be more of a 'truck gun' or 'farm gun' rather than a pretty stocked, etched reciever, custom. A guy I know has a $1200 Weatherby that my $250 25-06 Ultra will shoot with and better. I have never seen him hold a nice group with that gun and he is a good shot.

I will agree that the Handi is NOT the gun to buy if you want people to praise it for the looks. They are definately not a nice Cooper or Anshultz but they hold thier own.

With the performance I am getting from my current Ultra, I wouldn't think twice about getting another. I was thinking about a 204 Ruger, 223, or 22-250 in the Handi as a matter of fact. But then again, I just noticed a Remington 700 VSSF up the gun shop :wink: That sure would look nice in my safe

JPH45 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 17, 2004, 12:22:55 PM »

I have four of these things, and have a love hate relationship with every one of them. To put that in perspective, I have owned 19 different rifles in the last 20 years.Winchesters, Remingtons, Rugers and Browning. Of those rilfes, there were only two that I had a pure love relationship with, a Browning 1885 in 45-70 and a Winchester 94 in 30-30. Those two rifles would shoot anything into 2" or less all day long. They wee not finicky about ammo, bullet weight, bullet velocity or anything. The shot and shot and shot. I have always regretted having to part with them. My NEF's? I have not yet been unable to find a load they would shoot. I've pulled my hair out with cast in the 357, 44 and 30-30, but each of them settled down and acted predictably as soon as I shot jacketed bullets in them. The question wa not "can I find a load" rather it was "what load do I want to shoot."

Cruise arond on other sites, even other forums here. Every maker out there has problems with their rifles. Sako is even recalling a group of rifles because of barrel ruptures. How's that for a defect? Several here have had trouble with a rifle,and in every case NEF has made the rifle good, or refunded them their purchase. You can't ask for more than that.

Fred M · « **Reply #19 on:** December 17, 2004, 12:57:31 PM »

tazimna.
There is a lot of truth in what has been said. I am a precision shooter and have some extreamly fine shooting rifles most of them custom build.

Now why would I bother with an Handi? A very goood qurstion. I just spend more on a Handi conversion, for a caliber I like, than the price of a new one. Man I must be dumb?

I tell you why. I like single shot rifles. There are many types, most very expensive and most of them don't shoot much better than a Handi. The exceptions are the massive falling block actions, but these don't shoot so good either until you do all sorts of things to them.

Here again no different from a Handi. but the price.

One thing I know for sure is the design of the handi action is simple to a fault, screwed up a bit by lawerers become manufactures mouth pieces.

Further the concept of the action is very sound too. So when you put all this into one sack you get a rifle that is easy and cost effective to make.
If the company wants to make some money they can't be too fuzzy.

Therefore you do a bit of tweaking yourself if you can. Which is fun to do on a Handi and can mostly be done with hand tools. What more can you ask from a resonable priced rifle. Ah, I know there are few bad ones just send them back, it is an inconvienience but that is part of the low price.

Just go and get one, never mind what unknowledable people say.

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2004, 01:39:19 PM »

I have 2 Handis, a 357 that I have reamed out to Rem Max, and a Buff Classic that I have had throated for cast boolit use. I am waiting for the 500 Smith to come out to make my third. Both of my present Handis will shoot just as well as my Ruger 77 MkII in 30-06. I have yet to take game with either of them, but I have every confidence that when I pull them out of the safe they will put the bullet in the boiler room every time.

When you put your money on the table for an NEF Handi, you have to keep in mind that you are not buying a work of art to be ooh'd and ahh'd at on the mantle, but rather a hunting tool that will have you standing in the front of the freezer ooohing and ahhhing instead. Also keep in mind that to do that work, you don't need a rifle that shoots half inch groups all day long. Half inch groups are nice but realistically all you need is a rifle that will shoot a 4" group at the range you intend to hunt at. An eastern whitetail's vitals cover about an 8" circle.

Ian

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2004, 02:24:30 PM »

Yeah, what Haywood said. These ain't works of art. They are tools. And they are mostly good at what they are made for. Sure you can get a bad one once in a while. When you do you have three choices. You can sell/trade it and make it someone else's problem. You can send it back to the factory and they WILL make it right. Or you can go into Fred M. mode and make it right yourself. I have owned and do own several H&R/NEF rifles and shotguns and I have yet to find one that I couldn't make into the gun I wanted it to be. But I have noticed at the range that the #1 problem with NEF shooters is that they tend to shoot to fast, without giving the barrel time to cool down. This is almost never a problem hunting.

joe527 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2004, 02:27:01 PM »

I only have one handi in center fire, it is an H&R Ultra Varmit in 22-250. I've had the rifle for 13 or 14 years. It has always functioned and ejected properly with factory ammunition. It will .750 c-to-c five shot groups at 100yds. with winchester supreme right out of the box. Not great but plenty good enough. When I started reloading is when I ran into ejection problems, I have a custom 22-250 built on a winchester action and shilen match barrel that i also was reloading for. Now this gun weighs in a 14.5 lbs. with the scope so it is know walk around gun which is why i bought the Handi. Anyway, to fix the problem I polished the chamber and purchased a new set of RCBS SMALL BASE DIES, problem fixed. I load Berger 52 gr.bullets at 3700fps for the Handi and it will average 1/2 to 5/8ths inch 5 shot groups all day long. If I'm set up on the edge of a big bean or alfalfa field its the custom rifle I use with the 2 ounce match trigger and 1/4inch groups. If I'm on the move though and walking around its the Ultra and shooting sticks and I don't feel the least bit cheated by the experience. I know if i do my part the Ultra will do the rest.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2004, 02:56:42 PM »

Another great thing I've found with these rifles...it is the" Pride Factor"...and I'm sure a-lot of you guys have had it at the range...ya'll know what I mean...when the guy in the next booth is shooting his $1000.00 rig and it's making 2"-3" groups and your putting all in the X-ring......nothing like it when they ask you what your shooting and then they look down and see a single shot Handi and the look on their faces.......priceless....

Mac

lik2hunt · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2004, 03:43:13 PM »

Broken Arrow - I had what was probably one of the worst problem guns ever recorded among this group and the factory refunded to me the total RETAIL cost of my gun plus a full refund for the cost of an extra barrel that was added to it thru them. Pretty good "customer service" if ya ask me. And guess what........I just recently bought another one and have plans of getting more. I have a Huntsman and two SB-1 shotguns besides. You could have made yours into a shooter, I have no doubt about that, it can be done. If you want bolt-gun accuracy and performance then buy a bolt-gun, I did. But............and I mean this from one Okie to another..........you need to give the badmouthing a rest before you either get moderated or booted.

hellacatcher · « **Reply #25 on:** December 17, 2004, 03:44:46 PM »

We are handiholics but not so anonymous. The wife says I have a closet full of N.E.F.s I have only had one that would't shoot it was 280 didn't really try to get it lined out as I had other things to do so the dealer took it back. All of my nefs do what I want out of them and then some like was said it is fun to have one to out shoot a hi dollar gun.

Buckeye · « **Reply #26 on:** December 17, 2004, 04:09:28 PM »

I've always heard " A true rifleman has at least one 94 Win." But I beleive that should be revised to a HANDI !

Big Blue · « **Reply #27 on:** December 17, 2004, 04:11:45 PM »

I think the criticism comes for various reasons, the first being their first impression of the rifle. To be truthful, the first time I saw one, I thought it looked like a cheap POS, and would NEVER buy one. Of course after reading the posts on the old forum, it piqued my interest enough to get me to buy my first H+R rifle. I now have six of them, and really like the looks of them. Of the Marlins, Weatherbys, Remingtons, and Winchester rifles that I either own or owned, my very favorite rifle is my H+R Buffalo Classic. When it came to deer season, the H+R rifle was the one that came with me. One shot, one deer. So as I said, the criticism comes for various reasons, but they all add up to ignorance, elitism, and preconcieved prejudice.
Don

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** December 17, 2004, 04:17:06 PM »

:yeah: What Don said!!!

robin-hood-90 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 17, 2004, 04:18:44 PM »

Sorry if I offended anyone, ( and evidently I did ) But NEF suffers from poor quality control, no-one here can deny that. THAT is why people knock the handis. Boot me if you want , but the man asked a question and he got my opinion,and your's. I don't consider it bad-mouthing Quick, because I have seen more handis that would'nt shoot than would. It's not just from my own experience with one particular bbl. But I'm tired of this thread so you do your thing and I'll do mine.