what about that high fence?

[gcf]

The game animals of this state are supposed to belong to the people of the state .....

Kind of a moot point.  Short of shelling out big $$$ for a "lease", or being invited on to private property as a guest,  finding a bit of public land in this part of the state - even to hunt hogs, is like looking for that needle in the haystack.

Most Texans are big on personal property rights - and rightfully so. A fella makes his mortgage, pays his taxes, pays the upkeep. You going to tell him that he can't fence it? Sounds a little like..... SOCIALISM.

It would be nice if the state would make a realistic effort to provide a little more managed land in productive areas, available to the public.

[markc]

I think some of you guys from Other Than Texas, have the wrong idea about hunting in the Lone Star State.  

Not every ranch is a high fenced operation and not every hunter uses or operates automatic corn feeders.  Some do, and most folks who buy them are mislead as to their effectiveness.  

Not every time  a feeder goes off do deer come to it.  If there is natural browse on the ground or bushes, the deer will rarely approach a feeder. Corn is like candy, but natural acorns is the much preferred food source.

When deer become nocturnal from hunting pressure, they won't be seen at a corn feeder during day light, even if they are using it.  So most of that corn being fed is making squirrels and birds fat for the winter.

There are over 1 million acres of public hunting lands in Texas and for a small fee can be hunted by anyone with a valid hunting license.  Thats alot of land, but then again not that much compared to the size of the state.  

Most land is privately owned and lease costs are going up so high that the average guy can't afford one even when he finds one.  

There will never be an end to the debate over high fences and corn feeders, so to me, even if I don't approve, if it is legal in this state or any other, then I am not going to try to deny another guy the legal right to hunt or shoot as he sees fit.  

I run feeders to keep the abundant feral hogs coming in.  In fact this deer season, we have taken 7 hogs out of the many seen at the feeders in 3 trips to the ranch, and in all of that, only one whitetail doe was seen at a feeder.  Probably because there is a 500 acre green field right across the low fence where the deer are feeding and bedding down.  Poor hogs don't realize how dumb they are.  
:-)  I saw shot more rattlesnakes this season than deer.

[Grubbs]

As a born and bred Texan I must say I'm disgusted with the high-fenced operations.  Any lard-assed lawyer or doctor can go to these places and kill a giant buck, whether the high fence is in Texas or somewhere else.  I don't care how big the ranch is with the high fence, the game is there and cannot possibly get away.  It's just a matter of time before this $7000 buck walks by this lard-ass lawyer in a heated blind and he pops him.  Great "hunting" skill required by the lard-assed lawyer.  As usual with anything, these rich boys drive prices up, up, and away from the average guy.

[gcf]

..... Any lard-assed lawyer or doctor can go to these places and kill a giant buck, whether the high fence is in Texas or somewhere else.......  

.....Great "hunting" skill required by the lard-assed lawyer.  As usual with anything, these rich boys drive prices up, up, and away from the average guy.

Although as stated, I am a strong believer in personal property rights, I do agree w/ you. High fenced spreads coupled w/ mega $$$ leases & "hunts", have made it all but impossible for the average guy to get out & enjoy our Texas heritage.

Question is, if we allow government to stick it's nose up our collective butts w/ private property rights infringements, where will it stop? Do we tell a man that he must allow unrestricted access to his land, by anyone who demands it?

Of course on the other hand, the game belongs to the people of Texas, right?

Personally, I think that a major expansion of the TX Parks & Wildlife property management program would be a big help.

Just to clarify: The extent of my property holdings is a residential lot in the center of town. Self employed & month to month.

A friend from Harlingen & myself, have been trying to find a productive piece of brush to enjoy some low key hog & deer hunting, for some time. Season's all but over & no cigar.

[Grubbs]

gcf...don't get me wrong.  I'm not opposed to the property owner being able to do whatever the law allows him to do on his own land.  I do not want any kind of gov't office or official telling a landowner what he can or cannot do.  I just think the whole high fenced hunting game is a joke.  Keith Warren and these other frauds who film these hunts for TV think they have really accomplished something.  I think they are pathetic.

[trappenjoe]

I don't think your catching my point , first off I work very hard for what I get ,  I have 4 kids to feed so don't tell me I'm lazy. God put those animals on earth as a food chain not a lease agreament some city BOY
chooses to pay ... I'm from New mexico and Montana where the public land out numbers private . I just don't agree with greed of  people. Hunting is a god given right that should be a memory not a dent in your wallet .I looked into yalls millon acers to hunt and I couldn't find them..
What I did find was 10 acers here and 20 acers  50 miles away then so on.. plus it's a draw to see were or when you can hunt ....
You might get some facts before you go to telling someones lazy ...
Little Joe

[Grubbs]

I'm well aware of the rules and regs in Texas....been abiding by them for 32 years.  If you crave public land to hunt you better head back to your New Mexico or Montana.  You can also shell out $200-$900 for out of state licenses in these states depending what you want to hunt.  Yeah it costs money to lease a spot in Texas, but you won't run across more hunters than deer as you may in those other states.  Texas has in my opinion the best big game management system in the country, and has had for years.

[bigbore442001]

I just hope that the whole issue of high fenced hunts and high leases actually cause the demise of hunting. I am not sure if Texas has a great system or not.

I have hunted in Texas twice and got skunked.

[FWiedner]

One can only imagine what kind of hunter another fellow must be when that fellow refuses to put the work in to even find a suitable place where he can hunt the way he wants, blames the "system" and his fellow sportsmen for his inability to successfully take game within the game management structure of the resources available to everyone (where many others are highly successful), and then determines that no one should be able to hunt because of his own lack of fortitude or skill.

Blaming other people with more resources at their disposal for your lack of success is just lame.

People with high fences around their property that might contain a game population don't control the deer herds in Texas.  There are MILLIONS of deer in Texas.

The lease situation is what it is.  Bitching and wishing poor fortune on others won't change it.  If you continue to dwell on that particular irrelevance, the only result will be that you'll be pissed and you won't get any hunting done.  There is public land available, and there is also heavy hunting pressure there.  Deal with it.

Fer Christ' sake, make some friends.  Take a few more days off.  Drive a little further.  Hunt during the week.  Trade some work for a lease.

I'll admit that I don't fill my tag every time I go out in the field, but at least I'm man enough to admit that failure is due to either some lack of preparation, effort, or strategy on MY part.  The guys with the high fences, selling the expensive leases, and the location of the public lands that I usually hunt aren't responsible for MY hunting experience.

I'M one of those regular guys that you keep saying don't get a chance to hunt or can't afford to hunt in Texas.  I buy permits.  I apply for draws.  I drive long distances to scout and hunt new areas.  I make phone calls to TPWD for information.  I use the Internet to find places and things.  Once every few years, I buy into a lease with some buddies.  I plan to hunt.

I hunt in Texas, and I'm not having any problems that I don't create myself.

Sorry if this little rant seems directed at anyone in particular, it's not meant to be, it's just my opinion.

[markc]

"I looked into yalls millon acers to hunt and I couldn't find them.. "

You didn't look very hard then.  It's really pretty simple.  The Texas Parks & Wildlife Department will actually put in your hand a map of public lands in Texas,, and will go so far as to tell you where in that million or so acres is the best hunting for any particular species of huntable animal.  It costs you around $40.00 + your time and expense to get there, and hunt.


TP&WD has a web site.  Go there, click on hunting and look for the links on hunting opportunities and public hunts. There are also a good many drawing hunts you can enter for a chance to hunt many of the State Parks in Texas for anywhere from $3.00 to $10.00.   Not sure you can do that in Wyoming or where ever you came from.  I think most of us get your point.  Maybe you are not getting mine.   Quit complaining and allow someone to give you some advice in making your hunting experience better here.

[Grubbs]

bigbore....If you can't kill a deer in Texas you can't kill one anywhere.  whereabouts were you?  Did you do any research?

[bigbore442001]

I actually didn't hunt deer. While visiting a friend in the San Antonio area, I looked up some advertisements in the San Antonio Express for day hunts for wild pigs.

I hunted back in 1994 in the Artesia Wells area and a couple of years ago in the Rocksprings area .

Basically the area was hunted out and overgrazed.So I learned I'll never go after an ad like that in the paper again. I'll try to get a reference if I go for some sort of hunt like that.

As a rule, I get one or two deer a year in my area of New England. With a sucess rate at around 10% statewide, I figure I am not a complete idiot in the woods.

[williamlayton]

The history of high fencing goes back to the early 50's on the YO ranch, when exotics were introduced. The yo was a commercial ranching operation which was feeling the pinch for cash, when many other ranchers were, because of low prices. The YO's operation brought in the exotics for their own pleasure and for their own profit.
Those who hunted this land paid big dollars, well except for those invited guest, and so began the practice of supplementing income from the game the land could support.
Folks, in those days, hunting deer in East Texas was fruitless because of NO fencing, running dogs and poor game management. The deer were smaller in E. Texas also. All the big deer were on the larger ranches in South Texas. Over hunting was not a problem in this area for several factors, lack of access to the land, and lack of knowledge that this area had a bountiful supply of large deer. Boone & Crockett had not been invented at this point.
If high fencing is a problem with you then fencing and game management is a problem with you. If a landowner over grazes his property with cows it is his problem and the same can be said if he over kills his deer herd.
If commercial use of the land is a problem with you then we have become a socialist state. If you complain that only fat assed lawyers can afford to shoot deer then you have missed the point and do not realize that not everybody can afford to hunt on private property to begin with.
I can't afford it and do not concern myself with it much as I do not concern myself with not being able to afford a mercedes.
If a man owns land and manages it for a living, no matter the herd, it is his living and you do not have free access to his living.
Blessings

[kjeff50cal]

Land owners/managers who high fence or not have to pay a lease fee (tax) to the state of Texas. HOWEVER as to paying property tax on the land..... According to the Houston Chronicle 01/10/05 because of  agriculture/conservation exemptions these land owners pay little (in relationship of land owned) property/school taxes. This exemption was for the small farmer/rancher to keep him/her competitive but the big outfits have taken full advantage of this. Michael Dell of Dell Computers has a 1757 + acre ($75 Million) ranch in the Hill Country & instead of a $1.2 million tax bill, the value of the land is devalued 85% because he has a well managed deer herd!!!

[Grubbs]

Looks to me like Michael Dell is pretty smart.  I'm sure he didn't make the rules...he just plays by them.  One thing I find hard to believe.......he paid $42,686/acre for a ranch in the Hill Country?  I don't hardly think so.  $10,000/acre would be pretty high.

[kjeff50cal]

I've only reported what the Chron stated. Maybe he added some mega-buck (pun intended) improvements :-D .

[cam0063]

Has been an interesting read I must say. I come from Down Under, where private property rights basically don`t exist. I am a Rancher, so this I know all too well - 1st hand. I am not a trphy hunter, but I do hunt. I have visited Texas many times, love the place. It reminds me of how it was once here.

I am also a member of the Exotic Wildlife Association based in Texas. Have visted the famous YO ranch, Indian Head Ranch and many, many other Game Ranches. In fact I have many friends Game ranching with High Fences. I know of the Canned Hunt stories, some were true and some were total fabrication... Is the same in South Africa too. Reminds me a little of us firearms owners here. The acts of a couple dispicable individuals have tarred us with their brush, no matter how law abiding and responsible we are. Thus we have had taken away many of our Firearms and the rights to own and use them. Similar for the credible game ranchers with high fenced operations, paying the price with the ill informed community and due to actions of a small number of individuals...

I wonder how many people have contacted the Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept to enquire as the the state of the "Native" wildlife situation in Texas? My yearly research shows it prospering and more successful than many US states.... Most people I know in Texas, have a hunting lease. I have been offered one or two deer leases over the years and I don`t even live in the US. Guess I must be lucky

I can see many people posted here havenot visited the high fenced ranches of Texas, as there is little, ifnot any information mentioned relating to "Exotics". As a visitor you would straight away notice the vast numbers of Exotic species on high fenced Ranches and that huinting for many of the exotics is not governed by season... All of my friends with High Fenced Ranches have fenced their ranches to enhance breeding operations involving not just Native wildlife, but also Exotic Wildlife ie: Kudu, Eland, Blackbuck, Wildebeest, Gazelle, Ibex, Addax, Waterbuck, Gemsbok, Oryx, Bushbuck, Nyala, Bongo to name just a few... There are more Blackbuck, Arabian Oryx, Aoudad and Nilgai on Texas high fenced ranches than there are in their native homelands... Some of these animals thru high fenced ranching operations have found their way back to their homelands. can that be anything else but a bonus? Some of these animals are free ranging outside of high fenced ranches also. Where else in the world can people see wildlife from all 4 corners of the globe - Texas and it is the High fenced ranchers who enable this! It is also possible in Texas to breed and trade Whitetail if criteria are met and approval given by the Texas Parks and Wildlife dept. This is a strict process to follow. In fact TPWD are very involved with high fenced Native and Exotic hunting operations.

As a guest of South Africas world famous Kwa Zulu Natal Wildlife Service, I have had the pleasure of visiting several of the countries top wildlife reserves, some of these being high fenced. As well as several privately owned wildlife reserves, all high fenced. To quote the leading wildlife conservation people in Africa -" Wildlife must pay their way or else they will not survive. This means tourism and hunting, high fenced and no fenced!!! It was interesting to hear that in Southern Africa, a rule of thumb is - 1 hunter generates the same income as 20 tourists. Many high fenced private reserves use hunting as a breeding management tool and equally as important as an economic tool. Why should Texas be any different??? In Texas you can make upto 4 times the income from wildlife as you can from cattle. If I was there, I know what I would be doing on my ranch!

I have seen the high fenced hunting operations in Texas. I remember one ranch under high fence. I was there for just the day, however I didnot see 1/3 of the species they breed and couldnot get within 800 metters of a Nilgai or an Aoudad Ram. There were numerous Whitetail, all healthy, and they didnot sit on a fenceline waiting to be shot or wait for us to approach in a vehicle. They were gone! It was the same at the "YO Ranch", actually it was the situation on most ranches I have visited in my 5 trips to Texas [& No I am not there hunting - oneday I will]. What I did notice in a year of drought was how poor and scrawny the deer were in the low fenced pastures driving to various high fenced ranches and how healthy the high fenced animals were. Full credit to the feeding and management these people have undertaken at their own expense to have healthy animals! Many business are full or part time hunting operations, so the animals pay their way. If they didn`t, many would not exist. This is a similar scenario across many, many of the high fenced ranches. There are those also who just have wildlife to view for their own pleasure. And then the terrible few who exploit it with illegal and/or unethical deeds. But then these types of people exist in all facets of life and industry - unfortunately... It is up to us to not support them and I don`t! With the majority of Texas land under private ownership, who is responsible for maintaining habitat, feed and health of wildlife, policing the land? Who bears the cost??? Land Owner!!!!

Can I discredit a guy who hunts on a high fenced property where fair chase ethics are followed - hardly, to me, I would feel a hypocrit... I saw a post where a quote was"hunting is our god given right" Well it was here - once, not anymore! We have to fight for it, earn it thru all the, regulations, ignorance, snobery and extremist views of others out there. Be careful, and on guard cause you may be faced with this some day too!

[markc]

great post.  Thanks for the reminder that we should not take the ability to hunt for granted as it could be taken away from us.

[ras308]

Well said cam0063!!!  We need to ban together and not against each other.  There are those out there who not only want to take our guns and hunting away, they want our freedom of speech also!!!  Keep up the great posts.

[cnh1294]

Im not a experience deer hunter but I have to ask! Dont  some of  you trophy buck hunters add to the problem.?
What i mean is ranches raise these monster bucks because they can get you to pay big $$bucks$$ to hunt them.  On a drive through hill country I saw 50-60 Monster bucks standing roadside inside these fences. although they had a rack that looked like two gaint oak trees there body was as big as a german shepard. My point is that obviously you trophy hunters are not wanting meat as much as something to put on the wall and your willing to shoot these mineral stuffed mutants for thousands of dollars. Its a bussiness that you continue to support by chasing that big BUCK! HIgh fences are there for YOU by you!

i have no problem with these business but stop complaining when some of you are the reason they exist.

my opinion now offense intended--enjoy

[bigbore442001]

Yeah. I wonder if trophy hunting will be the downfall of hunting in America. The vast majority of Americans are non-hunters. Most people see nothing wrong with hunting as long as it is for food. But many are against trophy hunting.

We all know that each state has laws against wanton waste of game. But the general public in my opinion doesn't .

Another thing is that this excludes a lot of people who would be supportive of hunting . We need that support lest we get voted out and it can happen.

[dukkillr]

this is exactly why I'm against the high fence hunting.  the chance for bad press is simply too risky.  I saw a video a few years ago of someone shooting a tiger sitting up against a fence, and we just recently had the story out of canada about the guy who shot the elk and deer that weren't afraid of him after believing he was getting a "fair chase" hunt.  I think that story had something to do with a TV host too.  It's hard to convince non-hunters that one type of enclosed animal hunt is vastly different from another.  I'll stick to wild animals.

[bayloralum1996]

sure, in a perfect world deer proof fences aren't needed.  Everybody would respect everybody elses property lines,....no feeders on fencelines,....no 20 acre owners shooting 3-4 bucks every year,......until then Give me a 8 foot deer proof fence or the $4.50 a foot I'd need to have one built!!

[cam0063]

I am not singling out anyone here, this is being relatively general.

If you believe there are people out there in vast numbers, in numbers of any quantity, sitting on a fence who will swing towards supporting the hunter who hunts for meat if trophy hunting and high fenced operations were reduced or erradicated, you really are very mistaken.... You get talking to someone who dislikes trophy hunting or high fenced hunting and I mean really talk with them, you will soon discover the root of their dislike is animal cruelty. The public dislike to hunting is the perception it is cruel and inhumane! "Hunting" is the Target of this belief!

I am a fulltime Rancher. I am involved in exporting Cattle to foreign countries, I am also involved in Wildlife Conservation. I work with and socailise with Conservationists, Greenies, Animal Cruelty groups both here in Australia, South Africa and the USA. There is no vast Public opinion supporting hunting or harvesting wild animals for meat! There will not be a swing of support to hunters if Trophy hunting is reduced or taken away or Game Fences pulled down.... To think so would be nieve to say the least. They want what is termed the Blood sports - outlawed! No matter where you live or what country you are in, they want your pasttime gone - period!!!

Many of you have divided hunting into different camps - Trophy, Meat, Game fence. To reduce or disable one of these camps, be it Trophy or Game fenced operations is a victory to those who want your activities stopped.... To mistakenly believe that Trophy hunting is the greater evil to Meat hunting is a total falacy.... I talked with one of the board of Directors of SCI 4 years ago concerning this and he was in total agreement...

I am not a trophy hunter, I hunt for meat and to erradicate pests. I do however, fully respect a person who trophy hunts. I come from a country which in  terms of dislike towards hunting and the shooting sports is probably 10 years ahead of you. Trophy hunting has not been a big part of our culture, tho hunting for meat was enjoyed by many. Present day - you will not find an actor, actress, singer, any media personel, politician, sporting hero or anyone in the public eye who will publically talk about their hunting interestes or support hunters - Fact! You willnot hear a person talk at a party or at a bar about a recent hunt. You will rarely/if at all, see the media present articles/news segments showing the good hunting brings to the community. We as firearm owners and hunters have little or no support out here, but we are working on it.  Come down here and see for yourself! We hunters and shooters here Down Under are in this as "one" unified group. We have to be or we are finished!

Ranching is facing a very similar situation. A brewing dislike to harvesting domesticated animals for meat. We are very much in the sights of the ever growing public dislike to what they see as animal cruelty. We now have your very strong and influentual group of extremists - "Peta" targeting us. Their support isn`t stagnating or slipping, it is growing! Meat Hunting, Trophy hunting, Ranching livestock, we are being drawn under the one banner. In the extremsists eyes or the person that is against what they percieve is "animal cruelty", we are the source of their dislike and it is growing!

If you guys and ladies can`t band together and continue in this divisional 2 group affair you have in US hunting, you are in real, real trouble!!! For the anti hunting extremists out there, they would take great pleasure in reading the divisions that exist here amongst hunters. Split a group in 2 you have broken the heart/strength. Pick at the edges and they will crumble..................... You guys are already on this path, only some of you and not the Animal Lib Extremists are causing the divisions!

To be a hunter, you must have conservation beliefs and promote this. You must stand as one body or guys - you are finished! Look at the UK and here Down Under if you have any doubts!

[cnh1294]

Your right on alot of what you are saying however there is a diference between meat and trophy. Meat hunters dont ussually spend thousands to harvest and animal. Simply wanting to spend that kind of money basically for bragging rights is what is driving the whole idea of hunting out of existance. Because this will cause ranchers  to breed and manage bigger and better all the time thus driving the price higher and higher to support the expence. where will it stop. This really is basic economics, hunter pays, ranchers are in competition to produce bigger better  thus making a bigger investment forcing them to keep there investment on the property! and VIOLA! HIGH FENCES!

And as far as trophy verse meat ,that is truly an additude thing ,neither is better than the other but "I" beleive a meat hunter is less concerned about the rack on an animal and is more likely to "hunt" for a completely different purpose again its all about that attitude of the hunter and no one is able to measure or determine that.

Again to each their own I however will HUNT for meat  cause them antlers take to long gett'n done on the BBQ!

[cam0063]

Howdy,

Yes, there is a difference between Meat and Trophy hunting and yes - Meat hunters don`t spend the big $$$ on meat animals as compared to Trophy animals.

I cannot remember the exact figures but I think on high fenced ranches with supplementary feeding, continuous management input and updating improved genetics, I believe the approx % of trophy males produced is between 3 - 8 % of the birthrate......  An immature male, a male with damaged horn / antler growth, a low performing male, a doe - these are not priced the same on a high fenced ranch as a trophy male. When you add Conception rate and mortality rate to maturity, the trophy males available each year is not massive...

Approx 6 years ago I believe the figures for Venison harvested Nationally in the US was 11 million pounds. Game Meat [Exotic and Native] hunted from from Texas Ranches was around 2.5 Million pounds... When you add the State owned land too, I couldn`t guess at the figure... Texas has a program called - "Hunters for the Hungry" where venison is distributed to hungry Texas each year. In 1998-1999 hunting season approx 50 000 lbs of meat was provided at no cost to the consumer. Wish I could locate my latest figures. Pretty impressive anyway....

Supply &  Demand etc, etc - Trophy prices are market driven. I have friends who offer trophy hunts on Ranches in Texas, South Africa and Namibia... You can ask any price you like for a trophy anything or any product on the market place. If people aren`t willing to pay, you ain`t going to sell the product...No buyer, No market, no money! The market price will only stablaize at a level where the buyers allow it too. Has been the rule in the South African Hunting Industry for longer than I have known and going by my 6 year figures on Texas and the 10 year figures I saw via the Exotic Wildlife Assoc, is pretty much the norm there too.

At the end of the day nothing is free in this world - Clothing, Boots, firearms or Bows, ammunition, vehicles, Fuel, Corn, Mineral supplements, Parasite drenches, advisory servcies, feeders, drought and blizzard management etc, etc. With 97% of Texas privately owned. The cost of maintaining the Range, the soil, the water sources and water points, the vegetation, what grows on it and what walks on it. High fence or Low fence, who bares the cost??? The land owner! This is the same for all private lands where ever. And in Texas, it isn`t just native wildlife but the vast aray of exotics to manage and all this on private land which comprises 97% of the state. Truley a unique situation and a unique place...

"Simply wanting to spend that kind of money basically for bragging rights is what is driving the whole idea of hunting out of existance." These bragging rights as you say have been around since long before Firearms were invented and long before the US was dicovered! Also what I have witnessed in Texas and Africa is rise in trophy hunting interest, most certainly not a decline...

We have no high fence hunting ranches here in my country. Yet an Asian Buffalo Bull in the north of the country, free roaming on millions of acres of land, could set you back for between US$8000 - $12000 for the trophy. No high fence involved. Market Driven! This Buffalo Bull for meat is worth approx US$1000. The Wild Banteng Cattle as a trophy hunt are selling for approx US$6000+. Meat Value, Nil as far as I know. Brahman and BrahmanX scrub bulls are making US$4000-$10000 trophy value. Meat value US $500-$800. No high fence, totally market driven... Our TB and Brucelosis eraditcation programs almost wiped the Asian Buffalo and Benteng Cattle out. Without Trophy value and the demand, these animlas would be gone - History!

Have look - Visit the Exotic Wildlife Assoc, The Texas Wildlife Assoc the Texas Parks and Wildlife, they can provide the back ground reality on the Trophy, Meat and Game Ranch situations... Somewhere, somehow, this  Meat vs Trophy vs High Fence hunting division that exists in the US needs to be bridged, or in time you won`t be hunting anything - trophy, meat or tin Can.... I hope for all of you that enjoy to hunt, including me, that you get it sussed!!!!

ps: I also agree about the antlers on the barbie, not for my tsate

[mrlizzzard]

I have hunted long time,I have a place in Texas and hear the talk of big shots paying big sums for a buck,they know there shooting a tethered animal.They know it's like panning for gold in a salted mine.They do it cause they can.Deer and all game are a natural recource like water.If you want a fight in Texas just alter or stop a stream.The deer and other game are just like that water,the state should make sure they are treated as such.
lizzzard

[williamlayton]

I have read this thread more than a few times and I am a little confused or maybe you folks are.
What is the argument here? The only thing I hear is fat assed lawyers, tethered hunts, shooting not hunting, not their game belongs to the people,etc.
Are you folks so jealous and envious that you cannot tell the truth? Hunting on private land has never, ever been inexpensive if it produced good game.
Hunting public land is not a bad choice if you like to HUNT. It produces some game, sometimes good game, often none or small game.
If you are hunting for the meat who wants a large old buck. I would take a couple of small does over one of them for eating.
I remember growing up in East Texas, no fencing to speak of, running dogs, folks ignoring posted signs or using them to sight in a rifle. No deer, small deer, drunk deer hunts.
What is it you folks really want? Do you know what it is you want? All I hear is complaining about not being able to hunt high fence and justifying why you think it is wrong that you can't.
May be that I am wrong, but I didn't write those post, you folks did. If what I am hearing is incorrect then perhaps you have need to post a bit more clearly.
What do you folks want- there is no free lunch?
I am not unhappy with you folks just a might confused.
Blessings

[cam0063]

Hi William,

I have been following this from time to time too, as you can see by my input Mainly cause I see many US hunters creating division and fighting amongst themselves... To be honest I never knew it was so bad until reading this topic... With so many outside forces wanting to remove your right to hunt and to be able to own firearms, to see fellow hunters creating classes of hunters within their ranks and then condemning one for hunting trophies or a another for hunting high fence land seems crazy to me.

In the past, we lost a lot down here by not sticking together and allowed 2 camps to develop within us. I remember when our big Firearm confiscation was being debated and drafted by Govt. There were firearm owners who said we do not need semi automatics to hunt, some stating there is no place for them. Thus hoping to appease the Govt and Public view. And then there were others, me included who said that semi automatics have a valued place and to outlaw them will be a nail in the coffin for all firearm ownership. Sadly the later was correct. We lost semi automatic rimfires & centerfires and Semi auto & pump action shotguns. More recently there is a ban on certain barrel length handguns, magazine capacity restrictions and caliber. All this with handguns which we have not been allowed to hunt with and are for club competition use only. We now stand more unified as one with the infighting gone, but it is a little late! I can see parallels here with the division existing with US Hunters. From a relative outsiders viewpoint, I don`t follow it and know you can`t afford to have it!

I have visited Texas many times, was there last August/Sept and look forward to retuning hopefully this year. I have many friends Game Ranching High fence, I have many friends with hunting leases - low fence. I didn`t see any issues between hunters. They all seem very happy and enjoying their days out on the land - high fence, no fence, trophy or meat... But I have met many who would take it all away from them.

"If you are hunting for the meat who wants a large old buck. I would take a couple of small does over one of them for eating." very good point and one I meant to mention previously. As I said before - Not every animal is a trophy and the % of trophy animals to meat animals is low... To be a trophy animal comes with maturity. People in general who like to put meat on the table will tend to shy from the mature animal. Is the same in ranching - why select the old bull when you have access to the 9 month old calf!!! I am not chewing a strong flavoured old shoe Hunting with a mate of mine, he likes big tusks. We hunt well together. When we come across a group of wild pigs, he has his eye on the big Boar and I am looking for a tender porker for the fridge. So we compliment well and are not looking at the same animal... I imagine this is the same with most people in most places...

I do hope the differences of hunting opinions sort themselves out!

cheers,

Cam...

Ps: Never been to East Texas, may just get there next visit. A Comanche friend in those parts has invited me to hunt wild Hogs [as you guys call em ]. After seeing a Semi load of wild pigs for slaughter being unloaded at a processing plant, I am keen. They look just as mean as ours....

[markc]

I hope you can make it down to Texas to hunt some hogs.  Some are mean, some are not so mean, but they all are very tasty!   Thanks for your level headed posts.  happy hunting