Author Topic: 45-70 Vs 50 cal muzzleloading rifle (Read 1486 times)

rickyp · « **on:** December 23, 2004, 06:15:55 AM »

I am looking for some numbers comparing a 45-70 handgun barrel with a 50 cal muzzle loading rifle with 45 cal bullets out of a sabot and if passable with normal 50 cal lead bullets.

what I am looking to see is if the 45-70 is more powerful, less powerful or about the same as a 50 cal muzzle loading rifle.

jhalcott · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2004, 07:16:10 AM »

Ricky that 45-70 hand gun will become abusive at the velocities the sabot round can reach. Either one can be used safely to 150 yards.The rifle could be good for 200 yards with a lot less abuse to the shooter.
Just my opinion and I have shot both with heavy loads.

teamnelson · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2004, 07:23:21 AM »

http://www.fishandhunttexas.com/45-70_government.htm

They have a nice little ballistic table on the 45-70, under a pretty picture of a Contender in same. Energy at muzzle is listed at 2355, while energy at 100yds. is a whopping 1815.

As for the muzzleloader ballistics, how would you calcluate those?

jh45gun · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2004, 08:22:16 AM »

Like comparing apples and oranges two completely different situations. Both are powerful loads but the 45/70 can be loaded more than the muzzle loader can due to different powders used. Smokless VS Black or substitute.

myronman3 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2004, 08:30:39 AM »

velocity x velocity, divide by 450400, mulitply by bullet weight in grains. for example:

a 44 magnum load with a 300 grain bullet going 1000 fps.

1000fps X 1000fps = 1,000,000

divide 1000000 by 450400 =2.22

mulitply by the bullet weight in grains = 2.22x 300gr. = 666 foot pounds of energy (one evil load

)

so you need to know the velocity and the bullet weight in grains for this formula.

rickyp · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2004, 01:09:49 PM »

what I am trying to do is get MD's DNR to let people use handguns in shotgun only county.
I say the stright walled cases including the 444 marlin and 45-70 (out of a handgun barrel) is just as safe as a shotgun or 50 cal muzzle loader.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:01:49 PM »

Quote from: rickyp

what I am trying to do is get MD's DNR to let people use handguns in shotgun only county.
I say the stright walled cases including the 444 marlin and 45-70 (out of a handgun barrel) is just as safe as a shotgun or 50 cal muzzle loader.

We got it passed in Delaware during shotgun season that you can use a Shiloh Sharps or Sharps replica in place of a shotgun, but you have to use black powder and paper patch bullets. But we got our foot in the door.

We are still trying to get handguns passed, but it is a fight. The police, game and fish agents and DNR are all agents it. What a crock. :evil:

rickyp · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:07:08 PM »

with as money hungry Md's dnr is getting I am going to use something like this
Make a special handgun season and charge a $15 stamp Just like they are now using for bow and muzzle loading.
and once a handgun hunter gets the stamp he/she can hunt a special handgun season and during the firearm season.

jhalcott · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:04:46 PM »

I hate to see you give those B@$#@*&s the idea we don't mind giving them more $$.They'll think it will be OK to up all the fees!

rickyp · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:08:38 PM »

I have a list of ideas that i am gona send them along with a copy to Gov Earlic. if they use my ideas they will not have to raise the fees anymore.

Iowahunter · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2004, 11:29:48 AM »

Here In Iowa we can use a handgun w/ any straight wall case 357 or larger in all of the gun seasons except early muzzleloader season. Must be a jacketed bullet.
I took a nice 8 pointer 3 yrs ago with my S&W 44 mag and passed on alot of does and couple small bucks this yr using a 45-70 Encore

Duval · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2005, 06:53:15 AM »

Ricky, good luck with your letter - I don't think the MD firearms regs have been changed in many years. I too think it's stupid that I can use my Encore muzzleloading handgun in Montgomery County but not my Ruger 44 Magnum (the Encore with 100 grs. is more powerful). But, we can hunt in Frederick Co. with the 30-06 pistol but not rifle. Go figure. The DNR comes to our Izaac Walton League Chapter in the summers to discuss regs changes, etc. I'll bring up the same issue.

Duval

rickyp · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2005, 07:51:22 AM »

if we can get enough people to tell them we want to hunt with stright walled cases trough MD they may listen.

mamerch · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2005, 08:12:29 AM »

I live in MD, in a no-handgun hunting county. I just don't understand why it is okay to hunt with my 12 ga slug gun with a 260 grain slug at 1800 fps but I can't hunt with a pistol that would run 300-400 fps slower. In other counties you can hunt with a muzzleloading pistol... OK, I understand the "no-rifles" part in these counties (it's just too crowded here), but why not a .44 magnum pistol when I can hunt with an Omega that will shoot the same weight bullet 600-700 fps faster. Seems to be a contradiction. Maybe they need a "power-factor" (just a term, don't nit-pick me please). I mean, define an upper limit for velocity and mass and then let us use anything that will meet the limit. Does it really matter if a 300 grain bullet at 1400 fps comes from a shotgun, rifle, muzzleloader or a handgun?

mamerch

rickyp · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2005, 10:50:05 AM »

That is pretty much my point. My knight lk-93 has a 6.63" drop at 150 yards with 300 gr bullet. while the same bullet out of a 45-70 drops 10.5" at 150 yards.
I can understand why they don't want the use of most bottle neck cases around me but all straight walled cases drop so fast and loose power quickly. They are alot more safe then a muzzle loader and the new sabot shotgun slugs. I have seen the new remington buckhammer slug just drops 3.5" at 125 yards.
MD is so far behind the times it is unreal.