Lead leaching from range accumulation

[Cat Whisperer]

Just heard they cleaned out 23 tons of lead boolets from the range in Blacksburg, VA.  Environmental studies showed very localized leaching of lead - not getting into the aquifers.  Probably was done in the last year (Virginia Tech ROTC range with public access).  Just heard it today on the AM WVTF 1260.  Two year accumulation.

[Lloyd Smale]

can you get them to drop off say 5 tons here!!!!!

[Cat Whisperer]

Can you say "recycle"?

Don't I wish!

[savage99]

Ahhhhh, the Great Lead Leaching Myth...

This topic drives me crazy...here in Massachusetts (yes, you all may wince) they are on a range cleaning binge...and the enviromental nuts are having us lime the ranges ("the pH has to be right or the lead will leach") put up extra barriers, etc.
The info I have seen over the years strongly suggests that the lead doesn't leach, but Mother Nature wraps the lead in a coating of lead oxide which seals the lead in.
During the Civil War, the Union army used a Minie ball that weighed 476 grains. I purchased a dropped, unfired bullet from a collector who dug one off a battlefield in Virginia, and when I weighed it (after it had been in the soil for 140 years) guess how much it weighed?

Yep. 476 grains.

A disgruntled member of our gun club here was thrown out for stealing funds about ten years ago, and he promptly "tattled" to the state government that the range was contamination the local swamp where the trap range was.

The state went crazy with an investigation, but found nothing. But about a year ago, they closed down the range...as I understand it...because of the "possibility" that the lead might, one day, cause contamination.

(Perhaps we should all wear Kevlar helmets...after all, we "might" one day, be hit by a meteorite.)

An attorney from Texas (lost his name) wrote to me during the range closing ten years ago, and said he had defended a dozen or so gun clubs against contamination suits...and had won them all. He said he had proof that it was all hokum.

There are plenty of people ot there who are hungry to shut down all gun ranges. Unfortunately, in "lead contamination" they have found some junk science that works.

Best wishes for a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, folks.

[jgalar]

Lead is a naturally occuring element mined from the earth. When we shoot we are just putting it back where it came from.

[Leftoverdj]

Iffen lead bullets in the ground were a significant danger, half the population of northern Virginia would be dead. That land was fought over hard for four years and a couple hundred tons of lead might be shot in one battle.

[Cat Whisperer]

Iffen lead bullets in the ground were a significant danger, half the population of northern Virginia would be dead. That land was fought over hard for four years and a couple hundred tons of lead might be shot in one battle.

THAT'S IT!!!!

Just look at the BEHAVIOR of the folks from Northern Virginia!

And it must be leaching into the Washington DC water supply as well - THEIR behavior (the politicians) is ample evidence!


Merry Christmas, one and all!

[Jim B.]

I am a geologist and have worked as an environmental consultant for almost 20 years.  I have been involved in several shooting range renovations - including a State Police academy.  I have never found an instance where any significant amount of lead has leached from fired bullets into soil or groundwater.  Previous comments about the protective layer of lead oxide are correct - this layer of "corrosion" prevents further degradation of the slug under all but the most extreme conditions.

When we did the State Police academy cleanup we had masses of lead in the berm that weighed over 20 lbs from fused bullets!  We hauled out tons of lead and only found traces of lead a foot or so below the deepest bullets.  Those traces were likely from small flakes of lead that had migrated to that slight depth under impact pressure.  Lab analyses don't lie!

In my opinion, you do considerably more damage to the environment with the vapors you release when you fill your car with gas than you do shooting a couple hundred rounds of lead bullets/shotshells.

Jim B.

[Haywire Haywood]

Speaking of recycling, I was talking to a gent here in Ky a few years ago who said that he bought a 55gal drum of shot that was reclaimed from a range and used it for practice skeet loads.  Said he shot for years off it.  All mixed up shot sizes, he just scooped some out of the barrel, washed it and put it in his loader.  He was the state champ one year that I know of.  I forget his name, he was selling reloading supplies out of his sizable garage to fund his shooting habit.

Ian

[Leftoverdj]

Ian, I've seen that sold commercially from time to time. Stuff I saw had been washed and screened for size and was selling for about 2/3 of new. If you ran across a bulk unsorted batch like you just told about, I'm guessing that it would be well down into the casting material price range and would need only a little tin added to make superb bullets. Off a skeet range, it would have a pretty high antimony content and enough arsenic to make it heat treatable.

[Dand]

interesting post here.  Our local landfill had to be closed a few years ago because it could be operated according to current rules.  A bunch of test wells were dug to check for leaching - and will be monitored for years.  Our gun range was right along side the dump.  And out trap / skeet range  shot over a pond that had formed in this former gravel quarry. The pond water has been tested frequently too. Now much of the surface water in Alaska is quite acid.  But its my understanding that so far, all tests have found little or no lead in the wells or pond. Seems to support the other comments presented here.

Maybe NRA, or NSSF should start accumulating good data to show just what if any threats are posed by range lead.

I bet our old dump has more threatening heavy metals from all sorts of batteries, old engines and electronics that were disposed there.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The way I see it we shooters are doing the environment a huge favor.

Wheel weights are generally made from recycled batteries.  And bullet casters use a lot of wheel weights.  


Without the battery-wheelweight-bullet cycle the batteries would get landfilled.  All that lead would then be turned loose in the environment along with the battery acid.  The acid-lead combination would likely cause more lead contamination than chunks of lead in an acid soil.  

Just dig through the berm.  If there are lots of bullet with white corrosion on them then your soil environment is probably fine.  If the bullets look like a clean gray then you may have enough acid in the rain and soil to leach lead.  However, with respect to ground water lead just doesn't travel far.  Even in low pH water it tends to stick to the soil particles.  There's an ionic attraction to the soil particles that overrides the acid water.  So at the very worst, you may contaminate the soil with lead, which could render it useless for vegetable gardens and children's sandboxes - big whoop.

[Cat Whisperer]

Wheel weights are generally made from recycled batteries.  

I HOPE NOT!  KINDLY CHECK YOUR SOURCE FOR THIS INFORMATION!

IF IT IS TRUE, WE ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.

FOR THE LAST 10 OR SO YEARS LEAD-ACID STORAGE BATTERIES CONTAIN CADMIUM, WHICH IS NOT TO BE FOOLED WITH IN CASTING BULLETS!!!!!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Cat Whisperer,

My understanding is both are true.  You should NOT recoup lead from batteries to make bullets.  But that doesn't mean you can't use wheel weights which may or may not be made from batteries.

Extracting the lead from batteries is more involved than simply rinsing the acid out and melting it down.  You try that enough times and you'll kill someone.

But that doesn't mean battery lead is totally untouchable.  I suspect that if you tour a battery recycling facility, you'll find they have safety equipment and processes not found in your average garage.  

My source was a poster who used to work at a wheel-weight manufacturing plant - so take it for what that's worth.