Author Topic: Gary Alt retired (Read 2934 times)

Sheila · « **on:** December 24, 2004, 04:50:14 PM »

I'm sure glad to see him go. The deer here in Pennsylvania are nearly extincted because of him.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #1 on:** December 25, 2004, 04:21:41 AM »

Quote from: Sheila

I'm sure glad to see him go. The deer here in Pennsylvania are nearly extincted because of him.

Who be Gary Alt, inquire Dali Llama? :?

Dali Llama · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2004, 04:24:35 AM »

Quote from: Sheila

I'm sure glad to see him go. The deer here in Pennsylvania are nearly extincted because of him.

Who be Gary Alt, inquire Dali Llama? :?

Steelbanger · « **Reply #3 on:** December 25, 2004, 04:59:53 AM »

Merry Christmas Dali,

In response to your question, Gary Alt is the controversial guru of Pennsylvania's deer herd. I don't know his title with the Pennsylvania Game Commission but we call him various names. He knows everything a person can possibly know about whitetail deer. I know because he told me so (can you read sarcasm into that statement?). He has instituted a program whereby we hunters kill all the female deer for him and thereby we will only have trophy bucks. Honest. Antler restrictions were one of his better ideas but the massive doe killings are devastating to the deer herd here. I believe we're 5 years into the program now and people are, guess what, seeing fewer deer in the woods. Alt has probably been threatened with lynching or something similar and has now resigned, effective Dec. 31. All my friends and acquaintances are totally against him, as are most hunters here.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2004, 08:05:43 AM »

Quote from: Steelbanger

Dali,

In response to your question, Gary Alt is the controversial guru of Pennsylvania's deer herd.

Dali Llama say he grateful for explanatory response to question posed. :grin:

jh45gun · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2004, 01:32:50 PM »

Must be a Game Manager thing as WI has implemented the same program shoot all the does. I think other states have done it as well. Hunters like lots of deer in the woods something the DNR does not understand. Down south where the winters are not hard you sure are not going to have winter kill so I wonder what the issue is down there> Jim

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2004, 01:42:53 PM »

Speaking ONLY of Bama where I live the issue here is too darned many does per buck. In many if not most areas here there are 8 to 12 does or more even per buck. That's not a normal or healthy situation. It has been caused by so many years of not shooting any does and a daily bag limit of one buck per day from Oct. 15 to Jan. 31 each season.

Now there are parts of Bama that have too danged many deer for their own good. NOT however where I live and hunt. We could use more. Still the buck to doe ratio is badly messed up and does need a bit of adjustment. Estimates of Bama's deer herd are generally around 1.5 to 1.8 million. I have no clue how many deer we have but in parts of the state a whole bunch for sure. But in other places you'll see darn few.

powderman · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:20:06 PM »

I've wondered for years if insurance companies have lobbyed to reduce the deer, thereby reducing claims from deer, vehicle crashes. Less deer in the woods, less deer on the roads. What do you think? POWDERMAN.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:40:41 PM »

Quote from: powderman

I've wondered for years if insurance companies have lobbyed to reduce the deer, thereby reducing claims from deer, vehicle crashes. Less deer in the woods, less deer on the roads. What do you think?

Dali Llama say that sound too sensible for big business. :-)

jh45gun · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2004, 09:00:24 PM »

Quote from: powderman

I've wondered for years if insurance companies have lobbyed to reduce the deer, thereby reducing claims from deer, vehicle crashes. Less deer in the woods, less deer on the roads. What do you think? POWDERMAN.

For sure the insurance co have something to do with it. They like taking your money but hate paying out the claims bites into their pockets. Greybeard it is true some areas can have too many does but like WI it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out slaughter too many does and the issue goes the other way then there are not enough deer. I have seen this my self this year where I have been bow hunting. The area just had too darn many deer harvested out of it in the past couple of years now you hardly see one. This was the first year I have not killed a deer with a bow in years due to the high price of gas I hunted pretty much exclusivly the metro area close to home and just did not see any deer as did a few friends of mine who hunt the same area they were skunked also. Of course that is what the city wanted as this was a metro area hunt. Still I can see the same thing in the rual areas I have hunted. Some area's IN WI they had a Earn a Buck where you had to shoot a doe first before your buck tag was good. I talked to some folks and some who put articles in the paper saying they could not find any does to Kill. This was not in the area I hunt but a couple deer zones over in the next county. While I did see deer in the rual areas I hunt they were not there in numbers of years past. FOR WI it is and was a good money maker 12 bucks a pop for bonus tags and 20 bucks for non residents. We live near MN so we have lots of MN folks hunting here. Plus the reg deer tag had a free bonus tag for each the gun and archery licenses that adds up to a lot of does.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #10 on:** December 28, 2004, 01:07:16 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun

We live near MN so we have lots of MN folks hunting here.

Unfortunately, that include Vang and too many other folks of his ilk, say Dali Llama. :twisted: :x :evil:

Sheila · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2004, 03:27:30 AM »

Quote from: powderman

I've wondered for years if insurance companies have lobbyed to reduce the deer, thereby reducing claims from deer, vehicle crashes. Less deer in the woods, less deer on the roads. What do you think? POWDERMAN.

I think they have. People need to be more alert around hunting season when they are out driving.

bullet maker · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2004, 03:38:09 AM »

Hi guys

It must be a system wide thing. Because here in Okla, with a deer population of around 500,000, ( that was a census about 3 years ago, if my memory is correct), The wildlife dept, pushed for a 16 day modern gun season, with a 3 day bonus doe season. So in essence you could take 1 buck and 2 does. They even had a slogan (Those in the know take a doe) :roll: . They want a ratio of 2 to 3 does per buck :-D In reality, they wanted to sell more licenses, make more money, figured that if they lengthened the hunting season during modern rifle, more people would hunt, which translates to more money for them.
Well, this is the third year of this brain child and the deer harvest is down by 5,000 for this time compared to last year, at this same time, thats according to the Tulsa, World newspaper, by the outdoor editor. All of the other hunters, that I have talked to, say the samething, they are seeing less deer. Another indication, is road kill. I`ve only seen two this year where I live, and I usually see about 9 by this time.

bullet maker

Steelbanger · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2004, 02:10:53 PM »

I thought I'd share a closing line from an email I received today from a friend that lives about 50 miles from where I hunt.

"Best for the New Year, and Gary Alt is gone!"

Sheila · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2004, 04:24:04 AM »

Quote from: Steelbanger

I thought I'd share a closing line from an email I received today from a friend that lives about 50 miles from where I hunt.

"Best for the New Year, and Gary Alt is gone!"

And I hope his replacement does a better job. And in order to bring the deer population up again, don't buy a doe tag. Just think about how many does were killed this year that were pregnant.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2004, 08:32:12 AM »

Quote from: Sheila

Quote from: Steelbanger
I thought I'd share a closing line from an email I received today from a friend that lives about 50 miles from where I hunt.

"Best for the New Year, and Gary Alt is gone!"

And I hope his replacement does a better job. And in order to bring the deer population up again, don't buy a doe tag. Just think about how many does were killed this year that were pregnant.

:evil: Many ensure same fate every day to human beings with no hesitation :twisted: ; it be called abortion and be legal, say Dali Llama. :twisted: :x :evil:

ratgunner · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2004, 11:44:24 AM »

GARY ALT RETIRED OR RETARDED? HA-ha good ridence, he probly gonna move to a state that has deer in it.IF he even hunts.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2004, 01:31:34 AM »

Quote from: ratgunner

GARY ALT RETIRED OR RETARDED?

Both, respond Dali Llama. :grin:

deb · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2004, 12:47:39 PM »

Has it occurred to the crucifiers of DOCTOR Alt that the holder of his job classification might have been required to promote a management program that was politically dictated and might not have been what he, himself, would have done as a result of his knowledge and education? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that Pennsylvania has been the last remaining state in the country that made wildlife management decisions based on long standing biological principles rather than according to dictates of politicians and that the recent deer management program could have been assigned to DOCTOR Alt and might represent the end of that notoriety? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that the deer management program might have been a small concession to the non-hunting, political majority in an effort to continue doing the right thing as much as is possible and delay handing over the whole ballgame right now? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that DOCTOR Alt's choosing to retire now might be based on ANYTHING other than his association with the recent deer management program? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that, as more and more previously huntable land gets gobbled up in housing developments, gets covered with asphalt and concrete, or gets posted against hunting, wildlife populations are increasingly managed by the whim and votes of a growing non-hunting populace/legislatures rather than by talented professionals with years of dedicated education under their belts? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that the big picture (the gradual and inevitable loss of huntable habitat and the political take-over of wildlife management) should be the focus of attention rather than sighting in on, and spewing all your venom against, one person who may have been a designated sacrificial lamb? Who is to blame for that?

The practice of managing deer for maximum sustained yield will no longer be tolerated by the non-hunting, voting majority. And as more areas become urbanized and populated by an ever growing voting majority of urbanites, the final outcome is inevitable. No one person, not even DOCTOR Alt, can be logically held accountable for that.

ratgunner · « **Reply #19 on:** December 31, 2004, 04:18:36 PM »

If what you are saying is true then I guess that means he lied to us when he himself promoted his little snake oil show. Thank you for pointing out that .By the way it DID accure to many of us that he was a liar.

ratgunner · « **Reply #20 on:** December 31, 2004, 04:24:08 PM »

:? Further more we as hunters trappers and fisherpersons pay for the resource and for its management. If there is some cloak and dagger games going on that we are not aware of DOCTOR Alt should have done the right thing and exposed it. :evil:

grizzy57 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 31, 2004, 11:24:59 PM »

It is not anyone fault but OUR own!! Just because they sell all the Doe and Bonus tags WE don't have to buy them..Thats the problem!!! 2 deer in one season is enough for anyone!!! :x
grizzy57

Dali Llama · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2005, 04:19:29 AM »

Quote from: deb

Has it occurred to the crucifiers of DOCTOR Alt that the holder of his job classification might have been required to promote a management program that was politically dictated and might not have been what he, himself, would have done as a result of his knowledge and education? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that Pennsylvania has been the last remaining state in the country that made wildlife management decisions based on long standing biological principles rather than according to dictates of politicians and that the recent deer management program could have been assigned to DOCTOR Alt and might represent the end of that notoriety? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that the deer management program might have been a small concession to the non-hunting, political majority in an effort to continue doing the right thing as much as is possible and delay handing over the whole ballgame right now? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that DOCTOR Alt's choosing to retire now might be based on ANYTHING other than his association with the recent deer management program? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that, as more and more previously huntable land gets gobbled up in housing developments, gets covered with asphalt and concrete, or gets posted against hunting, wildlife populations are increasingly managed by the whim and votes of a growing non-hunting populace/legislatures rather than by talented professionals with years of dedicated education under their belts? Is he to blame for that?

Has it occurred to any of you that the big picture (the gradual and inevitable loss of huntable habitat and the political take-over of wildlife management) should be the focus of attention rather than sighting in on, and spewing all your venom against, one person who may have been a designated sacrificial lamb? Who is to blame for that?

The practice of managing deer for maximum sustained yield will no longer be tolerated by the non-hunting, voting majority. And as more areas become urbanized and populated by an ever growing voting majority of urbanites, the final outcome is inevitable. No one person, not even DOCTOR Alt, can be logically held accountable for that.

Dali Llama say he compliment deb on carefully considered and eloquently worded post. :-) Dali say he curious if perchance deb be personal friend of Gary Alt? :?

Steelbanger · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2005, 05:24:41 AM »

Dali, very perceptive of you. I suspect spouse or partner. Regular defenders never use the prefix DOCTOR when speaking of the subject of this thread.

deb · « **Reply #24 on:** January 01, 2005, 08:52:07 AM »

Dahli and Steelbanger,

Sorry to burst your bubbles, gents, but I have never met the man. Just tired of hearing all the angry tirades directed at someone just because he tells you something you don't want to hear, even when it's the truth. Reminds me of the little kid who kicks his mother for telling him to get away from the hot stove.

Dr. Alt, and I address him as "doctor" because he has earned the degree and deserves that amount of respect, has been telling Pennsylvania hunters that we can no longer manage deer for maximum sustained yield because deer management decisions can no longer be made without taking into consideration the interests of all the other non-hunting citizens. Our society has progressed/regressed to that point and can't be denied. Look at the fuss raised by PETA and Friends of Animals in attempting to stifle game management programs like trapping and bear hunting in N.J. and Maine. The deer herd had to be reduced whether we (hunters) like it or not. I, too, would like to see more deer like it was in most of Pennsylvania in the 70s and 80s. But the make-up of the forests has changed, total huntable forest land has shrunk and the number of non-hunting citizens who are impacted by a burgeoning deer population has risen. Those people represent a significant threat to the continuation of hunting as a sport and can no longer be ignored. Dr. Alt has tried to drive home the point that now is the time for hunters to accept some changes in their sport or possibly lose that sport completely. We may not like to hear that but Dr. Alt didn't make it that way.

It appears that some people ASSUMED why Dr. Alt instituted the changes he did. And they ASSUMED why he announced his retirement when he did. And they ASSUMED why I used the title, "Dr." And they ASSUMED I had some personal relationship to Dr. Alt. All those assumptions, and we all know what happens when we ASSUME, may be just as consistently inaccurate as your obvious assumption that I am a female!

MSP Ret · « **Reply #25 on:** January 01, 2005, 09:01:03 AM »

deb sounds like an "anti" to me, cruising the boards looking for information to use against us all and hunting in particular....<><....

ratgunner · « **Reply #26 on:** January 01, 2005, 10:47:03 AM »

:-D And will the real Dr. Gary Alt please step forward.I think maybe DEB is Dr. Alt.lol. :shock:

Steelbanger · « **Reply #27 on:** January 01, 2005, 11:44:42 AM »

Deb,

I believe that most hunters were against Alt because of his arrogant take it or leave it, I know it all attitude and his approach of instituting a state-wide program to solve local issues. Philadelphia deer problems aren't the same as the central Pennsylvania deer situation (not a problem), so why have us all under the same set of rules? You are one of the very few defenders of the man for which most of have no respect. If you're offended by my wondering if you were his spouse, I'm sorry. I'd be offended too if someone insinuated I was related to him.

ratgunner · « **Reply #28 on:** January 01, 2005, 11:54:46 AM »

:-) Okay lets stop beating a dead horse, Alt is gone. I guess the next one will have to be very brave to take over now, he has alot of work to do.

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 01, 2005, 12:26:54 PM »

Well first of all I have a problem with the respect issue. A person has to earn respect first of all so I will address this man as Mr. Ault. I saw this man on TV a couple of times and to me he comes across as a very arrogant individual wherein there lies the rub. This is the type of people our colleges and universities are unleashing on this country. I don't know all the details of Mr. Ault"s plans but maybe if he took the time to gradually ease into things the reception would have been a lot better. I don't know what Pennsylvania's limit is on deer but 2 or 3 per year is enough for anybody. If you wipe out the breeding base it means less deer for next year.