Author Topic: tennis ball mortar  (Read 1716 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jim R. Glines

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 21
tennis ball mortar
« on: December 27, 2004, 08:39:50 AM »
Hi all, and hope you had a nice christmas, and all your gifts were round long, and heavy. I want to build a new mortar, and wanted to know how a concrete filled tennis ball would work? Thanks for all the help.


Jim R. Glines

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
tennis ball mortar
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2004, 12:05:36 PM »
You'd HAVE to have a really strong back-hand to return the serve.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
tennis ball mortar
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2004, 01:53:43 PM »
Try it an let us know how it works out. Personally I think you might have probelms. I don't think the tennis balls will hold shape when filled with cement.

The first step in your project is the easiest.  Fill a tennis ball with cement. Once it hardens roll it across the floor and see if it rolls straight.

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
tennis ball mortar
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2004, 02:42:24 PM »
I agree with DD.  IF you can get the projo to set up as a sphere, you're in luck.  You won't KNOW until you try it.  You might want to make a hemisphere to set the tennis ball into while the concrete sets up.  That would help preserve the shape.

You'll find that filling beer-cans with concrete is not as easy as it might seem.  One cuts out the top first (to be able to get the concrete in).  Then the can is VERY flimsey - if you have close tolerances you will get a few rejects.  If you do 1/2 cans you will have a LOT of rejects.

Can't say as I've measured one.  Should be a bit bigger than a beer-can though.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline ShadowMover

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 355
  • Gender: Male
tennis ball mortar
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2004, 05:08:44 PM »
I tried concrete filled tennis balls in my 3"x3' mortar. I did not expect much as the 'windage' was very large. Well, it was very loud report and the ball disappeared into the blue sky, and I never saw where it came down. I was using an empty 22 shell box full of FF, with a fuse taped on. A soda can full of concrete with a chain link fence post finial bolted in would go about .5 mile with the same load. Both were at 45 degree elevation. The soda cans didn't make much noise at all, just a whoomph!  I used masking tape to help hold the tennis ball in shape while it set. It was a waste of time.

Now I have a much better way of making concrete balls.  I use mortar mix from a lumber yard. No pun intended.  This method will make balls very close to the size of the tube you are using, so you will have to allow for your own windage, and the fact the balls are not perfect spheres.

Cut a piece of tubing 2/3 long as the inside diameter is wide.  For example, if you wanted 3" balls, you would cut a piece of 3" tubing 2" long. .  Cutting the tubing this long gives you the same volume as the sphere you want to make. (see formula at end if you are interested). Also cut a short ring of the tubing, say 1" long. This will be used to smooth up the ball. Clean the edges of the cuts with a half round file. You don't want any rough sharp edges. I used PVC pipe for mine but any round pipe will work. Spray some PAM cooking oil or some other release agent inside the tubes. Pack the long tube with a damp mud made from the bagged mortar mix. Don't mix more than you can use in a test run. Use just enough water to make it stick together. Don't make runny mud. Adding white glue or concrete adhesive will make the balls much stronger, which is important when they get up around 3". Now comes the trick part. Push the mortar out of the measured mold and roll it up into a ball, using your hands. Just like a snowball.  Latex gloves are a good idea here, as lime will burn your skin real quick. If it is sloppy and drips, you added too much water or glue, so add more dry mortar mix and try again.  One you have a nice ball put it back into the short 1" ring and it will fit, touching only at the edges. Spin the ball in the short ring and it will round itself out. Spin the ball in all directions so it is smooth on all sides. If the ball has low spots that are still rough, try adding a little more damp mix to the low spots. Any extra mortar will be extruded at the edges. This sounds harder than it is.  Your problem now it to keep the ball from sagging and splitting as it hardens. I put them in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket and put a plastic bag over them for a few days, keep them damp with a spray bottle. Checking them again in an hour or so with the short ring might be helpful.  After a week I have dropped them on the floor and they don't break. The bigger balls are a challenge, but making a chicken wire cage skeleton would make it easier, but I haven't tried it.  This isn't an exact 'how to', but it will give you the idea. Remember: they are not perfect spheres, so allow for it. You don't want one to wedge in halfway down the bore.

For the math majors: volume of a sphere
V=4/3*pi*r^3
1 1/3 times 3.14 times r times r times r where r is the radius or half the diameter of the tube (D/2=r)
volume of a cylinder
V=h*pi*r^2  where h is the height of the mold section
To get the height

set  4/3*pi*r^3=h*pi*r^2
divide both sides by pi you get
4/3*r^3=h*r^2
divide both sides by r^2 you get
4/3r=h
substituting D/2 for r you get
2/3D=h where h is the height of the fill up mold.

Offline Soot Sucker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
tennis ball mortar
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2004, 07:44:37 PM »
Quote from: ShadowMover
For the math majors: volume of a sphere
V=4/3*pi*r^3
1 1/3 times 3.14 times r times r times r where r is the radius or half the diameter of the tube (D/2=r)
volume of a cylinder
V=h*pi*r^2  where h is the height of the mold section
To get the height

set  4/3*pi*r^3=h*pi*r^2
divide both sides by pi you get
4/3*r^3=h*r^2
divide both sides by r^2 you get
4/3r=h
substituting D/2 for r you get
2/3D=h where h is the height of the fill up mold.



I knew that......(not)

 :-D

Dave

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
tennis ball mortar
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2004, 02:14:04 AM »
You mean he isn't trying to post a picture? :)

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
tennis ball mortar
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2004, 02:44:42 AM »
I did know that.

But then when bean-bag chairs were in, I made an 8' diameter one made with blue denim.

We figured if FULL it would hold about 40 bushels, which if filled with soy beans would be a ton or so.  Chose styrofoam bead instead.

It did take a while to find the forumla for the volume of a sphere, not a common ordinarily used every day formula.

Shadowmover - must be an engineer to have reverted to that.  I'd of just guessed - one tennis ball = about two handfulls of mortar mix.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline Jim R. Glines

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 21
tennis ball
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2004, 04:08:26 AM »
Thanks for the help on the tennis ball mortar. I have a piece of steel about 7" long with a 5" dia. I wanted to make something that I could shoot with my buddies down in Kanas. we go down  in a flat field set up our tents and  target at 2,4, 6, 8, hundred yards, we shoot black powder rifles and cannons, so I wanted something I could shoot and have fun and impress the boys with. I was going to make a golf ball mortar but seem pretty big for that. Maybe I should just use PVC full of concrete. any other ideas let me know.
Thanks
Jim

Offline Cat Whisperer

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pulaski Coehorn Works
tennis ball mortar
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2004, 06:02:49 AM »
Jim -
5"dia x 7" long is a little short to get out much beyond 100 yards.
To get out further you need two things large mass of projo and longer barrel to get higher velocity.

I've got a couple of pieces that size that I'm going to do a beer-can caliber that will look like the 13" seacoast mortar (like the dictator).
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)