Author Topic: Ball vs conical performance on game (Read 1059 times)

Tom H. · « **on:** December 30, 2004, 10:10:05 AM »

Just looking for the experience of shooters using standard ML slugs and balls on game. (not sabots)
A few years ago NY gave the go ahead for conicals on deer, but many of the hunters I know continued to use round balls, and not just for their accuracy.
I do know that the energy figures for patched balls do not reflect their performance on game. If that was the case, we wouldn't be shooting deer beyond 50 yards.
If anyone could post their actual experience with these guns (not what the books print) that would be great.
I noticed one on another post where a .58 went through a large deer, and then a 4" tree. That type of stuff would be perfect.

Of course there is a project involved.

Thanks

Tom

Snowshoe · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2004, 11:42:02 AM »

The only deer I ever lost was shot with a 370g Maxi out of a .50 cal. I found the deer the next day half eaten by coyotes. I have shot a few others with slugs, and had to fallow them for some ways to collect them. The round ball on the other hand has dropped most whitetailsm, for me, on the spot. I think the ball delivers the energy into the animal, and the bullet often uses up it's energy flying out the other side. This is just my experiences and not what happens all the time. I know of one fellow that uses that same 370g Maxi, and drops his deer on the spot every time. he puts the slug into the shoulder and busts the front end up good. I don't like destroying that much meat.

KING · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2004, 01:29:22 PM »

Tom H................I be the one with the ball exiting a large buck and going through a tree of 4inches. Yes I shoot a .58 rb gun,and love it. I also have harvested whitetail with .45 up to a .62 cal. I am a firm believer in the rb for taking deer and even larger game. What I really like is that the rb will really flatten out . MOST of the time I will find the ball on the off shoulder side,under the skin. Great energy dumping into the animal making for a very quick and humane kill. I only shoot for the heart/lung area on deer,and will not take a neck shot or a going away shot due to having way to much respect for the animal. Nor do I shoot over 125 yards. Dont want to loose one due to me screwing up ya know. I have also shot them with conicals again from the .45 up to the .58. All of them passed through the animal and in my opinion destroyed to much meat. I prefer a .54 for a rb gun but again I love that .58. I do ponder on whether it is to large for a whitetail sometimes, and think it would be better suited for something the size of a moose far better. I know I would not hesitate to use it on one. Stay safe....King

sabotloader · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2004, 02:36:23 PM »

Tom H.

Just my 2 cents here, There is no doubt about the effectiveness of RB's within their limited area/range of use. Conicals were developed because of the limits that you incur with round balls. If RB's were the answer the conical would have never been developed.

An excellent conical is the 460 No-Excuse. I have ran some ballistic and energy data on this bullet. It really surprised me - they are good. Those that shot this projectile are always discussing its' accuracy. Pushed with either Goex or t7 it is a real performer. Contact this guy he is a ton of help and real knowledgable about ML shooting

http://members.aol.com/nebullets/index.html

RCL · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2004, 04:15:03 PM »

The one deer that I have gotten with a conical was last year, a good sized doe that crossed in front of me at 60-70 yards. Dropped in her tracks, with the bullet passing through. The gun was a .54 Cal. T/C New Englander. The slug was a Hornady Great Plains Bullet, 425 grain hollow base hollow point. Charge was 100 grains of Goex 2F. That load shoots great in that gun.
Maybe a little bit of overkill, but the results were very decisive. :grin:

jbtazgrabber · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2004, 07:06:24 PM »

killed my first deer with a 45 rb at 25 yds..15? ok 22 yrs ago....ran a mile just lucky i found it no blood but 141#deer.....shot 54 round balls for6 or 7 years not muck better luck they run 50 to80 yds usally no blood trails....shot serval deer with a 58 rb.better but still no blood.but...they didnt run so fari found my first ballfrom the rear quarter from a quarting shot it wasnt hardly oval more less flat....i went to a 72 cal. it was even better,but....when i went to a 12 ga. slug in a 12 ga. wad in that 72 cal that the best no running at all.........most my shots are under 50 yds...all using 100 gr. rs powdersome of my shots are 20 yds.so i thought i was going to fast to close???4 quick on the spot kills....ive had buddys use big lead bullets with not much seccess.......i now have gone to sabots thanks to the girlfriend she killed 2 with sabots this year ,<her first year going>no problems finding even with a low <NO VITALS HIT>SHOT itook a third deer this year with her gun droped dead in her tracks like her first deer....i reed so much about others killing with rb. that have so much better results than me.....but its not me.......im a sabot man now.....JB

Will Bison · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2004, 08:06:06 AM »

I had to take a shot once at 220 yards. (Not because I wanted to just so there's no misunderstanding). The .54 ball entered high on the left rib cage and broke four ribs, severed the spinal cord, broke three ribs on the off side and stopped under the skin. Total penetration was around 16 inches. The shot passed through at about a 45 degree angle.

The ball expanded to .620 at the minimum to .665 at the maximum. Remaining energy at that distance was only 220 lbs, not much. The deer was still alive when recovered after 20 minutes of hiking. It required another shot. There was almost no external bleeding and only minimal internal bleeding.

I don't have a clue what the result would have been with a maxi-ball. I was very surprised that a RB did as much as it did at that distance. It proved to me that the round ball rifle is accurate at even greater distance, but lacks the punch required to make a clean kill.

tony212 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2004, 09:11:46 AM »

Last year I took a 115LB doe at just a tad over 100 yds with a .54 cal. round ball over 80 grains of pyrodex. The deer was standing broadside and the ball went cmpletely through. The deer dropped in her tracks.
Tony212

clodbuster · « **Reply #8 on:** January 01, 2005, 06:51:24 AM »

Tom. The ball will kill-- the bullet will kill. It's all about placement. However, the bullet will let you shoot quartering shots that the ball may not handle. The TC maxi 370 in 50 cal is not a very good white tail bullet because of over penetration due to poor expansion. Game dies from the wound channel made by the bullet. The well expanded projectile traveling at high speed makes the biggest wound. The bullet that stops in the animal did not make as big or as long a wound. I want the largest one my projectile can make, that means big frontal area and complete penetration(exit) giving a good bloodtrail to follow if needed. The conical bullet will carry its ability to cause a wound better than a ball due to better aerodynamics. It also kicks like h@ll.

Tom H. · « **Reply #9 on:** January 01, 2005, 10:28:18 AM »

Thank you all for the replies.

I have taken a couple of deer and a pig with my .58 flint and all with round ball.

The last was a nice doe at around 130yds. Broadside double lung shot that went through. Absolutely no blood for the first 40yards (in 3" of fresh snow).

I wondered after that, if I had been carrying my.50 ball rifle , if I could have had the same results. If the shot had gone through the shoulder would things had been different, (unless I was shooting slugs) especially with the smaller rifle.

I have never shot anything with a conical, but I agree with clodbuster and sabotloader that they have their spot, especially in the area of trajectory and penetration. I tooled up an extra barrel for my underhammer this year in .50 with a fast twist, just so I could take the longer shots. With the .58 I got the results I was looking for anyway.

As with everything else, I know that placement and design are important. Those TC slugs shoot great but they have to act like a solid. Put it on the point of the shoulder and it's going through. I don't know where RCL shot the doe, but I'm sure that the HP had something to do with the results.

Will's shot was something else and looking at everyone else's results, if it was a regular chest shot it would have gone right through regardless of range (within reason) It only stopped because it flattened out. Nice shot.

The project I am working on is OT but the science is the same as ML stuff. I cut a few molds (410 and 510gr) for my rifled 20ga to try to boost performance without going to sabots. The twist was too great and the only way they would shoot consistently was at low velocities which would play heck with trajectory.
At this point I'm looking at a slow twist 20 bore barrel to make a centerfire ball gun. The .62 ball at 1500 should shoot fairly flat and will give me fewer headaches than the conicals. I still have the conical molds to play with anyway.
If anyone has any advice on this project (including a good barrel maker, I haven't made the decision yet) it would be appreciated.
I can move the topic if I have to.

Thank you everyone, and if you have any other stories to post, please do so, they are a great read.

Cheers and Happy New Year

Tom

simonkenton · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2005, 10:37:53 AM »

I have shot 14 deer and hogs with the .50 round ball. This is the most effective game killer I have ever used, and I have killed over 40 deer with the 30-06.
I never had an animal go over 50 yards when hit with the patched round ball. I always took lung shots, longest was 80 yards.
I got great blood trails. Every ball exited so I have never recovered one.
I am not sure what it is about the round ball that makes it such a great game killer. On paper, it barely has enought foot pounds to make a kill at 80 yards. Good thing those deer don't read the ballistic charts.