Author Topic: Mixed feelings (Read 1772 times)

magooch · « **on:** December 31, 2004, 05:29:50 AM »

I wonder if I'm alone in thinking that sometimes when there is a disaster in some far off place, we are too quick to just throw money at it. I do feel that we should help out where we can, but it bothers me that there always seems to be millions of dollars to give to other places that have disasters and we have to scrounge for the bucks to fix up after our own disasters.

I've been through what was called a disaster and I had to clean up the mess and get back to normal with absolutely no help from any foreign country and just a smidgen of help from FEMA. First let me say that I really appreciated the litte bit that I got from FEMA, but it wasn't expected and it didn't make or break us.

My point here is that although I feel for the folks that have suffered the affects of the tidal wave and the terrific loss of life, all the money in the world isn't going to bring the dead back to life and I don't feel any obligation to rebuild those countries that have endured this tragedy.

As I said, I'm not against helping them with some emergency water and sanitation systems and maybe some logistics, but the people there need to do what we have done in this country year after year--help themselves.

I really resent some lard-butt beaurocrat from the U.N., or some self righteous reporter from the New York Times, or some snot-nose, low grade official from the Clinton administration, or for that matter, Clinton himself, saying that we aren't doing enough, fast enough.

Nixter · « **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2004, 06:02:27 AM »

We could have had 10 c-130's in the air loaded with emergency supplies within hours of the tsunami.

It wouldn't have been enough in some peoples eyes.

Will any of these countries ever be in a position to help us? Probably.
Will they help us? Probably not.

I'm glad that we (the United States of America) are in a position to help others in need.

Having said that , I prefer to donate money localy to help those in MY community that are in need. Hope that doesn't come of as sounding cold and insensitive...

My :money:

Nixter

ironglow · « **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2004, 06:16:12 AM »

take a look at the DRUDGE REPORT for today....he takes an article from one of the Euro papers.. "THE SCOTSMAN"

.. Bush "undermining the UN" by forming a separate coalition to help the nations hit by the sunami ...

The article claims that "only the UN has the 'moral authority' " to do that job...
Whew!...what planet do they live on ?

Is that the same UN that has just pulled off the "largest book-juggling fraud in the history of the world"

Just goes to show what a huge gulf exists between what we in the US vs what the Euros consider "moral authority" !

I can see why the Libs in this country seem to sympathize with the "Euro-conscience"...

big medicine · « **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2004, 07:06:36 AM »

Who has ever helped us? how many hurricanes, tornados, floods, bombings have we had? Any other countries ever stepped up to the plate? Every thing that happens in the world is out fault. It is our fault these people died, it is our fault many more will die, it is all our fault. I get so tired of hearing this BS. They want our hard earned tax money and then turn around and Pi$$ down our backs. It is a sad ordeal, and I feel for these people, but I have people right here in my community that could use help and will never get it. No matter what we do it will NEVER be enough for these ungreatful aholes, so why bother to do anything at all.

jh45gun · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2004, 07:38:36 AM »

Quote from: big medicine

Who has ever helped us? how many hurricanes, tornados, floods, bombings have we had? Any other countries ever stepped up to the plate? Every thing that happens in the world is out fault. It is our fault these people died, it is our fault many more will die, it is all our fault. I get so tired of hearing this BS. They want our hard earned tax money and then turn around and Pi$$ down our backs. It is a sad ordeal, and I feel for these people, but I have people right here in my community that could use help and will never get it. No matter what we do it will NEVER be enough for these ungreatful aholes, so why bother to do anything at all.

You hit the nail on the head! We have to get out of the UN and do for our self for a change instead of supporting the whole damn world! I am not talking about the war but every time a country decides for a hand out they come to us yet we never get anything back in return. That has to change! :evil:

TomCanuck · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2004, 09:53:27 AM »

Quote from: big medicine

Who has ever helped us? how many hurricanes, tornados, floods, bombings have we had? Any other countries ever stepped up to the plate? Every thing that happens in the world is out fault. It is our fault these people died, it is our fault many more will die, it is all our fault. I get so tired of hearing this BS. They want our hard earned tax money and then turn around and Pi$$ down our backs. It is a sad ordeal, and I feel for these people, but I have people right here in my community that could use help and will never get it. No matter what we do it will NEVER be enough for these ungreatful aholes, so why bother to do anything at all.

Canada.

Believe it or not, in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew in 1992, Canada's military as well as Canadian utilities workers participated in helping people in Florida.

Yeah, I know in the scope of the disaster, it probably didn't make a huge differance, but every little bit helps.

And you did ask the question.

American's have often helped out in Canada in times of need as well.

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2004, 11:21:26 AM »

Federal assistance in the US is generally in the form of loans or loan guarantees. Money has to be repaid by those who get it for the most part. Money going out of country is always a gift and is never paid back.

big medicine · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2004, 08:43:21 PM »

Tom,
thanks for the reply. And to our Canidian friends a thanks you. I had never heard that you all had helped. But again thank you!!

magooch · « **Reply #8 on:** January 01, 2005, 03:47:43 AM »

Japan has kicked in some bucks to help out on at least one of our disasters.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #9 on:** January 01, 2005, 04:24:38 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Federal assistance in the US is generally in the form of loans or loan guarantees. Money has to be repaid by those who get it for the most part.

:? Dali Llama say he not aware of welfare recipients paying back one red cent of millions given to them! :twisted: :x :evil:

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2005, 05:06:09 AM »

The subject of this thread isn't welfare it's disaster relief. But then you already KNEW that. Didn't you? :eek:

Dali Llama · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2005, 05:08:35 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

The subject of this thread isn't welfare it's disaster relief. But then you already KNEW that. Didn't you? :eek:

Dali Llama say "Federal assistance" be rather broad topic. BTW, did Graybeard yet obtain Stoeger O/U scattergun, ask Dali?

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2005, 05:26:38 AM »

Quote

BTW, did Graybeard yet obtain Stoeger O/U scattergun, ask Dali?

As a matter of fact nope I haven't. Likely won't now.

I think it wasThursday of this week I went up to pick up a Ruger 77 in 6MM I had bought out in TX and had shipped to me. I intended to ask about status of the Stoeger O/U while there but got side tracked.

Setting there on the shelf calling my name oh so softly and sweetly was a Browning XS Sporting Clays gun in 20 ga. with 28" barrels. The wood was to kill for it was so nice. All that gold on it glittered so brightly it just kinda got into my eyes. I picked it up and gently caressed (OK I fondled it) it and it whispered sweet nothings in my ear and made promises to me I just had to see if it would keep. So I'm now $1700 poorer and have a Browning 20 ga. O/U so I doubt I'll bother with the Stoeger.

I really wanted the Browning to start with. I went there looking for one a couple weeks before and came home instead with a Beretta White Onyx 12 ga. with 32" barrels. He told me he couldn't get an Brownings that as far as he knew Browning hadn't even shipped the gun I was looking for in over a year. (White Lightning) This one was used but as new with absolutely no sign of use on it. Got it for over $700 under MSRP too.

TomCanuck · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2005, 06:59:53 AM »

Cheers Medicine Man. For what it's worth, I don't blame you guys for being disgusted with the lack of respect and gratitude shown the United States by the rest of the world.

After all, it's a lot easier to criticize the actions of others than it is to step up to the plate.

despite this, I don't think you can underestimate the importance of the West, lead by the US as usual being seen to be engaged in helping the victims of this disaster. Given that the bulk of the dead are in Indonesia, you can bet the radical islamics would be on Western indifference to the plight of the victims of the Tsunami like stink on a frenchman.

Let's hope that 2005 is a safe year for all the Westerners serving over seas in both the aid and defense of others.

FWiedner · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2005, 08:12:06 AM »

Our beloved President started out by offering $35 million to assist. Then like a little kid getting dared to lick the frozen flagpole, he caved in to the criticism of the communists at the U.N. and decided to ante-up $350 million to prove that the U.S. isn't "stingy".

Pardon me, but those are MY tax dollars being flushed down the toilet, thank you.

How much relief money was apportioned to Florida hurricane relief? $25 million?

Every country hit by the tsunami is already starting to sound-off, and will eventually openly blame the U.S. because they didn't have a tsunami warnining system in place. Somehow, it will be the U.S. and the west in general at fault for the way the earth turned. Guess who will foot the bill for a new warning system?

As soon as they start rolling in our money, we'll be catching hell for everything from someone not having a roof over their head to drunks on the street not having their favorite color of Nike's on Thursday. FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS.

These people and their leaders will squander our money, and then demand more. Radical Islam will flourish because they already have a firm foot-hold in the area. The only result that can come of this is that we will be pushed to bankruptcy and our enemies will be stronger and more influential than ever.

We should NEVER spend more on foreign soil than we do on our own.

Send them a boat load of government cheese and a crate of kitchen matches, then, let's use OUR MONEY to help OUR PEOPLE.

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2005, 12:37:41 PM »

Well said FWiedner, I couldn't have said it better myself. You and I are usually on the opposite ends of the spectrum but I couldn't agree with you more. :shock:

Dali Llama · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2005, 02:13:36 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Quote
BTW, did Graybeard yet obtain Stoeger O/U scattergun, ask Dali?

I'm now $1700 poorer and have a Browning 20 ga. O/U so I doubt I'll bother with the Stoeger.

Dali Llama say he understand; Graybeard certainly not need economy model Stoeger now that he possess Browning XS. Dali say that be akin to man who have Mercedes later purchasing Dodge Neon!! :-D

Bikenut · « **Reply #17 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:08:22 AM »

I'm 100% in favor of give away programs! .........

Now that I have your attention.....

People the world over (especially our own people here at home!) occasionally need a helping hand when fate or circumstance knocks them to their knees. This is the time when a "give away" program is sorely needed and morally justified. And when that person, or country, is able to stand and begin rebuilding their lives this is the time for the give away program to end!

I, as a person, am generally fiercely independent. Much like everyone else that frequents Greybeard's forums... (that is my opinion of fellow members). And yet, there have been a couple of times during my lifetime when circumstance put me in a position where I could not feed my family and I needed financial help. Thank God that help was available but once back on my feet I stopped availing myself of it. On a smaller scale.... just last month I had a knee replaced and during the initial recovery process I just can't get around very much. A trip to the bathroom on crutches is about all I can handle... and my lady has stepped in to do anything and everything for me until I heal up. When able I'll pick up with my chores and duties. My friends and family are constantly checking up on me to see if there is any way they can help, even if it is just to run annoying errands. And I consider myself to be very fortunate to have such loving people in my life.

So helping others in need is a very good thing. Continuing to help when the need has passed only breeds more needy and creates dependency. And when the need changes to dependence it is time for those in charge of doing the helping to.... stop helping!

I have a rather simplistic view of the world in that countrys are much the same as individual people and they interact in very similar manners. The U.S. has some very good friends (Canada and the U.K. come to mind but aren't the only ones) who stand with us.... just the same as I, as an individual, have a few very good friends who stand by and with me. As I do with/for them. The U.S. also has some enemys who would dearly love to see the entire country in ruin... or... to put it bluntly... for the U.S. to die. I have made one such enemy in my life. The U.S. also has some countrys who are just plain jealous and treat the U.S. with spite and mean spiritedness. I'm sure I'm not alone in that I, as an individual, have people who treat me in that manner also. And, just like the U.S., I have some people who would take everything I have and complain because I have no more for them to take.

So, considering countrys as individuals makes it easier for me to understand world politics. It comes down to the U.S. trying to survive in a mean and nasty world while honoring our friends, protecting ourselves from our enemys, and sharing our wealth with those who are in need.

The only difference I can see is that the U.S.'s politicians are entirely too concerned about what the world thinks of the U.S. where I don't care if the whole city likes me or not. I have great respect and admiration for my friends, I am alert and wary of my enemy, and I have nothing but disdain for those who are petty and spiteful, and for those who expect me to support them I have extreme disgust.

Thank you all for allowing me to vent........................

Hooker · « **Reply #18 on:** January 02, 2005, 07:49:06 AM »

[quote="TomCanuck"

Canada.

Believe it or not, in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew in 1992, Canada's military as well as Canadian utilities workers participated in helping people in Florida.

Yeah, I know in the scope of the disaster, it probably didn't make a huge differance, but every little bit helps.

And you did ask the question.

American's have often helped out in Canada in times of need as well.[/quote]

Thats because Canada is a country in denial, They are are more a part of the US than California. They just need to evict those Eurocrats running things up there. :-D

I don't mind helping a neighbor, but being a neighbor is a two sided street.
The UN looks at America as the benefactor for the world and them selves as the administrators.
Time for a policy change if were going to foot the bill we should be the general contractor. But only after these folks start helping them selves.
These countries are like children if you keep giving to them their hand will always be out for more. Make them work for it, busy hands aren't looking for a hand out.
American money pays for work so American companies should be subcontracted to do the job. That way we boost our economy some to offset the cost to the tax payer.
A pay as we go policy will keep the cost down. Instead of dumping large sums of money on the table, that everyone can feed off of. We should bid out every job individually. This why businessmen make better leaders than lawyers. With the right plan we turn a profit on this.

Pat

longwinters · « **Reply #19 on:** January 02, 2005, 08:47:01 AM »

How much $$$ is the rest of the world giving? How about the rich
Arab countries? I think we should help out, but eventually we will be bankrupt. The EU and now China (starting their own version of the EU) wants this very much. The rest of the world does not like there only being one Big Dog in the world.

Long

bubba · « **Reply #20 on:** January 02, 2005, 10:29:38 AM »

Would be nice to get some of that money here to help some of our own down and out people. I will never understand how we let people go hungry here and sleep in parks and cut programs to aid and send it overseas without even batting an eye. I am not big on a hand out but some help out would be good. We continue to send jobs overseas as well as let in illegal immigrants to work here while people here aren't working. dent get me wrong I am a big supporter of Bush and stand behind him. I just wish we could look after our own people as well as we look after foreigners

Dubious Dan · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2005, 03:51:42 AM »

I gotta wonder where the money comes from. The government can't fund programs here at home due to lack of funds, but it's there to send over seas. I don't mind helping the victims of disasters but was taught that charity begins at home.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #22 on:** January 04, 2005, 08:00:26 AM »

Quote from: Dubious Dan

The government can't fund programs here at home due to lack of funds, but it's there to send over seas.

Dali Llama say some persons argue that U.S. prefer to assist Caucasians abroad rather than African-Americans at home. :eek: :eek: :eek:

FWiedner · « **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2005, 08:44:23 AM »

Quote from: Dali Llama

Quote from: Dubious Dan
The government can't fund programs here at home due to lack of funds, but it's there to send over seas.
Dali Llama say some persons argue that U.S. prefer to assist Caucasians abroad rather than African-Americans at home. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Might just be my limited window on the world, and you might even be discussing a different subject, but there doesn't appear to be a tremendous number of "caucasian" Indonesians.

Are you suggesting that our only interest in flushing these millions down the hopper might be to ensure that the "caucasians" that might have been affected are taken care of?

:shock: :eek: :shock:

superhornet · « **Reply #24 on:** January 04, 2005, 08:55:45 AM »

Type in the United Nations-----find "Small Arms Conference". They want to take all your guns, destroy the Constitution, do away with the Flag, do away with Nationalism and a one world government ran by the UN and Kofi Annan. :evil:

Dali Llama · « **Reply #25 on:** January 04, 2005, 08:58:46 AM »

Quote from: FWiedner

Quote from: Dali Llama
Quote from: Dubious Dan
The government can't fund programs here at home due to lack of funds, but it's there to send over seas.
Dali Llama say some persons argue that U.S. prefer to assist Caucasians abroad rather than African-Americans at home. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Might just be my limited window on the world, and you might even be discussing a different subject, but there doesn't appear to be a tremendous number of "caucasian" Indonesians.

Dali Llama say that FWiedner hit proverbial nail on head with penultimate hunch. :grin:

Mauser · « **Reply #26 on:** January 04, 2005, 09:08:49 AM »

I think we should set an example for the rest of the world and let our private sector donate the money on a voluntary basis. Keep the govt funds out of it. We'll still send more than anyone else and because the donations are voluntary rather than coerced (your tax dollars) they would represent true virtue and decency.

Of course this lesson would be lost on all of the world's leaders (including ours) who can't get past their socialist ideology and see the private sector as something to be mined.

Ron T. · « **Reply #27 on:** January 04, 2005, 11:18:57 AM »

Yes... I basically agree with what Bikenut and FWiedner said.

I'm sorry that all those people died... and that the various nations are in a mess, but that's NOT my problem or my Nation's problem, is it?!?

As long as AMERICANS are homeless and AMERICAN children are not getting enough to eat or getting all the education their relative intelligence can handle, I'm sure the heck NOT going to worry about what the U.N. or the maze of 3rd. world countries (or France, Germany and some other quasi-"friends") think of the USA.

The point is... the USA doesn't "owe" any of these country ANYTHING! We've done... and done... and done for them ever since the end of World War II... and our "reward" is to be told we're shirking our duty to them or others?!? Who the heck are they to tell us anything?!?

I think we should look at WHO our REAL friends are... like Canada and Great Britain and maybe a few others... and give them the SAME level of support they give us. As for the rest of 'em... here's my middle finger... and you can kiss my disgusted azz!!!

Ron T.

powderman · « **Reply #28 on:** January 04, 2005, 12:15:22 PM »

BIKENUT. Excellent post Sir. Lots of good points here. I feel fortunate to have been born in a nation in position to be able to help others. We will send more, and give more, because God has given us more. I believe that God would expect us to share our blessings with the less fortunate. Help? Yes. Provide a living for? No. Americans have more and appreciate it less than ANY nation in the world. We waste more food than many nations have to eat.
I believe another point is that we are a Christian nation, at least for now. Even though the muslim nations have great wealth, it will be the Christian world that will give the most in money, food, and manpower.
I believe that GW really screwed up the dumcraps by publicly asking for the help of his Dad and bj bill to raise private funds for the victims and their families. The dumcraps won't have ANYTHING to gripe about now, even hillary will have to keep her big mouth shut. Great move by president Bush, again, I might add.
I Do agree that we could, and should, do a better job of helping our own. I'd love to see health care available to ALL Americans, not just those with big bucks and insurance. I'm still being threatened by bill collectors over my bypass surgery and no insurance. I get sick, I have to depend on Gods help, sure can't afford a dr.
dolly. Quit stirring the pot. Nobody but you sees anything racial in this disaster. :x :x :x :x
POWDERMAN.

Brett · « **Reply #29 on:** January 04, 2005, 12:48:37 PM »

Let's see the Social Security System is on the verge of bankruptcy, the healthcare system in our country is out of control with the majority of the lower and middle class are unable to afford health insurance, Many or our inner city schools are rat infested day care centers where little is being taught to the children, many of our state and federal roads and bridges are deteriorating. Yet we some how can give out 350 million dollars in foreign aid! What the $%#$#!!! I'm with whoever it was that said foreign aid should be a voluntary private sector deal and not a Federal Government hand out that we, the tax payers, have no say in. The liberal pin heads don't seem to realize that the Government has no money and does not make any money, All the money the Government uses or gives away comes right out of our pockets, yours and mine. :twisted: