best lube?-for bullets that is!

[adirondacker]

anyone know of a good lube to use that you apply like like  liquid alox.i have problems with leading in my handguns.want something for higher velocity 45/70 rounds.thanks,shawn

[Forest T]

anyone know of a good lube to use that you apply like like  liquid alox.i have problems with leading in my handguns.want something for higher velocity 45/70 rounds.thanks,shawn

 you have a pm

[Lloyd Smale]

i know lbt used to make a tuble type lube i dont know if they still do or not. To me if your going to shoot at higher velocity i think you ought to get a lubesizer and go to a stick lube. I use tumble lube for low velocity plinking stuff but never had much luck at higher velocitys even in a handgun. Im sure ill get flammed for that statement as to some people the sun rises and sets on tumble lubed bullets. But im not one that has ever been overly impressed

[adirondacker]

i am using cast performance tech bullets in my 50 alaskan,pushing 525 grn at 1750 fps,they use a blue lube that i am sure is a push through type,i get absolutely no fouling from their bullets.they are prob harder than most i make,could be the difference?

[Dusty Miller]

You might want to consider going to a gas checked bullet.

[BCB]

adirondaker,
I use Lee Liquid Alox exclusively.  I do own an RCBS Lube-O-Matic but I have found applying the stick hard lubes to be a pain…Period!  I even purchase a heater to set the press on and that just made the stick lube more sticky and messy!  Since I shoot all of my cast bullets “as cast” it gets very difficult to apply lube in the sizing dies.  You either must get a custom die or apply the lube with the sizes that are available—seldom would that be the “as cast” size.  I have recovered a good many bullets that have been lubed with hard stick lube, and where is the lube???  Still in the lube grooves.  Recover an Alox Lubed bullet and the lube that was all over the surface is gone.  Some must get to the bore and do some good.  I now use the Lube-O-Matic to seat checks only.  A handy designed piece of steel put in place on the press only allows the bullet to enter the die enough to seat the check—the rest of the bullet remains “as cast”.
I must admit that I do keep most of my velocities to 1800 fps or a bit less.  Although I do have a couple of cast loads for my 270 Winchester that run up to the 2400 fps velocity.  They are checked bullets and there is no leading—or at least not the “nightmare” leading we all read about!
I place 50 or so bullets in a baggie and put about a tablespoon of Liquid Alox in there also.  I move the bullets about to get a good coating.  I then place the bullets, setting on their base, on a piece of wet newspaper that has been placed on a cookie sheet.  In the oven they go at 150°± for about ten minutes.  I then shut the oven off and allow them to dry overnight.  This applies a very even coat of Alox and the grooves retain a bit more than the bearing surface. Yep, it is a slow process and if one is shooting volumes of bullets, it may be a bit impractical.  Yet, it allows me to shoot a good many rounds of cast from the several cartridges I reload.
Ain’t going back to that hard stick lube anymore—or at least that is my thought at the present time.  Good-luck…BCB

[Leftoverdj]

Other than Liquid Alox, the only good high speed tumble lube I ever ran across is long discontinued. Rooster Jacket works well for midrange pistol. Works up to 1400 fps in my pistol caliber carbines.

Johnson's Paste Wax also works well for midrange pistol. Just heat the bullets until they are too hot to hold comfortably, add a dollop of wax and tumble. Stand upright and dry.

Both are far less tacky than LA and both work at any level I would shoot plain base bullets at.  GC bullets are another story.

[adirondacker]

i have never put any bullets in the oven,are you supposed to or does it just help with the drying process.i usually do a 2 step process,allox then dry,size, then allox again setting the bullets upright on wax paper to dry.after loading i use a rag and some nail polish remover,stolen from my wife,to wipe off excess lube.the cast bullets that i use in my taurus leave large amounts of fouling,barrel needs to be scrubbed after like 20 rounds.i am not using gas checks and i think they are a relatively soft composition.thanks,shawn

[jh45gun]

I use the Lee Liquid lube also exclusivly and I do not have any leading problems. This is shooting rifle cartridges not pistol. Jim

[sgtt]

adironacker-
have you slugged your bore?  You might be sizing too much.  your alloy might be too soft or too hard depending on velocity.  does you bullet design allow you to let the alox dry nose down?  (a little lube on the base might help)  I don't understand why you lube before sizing.

[adirondacker]

i started lubing before sizing to ensure that the grooves were full.i am pushing those bullets at 1150 fps,with no gas checks,could be i just need a harder alloy mix than i am using,may have to invest in a hardness tester.i am not sure the composition of the lead i was using.

[Haywire Haywood]

If he's using Lee push-thru sizers, the directions say to do exactly what he's doing... lube - size - re-lube.  Too much of a pain in the A for me.  I got a lubrisizer and use the soft FWFL from the last mega batch they did last year.  Works pretty good for me.
 
Unfortunately for me, I got into the hard lube kick, bought a heater and mixed about half of the FWFL I had with candle wax to stiffen it up.  I expect I ruined it.  I hope they do another big batch before I run out of what I have left.

Ian

[kenjuudo]

Haywire-- You can soften FWFL back up with a little vaseline.  Making your own is the way to go in the long run, just don't try it in the house when the little woman is home.

[adirondacker]

haywire,thanks for the vote of support.see,some of us up here in northern ny have a little idea of what we're doin'.lol,thanks for all the ideas,shawn

[jh45gun]

I do not mind the extra step with relubing with the lee sizers as how dificult is it to slop some lube in a tub or what ever container you use and shake some bullets in it and then let them dry on some plastic wrap or wax paper? IF I had a lubrisizer I suppose I would use it but I cannot justify the cost of them when the lee sizers are so much cheaper and work so well as they cost the price of the sizer dies of a lubrisizer and you get a bottle of lube with them. Works for me!

[warf73]

I use my own lube. It's easy and for the cost of 2 bottles of Lee Lube I can lube problem well over 50k bullets with my home made lube.

But keep in mind I only shoot at 680fps. My buddies shoot in the 1100fps range. With the same bullet and lube. I get minimal leading(less than 1/8") just at the throat. That’s after shooting 300-350 rounds.

I don't call that bad leading.

If you don’t mind had dipping every bullet I would recommend it. Especially if you already have a Lee size  kit .

Warf

[unclenick]

Adirondaker,

I think the reason there is disagreement about the effectiveness of some lubes over others is variation in barrel condition.  I recommend you firelap the barrel.  I had an M1 Garand barrel that would foul jacketed bullets so badly that it required 120 strokes with Iosso Bore Paste (the most aggressive of the abrasive bore cleaners) on 4 different patches, plus 20 patches soaked in Sweet's 7.62 ammonia bore cleaner to get it clean.  After firelapping it took only 10 strokes with the paste on one patch and no Sweet's and it was clean.  Alternately, 5 patches of the Sweet's and no bore paste would do the job.  I have a Hawkeye bore scope, so I could really see this was true.  

The same applies in spades to cast bullets.  After my Garand experience, I have firelapped all my guns that don't have hand-lapped custom grade barrels.  And even those, when throat erosion has roughened them, respond well to a bit of light firelapping to clean them up.  After that, many lubes appear to be more effective than they once were, and you will only require the best lubes for light bullets at the highest velocities.

You should also take a look at the semi-permanent barrel lubes, like Sprinco Plate+ or Shooters Solutions' Moly Fusion.  Or even the old Microlon treatment.  All cause velocity increases by reducing the same barrel friction that causes metal fouling.  Firelap first and foremost, then try one of these lubes.  You should need only minimal bullet lube afterward.  WARNING:  don't get even a trace of these lubes in your chamber, or excess bolt face pressure can result!  They are very difficult to remove.

One reason for shooting bullets as cast is that sizing disrupts the crystal structure at the rifling engagement surface.  This causes loss of hardness at that surface that doesn’t complete until, like a spring taking a set, the metal has time to relax the stresses caused by the sizing.  When you let the barrel do the sizing, the bullet gets out the muzzle before the stress relaxation can occur.  This is like shooting a harder alloy after normal sizing.  This goes double for water-hardened bullets.  They have more stress to relax.

If you read Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, you'll see a description of water hardening bullets.  They are sized and gas-checked first, then hardened, then lubed in an oversize die that doesn't upset the surface again.  That's how you may both control bullet diameter and retain full hardness.

Nick


Nick

[quigleysharps4570]

Making your own is the way to go in the long run, just don't try it in the house when the little woman is home.

Yessir, those gals seem to frown on that. The only time I use store bought is on my bullets that are made of plumbers lead. I dip them in liquid alox, after they've dried I then fill the grooves with mine. All are as cast and hand lubed anymore. I've got a Lyman lube-sizer and heater just drawing dust.

[Lead pot]

I think the major cause of barrel leading is caused by improper fitting bullets. If the bullet is to hard the bullet wont upstrude to the bore you will get gas cuts, and the diameter is to small you will get gas cuts, and no amount of lube will prevent that lead from sticking in the barrel It don't matter if you are using smokeless or black powder.
Sometime when you go and test your loads and bullets in the winter shoot into a snow bank and mark the place so you can find the bullets when the snow melts. When you find those bullets you will find a bullet undamaged unless it hit a stone or something. Look at the bases of the bullets and it will tell you were your leading problems start.
As far as lube staying on the bullet once it leaves the bore,I don't think that is to good. I find my lube on the ground out to about 3-16 feet. If you have only part of the lube stick with the bullet that is turning at 39273  RPM fired at 1200 fps from a barrel with a 22 twist it does bad things down range.

kurt

[Vern Humphrey]

I thought I was the only heretic who used Liquid Alox exclusively.

I use it in .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .30-30, .30-06 and .35 Brown-Whelen.  I also use it to lube .50 caliber Minnie balls for muzzle loading.

I haven't run into any problems yet that can't be solved by double-lubing.  Just tumble lube, let it dry a few days, and tumble lube again.  With gas check bullets, I lube and apply the gas check, then relube.

[jgalar]

Has anyone tried tumble lubing the bore? I was thinking of trying it by putting a snapcap or dummy round in the chamber and running a patch with warmed tumble lube through the bore to put a light coating of lube in it. I was thinking it may help out when shooting long barreled mil-surps.

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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Has anyone tried tumble lubing the bore? I was thinking of trying it by putting a snapcap or dummy round in the chamber and running a patch with warmed tumble lube through the bore to put a light coating of lube in it. I was thinking it may help out when shooting long barreled mil-surps.
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Don't do that -- what you're describing is called a "bore obstruction."  Putting anything in the bore of a rifle, and then firing it is a quick way to lose your fingers (and ruin your rifle.)