Author Topic: Some Advice Would Be Appreciated  (Read 2162 times)

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Offline GKing

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Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« on: January 01, 2005, 06:32:34 AM »
I'm an "old" retired guy. Want to buy a pellet gun, primarily for target and plinking, but also for small pests around the farm and an occasional squirrel.

I have decided to get a pretty good gun - something in the 1000 fps range. Considering Beeman R9, RW77, and RWS 48.

Here are my questions:

1) Advantages / disadvantages of barrel cocking vs lever cocking?

2) Accuracy any different between barrel and lever cocking guns?

3) Any other considerations favoring barrel vs lever cocking?

4) 177, 20 or 22 caliber - pros & cons

5) preference between Beeman and RWS? - I'm primarily interested in accuracy and of course quality of construction.

Thanks in advance for your advice

George
George King

Offline dave

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Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2005, 11:27:28 AM »
The side-lever M48 is a powerful gun, and cocking effort is on the high side. It recoils considerably and can be very hard on a scope. In addition, you need to stick your finger into the breech to load it, and if your finger is in there and the gun malfunctions, well its going to hurt to say the least. Its happened before and will no doubt happen again.
If this is your first "real" adult oriented airgun, either the R-9 or the HW 77 is an excellent choice. Both have plenty of power for what you want to do. The accuracy capability of these guns is greater than most average shooters can take advantage of. Some guys seem to think that under-levers and side-levers have an advantage because the barrel doesn't move, but in reality you can't tell the difference. In most cases its the shooter that makes the difference, not the gun.

If you're looking for a gun in the 1000fps range it'll have to be .177. You really don't need that much anyway. Most .177 pellets start to lose stability and therefore accuracy once they get past 850- 900 fps. If you want to hunt larger critters like gophers, .22 is probably the way to go. A .22 pellet has lots more hitting power. Thats not to say you can't do it with a .177, but its easier with more power.
The Beeman/HW guns are usually excellent quality pieces, and aren't cheap. The RWS/Dianas are good quality too, but sometimes not up to HW standards. When you're buying the gun, keep in mind you'll need to spend a bit on a scope and mounts if thats the way you're going to go. The best scope/mount combo I've used so far is the Leupold 3-9x33EFR AO airgun scope on either a Beeman 5039 or 5040 one piece mount. Figure $300 for a decent scope/mount combo. High power magnum guns like these will tear a cheap scope apart and eat it for breakfast, sometimes in no more than a dozen shots. Cheap mounts make for lots of frustrating accuracy problems as they will not hold the scope in place for long.

Now, all that being said, heres another choice- If you're willing to spring for the $500 price tag of the HW77, check out the Beeman R-1/HW80. Its just about the best thing going in spring guns. Get it in .20, thats considered to be the best caliber for the R-1. It comes in standard length and carbine length. The R-1C in .20 is pretty much unbeatable as an all-around plinker/hunter.
One other thing- you can save yourself a few bucks by buying the HW marked gun instead of the gun with the Beeman stamp. Usually you'll save about $50-70 by circumventing the Beeman markup on what is the same gun. The R-1 is the HW-80, the R-9 is the HW-95. Same applies to the HW77.

 
.20 R-1 Carbine, Webley Gold Series 4x40 scope and one piece mount



Offline ed1921

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Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2005, 12:02:19 PM »
A wouldn't disagree w/ anything Dave said.
I have a RWS model 48 in .22 that is easily the most accurate gun I own.
That includes center & rimfire. About 3/8" at 40 yards.
I put a RWS scope & mount on it & I've still had trouble keeping the scope from moving in the rings. I think I've solved that with extra lapping of the rings & upgrading the screws on the mount. The point is the recoil is tough on scopes though not on your shoulder.
Because of the scope problem I have often shot it w/ iron sites. I recently shot 2 squirrels w/ it at about 35 & 45 yards w/ the iron sites. It works on rabbits too. Longest shot was about 45 yards for a one shot kill.
The 48 is a side cocker. It takes a bit of effort to cock, but it's not to bad.
I've heard people say they are awkward, but I think it's a matter of getting used to it. I assume they have an accuacy edge, but I know barrel cockers can be plenty accurate. I always had an adversion to grabbing the barrel & bending it.
The advertised velocity is about 900 fps w/ standard pellets.

Offline sherpa

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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2005, 12:28:51 PM »
just buy the R9goldfinger combo, it comes with the scope already mounted and sighted in and if you buy from straightshooters .com it comes in a case at no additional charge. mine was $403.00 shipped and it will shoot into one hole at 10 meters with almost any beeman heavy pellet. i am very happy with mine it is very smooth right out of the box and straight shooters .com  =kevin and craig are very helpful
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Offline VictorLouis

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Re: Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2005, 05:46:32 PM »
Quote
1) Advantages / disadvantages of barrel cocking vs lever cocking?
Easier and less awkward to manipulate a break-barrel. Then, there's that safety issue that's exacerbated in lever-cockers.

Quote
2) Accuracy any different between barrel and lever cocking guns?
For the most part, it's inconsequential on a "quality" make of gun.

Quote
3) Any other considerations favoring barrel vs lever cocking?
The latter tend to be heavier, which would be more of a concern for field use, vs. your back porch or the bench.

Quote
4) 177, 20 or 22 caliber - pros & cons
Skip the .20, IMHO. The selection of guns that chamber it is limited, and so are the choices of pellets to feed it. Never mind the added expense when you can find .20 fodder. You can't find pellets at the local Wal-Mart, either, if you're running low...and are desparate. The heavier .22 is the preference toward hunting, but a head-shot with the .177 has been proven scads of times.

Quote
5) preference between Beeman and RWS? - I'm primarily interested in accuracy and of course quality of construction.
Both are importers. The best guns of both are German-made. You'll encounter a LOT of bias toward HW-Beemans over Diana-RWS guns. Don't believe any of it. :)

 Suffice to say, I think the HW's have but one, slight, edge. That is their Rekord(a design name) adjustable trigger. Can you tell the difference in the single-action pull of a Ruger and S&W revolver? Yes, maybe you can; but for most folks, it's a toss-up.

 Do try to handle examples of each, if at ALL possible. I'm one of those fellows who seem to "fit" the Diana guns better than the HW's.
   

Of your three, the R9 would be My preference. Then again, a Webley, BSA, or Diana break-barrel would be MY preference over the R9, LOL.
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Offline Airsporter

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Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2005, 12:27:59 PM »
Posts so far offer really good advise.  

Of the guns mentioned, I'd probably go with the R9 (a Herman Weihrauch HW95 with a Beeman label - Beeman is just an importer, they don't make anything).

Next consider a professional "tune" by someone like Russ Best using a Maccari spring:

http://www.airgunshow.net/Bestunes.htm

Last, don't make the newbie mistake of getting hung up on velocity.  A tuned sporter at 850-900 will beat the pants off a twangy 1000+ gun.

P.S.  For your stated uses, I'd probably go with the .177

Offline Airsporter

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Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2005, 11:38:33 PM »
This guy also has a great reputation for tuning springers:

http://www.paulwatts.netfirms.com/

Believe he's also a Beeman dealer, so you can order a tuned gun direct and save shipping to/from a tuner.

Offline Lawdog

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Re: Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2005, 02:11:29 PM »
Quote from: GKing
I'm an "old" retired guy. Want to buy a pellet gun, primarily for target and plinking, but also for small pests around the farm and an occasional squirrel.

I have decided to get a pretty good gun - something in the 1000 fps range. Considering Beeman R9, RW77, and RWS 48.

Here are my questions:

1) Advantages / disadvantages of barrel cocking vs lever cocking?

2) Accuracy any different between barrel and lever cocking guns?

3) Any other considerations favoring barrel vs lever cocking?

4) 177, 20 or 22 caliber - pros & cons

5) preference between Beeman and RWS? - I'm primarily interested in accuracy and of course quality of construction.

Thanks in advance for your advice

George


My answers.

1.]  Barrel cocking rifles can have what is called barrel droop.  This can happen even on the highest dollar rifles.  Underlever and side cockers have been long noted for their accuracy.  Example just look what is used in Olympic competition.  Newer underlever, side cockers and even barrel cockers now come with extra safeties to help keep accidents from happening when loading BUT even with these safeties one needs to use common sense to keep from ending up being called "stumpy" for short.

2.]  As stated in #1 underlevers and side cockers are noted for their accuracy.  I prefer the underlever but the side cockers are also good.

3.]  Not really.

4.]  Caliber choice is really depends on what you want to do.  Target work, small game hunting or a combination of both.  The .177 is usually used in target work because many of the targets used consist of a hole you need to put a pellet thru that measures .25”.  The .22 caliber is usually best when used for small game hunting.  It just hits harder.  The .20 is considered to be a good compromise for both target work and small game hunting.

5.]  Neither Beeman nor RWS manufacture any air guns.  Both are importers.  Both use more than one company to manufacture the air rifles they sell.  Beeman’s rifles are usually considered to be a somewhat better quality.  I will have to agree with that opinion.

Hope this helped.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline bckskin2

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Re: Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2010, 11:04:53 AM »
I'm retired guy wanting to move up from a Crosman 66 .177. Was considering a CO2 but looking at Benjamin pumper as the dealer has them. He also has a used under lever I may go back & look at. The .22 would be nice, but I have a 10/22 that will feed Remington CBees as a bolt action. Might be quieter than some springers.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2010, 11:13:27 AM »
  My grandson, (Ironglowjr) has a Beeman with both .177 and .22 barrels. I believe the .177 is good for about 1000 fps and the .22 good for 800 fps. He has shot everything up to possum and coon...he found that the .22 @800 is a lot more deadly than the .177 @ 1,000.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline bckskin2

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Re: Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2010, 01:33:02 PM »
That's a 392? Can inter change barrels? That would be super

Offline ironglow

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Re: Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 05:17:15 AM »
That's a 392? Can inter change barrels? That would be super

  The Beeman he got is available at Wally World. My grandson is a Marine armorer, so he is familiar with guns..served 2 deployments in Iraq and scores expert every time he goes to the range, so he can utilize rifles quite well. Here is a thread where he discusses his air rifle.
   His forum name is < Ironglowjr <:

   http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,171977.msg1098961297.html#msg1098961297
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline bckskin2

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Re: Some Advice Would Be Appreciated
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 07:35:16 AM »
In my younger days I used to drink with a WWI armorer at the Marine Corps League bar. He swore a Marine blew up an '03 by forcing an 8MM round in the chamber. Don't know if it was try but it was a heck of a story