Moly coated bullets, a second time.........

[John (Rojo)]

I tried a similar post on the General Hunting/Shooting forum - didn't get much of a response.  Either no one shoots or has shot or cares what moly coated bullets might do to barrels.  However,  I thought I would post on the bolt action rifle forum.....It seems more people monitor this area.  I could use the input.  
I've been shooting moly coated bullets in a 22-250 for a about a year now.  I wanted to know if any special cleaning is needed before I switch back to standard factory non coated bullets.  Also,  I would like to know if the proprietary coatings coming on many factory bullets now is the same as the moly coating,  or if it is something similar that replaces moly.  I care about my barrels,  and I want to make sure I do the right thing.

Thanks,  John (Rojo)

[Loader 3009]

Rojo,

Sorry I missed your previous post.  I am a big fan of moly-coating. I use the Midway/USA process and have been doing so for several years. It's messy and it's noisey but it works! Why would you want to go back to un-coated bullets?

If you must return to un-coated you'll probably want to thoroughly clean your bore with brush and solvent. You'll have to check your zero. Your groups will probably open up, If you load, you may have to revise your data.

I am unfamiliar with factory coated bullets and ammo and have heard a few gripes about them. Avoid that spray-on crap.

After a shooting session, I just run a dry patch through the bore...no solvent or brush. After a thorough cleaning, it takes about ten shots to get my groups back to normal. I try to hold my cleaning to every two hundred rounds or better.

I only use moly-coating on my bolt guns and single-shots. I do use it on my auto pistol rounds to insure feeding and did notice an increase in accuracy in my Firestar .40, but haven't had the time to explore the subject of hand gun accuracy and moly.

Hope this will be of some help.

Loader 3009

[Zachary]

I am a strongly against the use of moly coated bullets.  I have just heard to many bad things about them.  In fact, certain gun manufactuers, like Kenny Jarrett for example, may not warranty your rifle if you use moly coated bullets.  

As for cleaning, I have been told by several that, once you shoot a lot of rounds, then bringing the barrel back to its pristine state is extremely difficult, if not impossible.

You state that you have been using such bullets for about a year.  Have you ever been able to take out all of the moly coating in the barrel?

Zachary

[John (Rojo)]

Zachary,  At the time,  I was initially sold on moly by a benchrest/varmint  shooter.  I was told to let the moly build up,  and to just patch the barrel until the groups start to spread out.  When that happens,  do a thorough clean.  After about 300 rounds,  I noticed my groups opening up,  and I cleaned using a 50/50 mixture of Kroil and Butchs bore shine.  It seemed to work okay,  but I found I could only go about 125 rounds before they opened up again.  Either I did not clean the barrel thoroughly  enough,  or there will always be a coating I may not be able to completely get rid of.  I know some people have excellent luck with moly and swear by it.  I have decided to go back to shooting non coated bullets.  I know when the barrel is clean,  and there isn't any guess work.

Also,  if you know Zachary,  I have noticed some factory rounds coming with a coating on them.  Is it another form of moly,  or is it something similar that will not build up.  If it is a coating that will build up,  I want to avoid that.

Loader 3009,  thank you for your input.  I'm happy to hear moly works for you.  I just got tired of the bullet coating routine,  and I noticed decrease in the number of rounds I could go before it needed another thorough cleaning.  

Zachary,  let me know from your sources if there is a known way to completely clean my barrel w/o causing harm.

Thanks,  John (Rojo)

[264 WIN MAG]

Forget extra cleaning. I bullets without the coating in my 264 mag and it takes me from 3-7 days to get it clean again. I don't see how you guys do it.

[Zachary]

John,

Try the Barnes Cleaner (I think it's called X10 or CL10 or something like that - I have to go to my garage and take a look again.)

In any event, I use this cleaner for all of my rifles.  I have been told that people who shoot moly can use this also.  However, whether you use moly or not, please do not let the barrel soak for more than 20 minutes - otherwise, it could damage your barrel.  I normally let it soak for 10 minutes at a time, and repeat it about 3 of 4 times - depending on the amount of fouling.  Since you have moly coating - you may want to let it soak for up to 15 minutes, and repeat it about 10 times.

This is how you should do it:
1.  take a white patch, place it around the brush, pour the Barnes cleaner in it, and run it through the barrel and bring it back.
2.  let it soak for 15 minutes.
3.  Take the patch off, and run the brush back and forth about 5 times.
4.  Put on a new white patch, pour the Barnes cleaner in it, let it soak for 15 minutes.
5.  Repeat steps 1 through 4 until the barrel is clean - like I said, it may take 10 times, or more, to clean the barrel.

Zachary

[264 WIN MAG]

I DON'T KNOW I HAVE BEEN USING THE TOPPE'S NO.9. SEEMS LIKE IT TAKES ME FOREVER TO GET THE BARREL CLEAN.

[John (Rojo)]

Zachary,  

Thank you for the detailed reply.  I'm going to check the shops out here I do business with and see if I can get a hold of your recomended product.  It just might save me a future problem.

264 mag.,  this much I do know:  Hoppes is fine on powder fouling.  When it comes to removing lead and copper,  I have had good results with a 50/50 mix of Kroil and Butch's.

John (Rojo)

[Steve L]

John, the CR-10 that Zachery mentioned workes great on bore fouling as does Sweats 7.62 but be sure and follow his advice and DO NOT leave it in your bore for over 15 minutes. This stuff is much stronger (and quicker) than Butches Bore Shine but will do harm to your barrel if directions are not followed.

Also you stated that you shot 125 rounds before groups started to deteriorate. Curious as to why you would want to give up on moly with that kind of success? I do quite alot of shooting and can't imagine improving on that, in fact your last post HAS ME WANTING TO TRY MOLY COATED BULLETS in my small bores. :wink:

[KN]

I can go 250 rounds in both of my 22-250s before I have to clean. CR-10 is what I use also, works great. I never have to treat it more than twice durring a cleaning. I'm not talking about molly here, I'm not sold on it at all. Never read where there was any thing but a few fps improvement, and never read where it improved accuracy. I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm sure there are cases where it did. Just never could see where trading a good cleaning every couple hundred rounds for all the trouble of treating barrels and such with molly was any kind of improvement. Seems like extra work and expense for nothing.  Just my $.02   KN

[longwinters]

So then here is my question.  I suppose it sounds stupid, :oops:  but how do you know if a bullet is Moly coated.  I was given some Winchester Partition golds and the bullet is a dark grey color.  It does not say on the box that these are moly coated, but all other center fire bullets I have shot have been a gold color. Are the partition golds moly coated??

[Zachary]

Yes, the Partition Golds are moly coated.  If the bullets are black, or dark grey, then they are moly coated.  If you rub your thumb hard against the bullet, and it leaves a dark mark on your thumb, then its moly coated.

Zachary

[varmit_master]

Hi Zachary i have only shot the Win Sup S BT in my 22 250 i have only shot a half of a box or so  I needed to clean the bore good and i need to stay away from the Moly C  bullets i dont want to hurt my gun i alway heard it was to help u not hurt u i am glad i read this it is the end of Moly C bullets out of my new rifle thank u  

[ricktile]

I started using moly coated bullets several years ago on the advice of a friend that shoots a lot of bench rest.  I have been very happy with the results out of my 22-250 so far.  In the past I had to clean out copper fouling every 20 rounds in order to keep nice tight groups.  Now with moly I can shoot over 100 before they start to open up.  I have heard rumors that moly build up in your barrel can be bad after a while and increase pressure but have seen nothing factual to back that up.  If anyone has any information that proves moly will ruin your barrel I would like to know about it.  I really don't want to go back to having to clean every 20 rounds but will if I have to.

[mickey]

My experience has been that you use moly bullets only in a barrel, or non moly bullets only.  You cant mix moly and nonmoly in the same barrel.  If you want to stop moly you may never get your barrel clean again.  This has been my experience.

The gentleman with the 264 (I had a model 70 264 made in 1965 or 66)
may just have a very rough bore typical of the model 70 of that era.  He may have bought a used one with rough or burned out bore or done it himself unknowlingly. Its very easy to do with a 264 non stainless barrel.

I would suggest using JB bore compound, a mild abrasive, on a patch, wrapped around a 257 caliber new brass brush.  Ten passes with each patch, as many as 25 or 30 patches.  Followed by same process with Rem clean, a milder abrasive which also soaks copper fouling loose.  Specially formulated to do so.  This will work if its just a dirty or clogged bore.  If its burned out, it wont work, its time to rebore to bigger bore or rebarrel.

Winchester wont say what the coating is on their fail safe rifle ammo bullets.  Neither will the other companies.  I can say I have a Ruger which will shoot MOA at 200 yards all day with non coated bullets, opens to five inches at 100 yards with Fail Safe, returns immediately to MOA or less with typical bullets.  The only seriously invested bench rest shooter I know says once you start moly, stick with it till the barrel is conditioned, they clean with cleaners developed for moly.  Once you have gone this far, dont switch back, it wont work.  He does so so at bench rest, but is a national level competitor, past champion at 22 rimfire, so his experience and shooting contacts are pretty substantial.

If someone is only cleaning after 200 rounds they are waiting too long, or, they have one of the worlds finest slickest barrels.