Author Topic: New to CF loading... what's your .223 like  (Read 841 times)

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Offline whitedogone

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« on: January 09, 2005, 03:49:35 PM »
I'm getting into CF loading after 30+years of loading for shotshells. I had a guy give me a Lee press and another guy give me a set of dies for .223.  I have a scale thanks to Haywood and I have a calipers.  The calipers are Metric...I hope they will not be to much of a hassle to do conversions.  All this CF stuff is so different than shotshell.  I feel kind of lost to say the least.  I guess I will still need to get a priming tool and I will be up and running for a while.  What are you guys shooting in your Handi .223's?  I want some yote loads so I want to use a ballistic tip round.  I have been shooting the winny USA 45 gr hp value pack stuff.  So I guess those will be the cases I can start with.
Beretta S686 Sporting 12g 30"
Beretta Silver Pigeon Sporting 20g 28"
Ithaca (SKB) Model 500 Skeet 28g 28"
Browning BPS Syn. 12g 3.5" 26"
Browning BPS rifled w/ Pentax 2x5x20
Tikka M595 in .223 w/ Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40
Savage 93 in 17HMR w/ Mueller APV 4.5-14
Winchester 94 mint Built in 1951
Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2" 44 Mag

http://www.illinoiscarry.com/

Offline jeff223

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2005, 04:49:40 PM »
this is a max load Scott so i would reduce this load by 10 percent to start with

cci small rifle primer
27.5 gr  blc2 powder
55gr Nosler BT bullet
OAL 2.5 inch for my gun

the blc2 powder is a very good powder for the 223.you may want to try H Varget also for the 223.both work good but i prefer the blc2.you may find that your 223 will shot the best with a max load ,many 221,222 and 223 rifles shoot best there.i dont know why that is but its that way more often than not.good luck Scott with you reloading.

Offline handirifle

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2005, 04:53:48 PM »
Whitedog
I use H335 with 27.2gr behind a Hornady 40gr V-Max.  Haven't checked velocity, but easily sub-moa with this load in my 223 UV.  Can usually cover 3 shots with a dime, a nickle if I'm not doing my part.
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Offline JPH45

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2005, 07:16:59 PM »
Actually, I find CF a bit easier than shot shell. With shot shell you have to use exact components for a load, there is not minimum or maximum, nor substitution, everything is maximum, you have to load as stated, primer, hull, wad, shotsize.

With CF there is at least a little room to play. If you cannot find an exact component, start at the minimum or start load and work up. It is possible and actually frequently done, to substitute a primer or bullet for in  load for a given weight. Just be sure in substituting that you don't put a 55 grainer on a 45 grainer load. (there are a few exceptions, sounds like you may not be there yet) It sounds like the Winchester white box 45 grainer is THE load in the NEF 223, so working to duplicate it's performance is the place to start if it shoots well or very well in your rifle. In past, most anything we put together was better than what we could get off the shelf, these days it seems that the object is to beat the best the factory can make. I didn't read all the responses, so if I'm repeating what others have said, ignore as needed.....

Get a couple of reloading manuals, the Speer and the Lyman are good places to start, the Hornady and the Sierra with either of the above would be a good place too. Visit each powder manufactuers site and request a reloading manual. This will be a simple paper bound, often center stapled booklet with a selection of recipies for each chambering. These days a few are offering only a downloadable version, Winchester is an example of this.  You are going to see some variance from say a Winchester load published by Winchester and a load using the same powder/bullet weight by Speer for instance. Thats ok. What you want to look at are the similarities. Not how different they are but how alike they are. If there is a large variance, ie, Speer says 30 grains where Winchester says 35 for the same bullet weight (even though the bullets may not be the same) it is time to research further. A 5 grain difference in a 223 case is time to go?????? A 5 grain difference with a 45-70 may just be the difference in components and lab equipment and even the makers own judgement.

A bit at a time you will get a good handle on this. One must get is a chronograph. Without knowing the true velocity of your loads, you've no way of judging your pressures other than through very subjective methods. Once you begin working with a chronograph, you will understand more and more that in a given cartridge, "X" amount of velocity is produced by "X" amount of pressure. You simply ain't going to get a 150 grain bullet to go 3000 fps without being very, very close to 55,000 psi in a 30-06 regardless of the powder or the bullet. The bullet weight and velocity may vary a little for a 223 but the concept is the same. Velocity is the only real factor a handloader has to determine the saftey of their loads. Other pressure signs don't begin to occur untill you are getting  beyond safe limits. So if a bolt is sticky on lifting, you know you are well beyond the limit. In a Handi, a sticky case may not be a sure over pressure sigen, but a barrel that didn't readily fall open would sure be one, as would a primer that had completely lost the radius at the edge of the pocket.  

I have never questioned the strength of the NEF, and in 223 you have all kinds of built in strength. Stay inside or at the maximum listed loads and you will be fine.
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Offline jeff223

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2005, 03:01:34 AM »
thanks for adding some good info JPH45,sometimes when some of us respond to a question we are taking lots of things for granted and we should get into alittle more detail.when it comes to handloading a person should never take load data for granted.they should always check the data out before trying the load out on their own.lots of good info out there on the net from bullet and powder makers.

whitedogone,the Hornady V Max bullets work very good too.if i cant get the Nosler BTs and i need some bullets i get the V Max.they shoot to about the same zero as the BTs

Offline mrlizzzard

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2005, 11:43:28 AM »
I've had shotgun loaders and loaded plenty.What would the cost be for everything I need to load .223 for target and varmint?Is there a cost savings or just the fun with engineering the best load?

thx,
lizzzard

Offline JPH45

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2005, 12:45:39 PM »
mrlizzzard, That is a topic of it's own and your question deserves more than a simple answer at the bottom of another thread. How about posting a new topic, something like  "What do I need to start handloading for my NEF" You'll get evrything form the absolute minimum and simpliest of tools to the grand layout. But in such an thread, you will get a chance to see how others approach the subject and get to mix and match equipment and techniques and well. $100.00 will get you a pretty fair set up, for as little as $20.00 youcan make a used case go bang again, and from there the sky and your wallet are the limit. Ihope you post this, it's a good topic and one we ain't discussed in a while.
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Offline whitedogone

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2005, 01:18:13 AM »
JHP, I guess I should post something like that.  I know so little about it.  I would dought that a guy could load 223 any cheaper than buying it off the shelf.  I suspect that is not the case in some of the magunum CF stuff.
Beretta S686 Sporting 12g 30"
Beretta Silver Pigeon Sporting 20g 28"
Ithaca (SKB) Model 500 Skeet 28g 28"
Browning BPS Syn. 12g 3.5" 26"
Browning BPS rifled w/ Pentax 2x5x20
Tikka M595 in .223 w/ Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40
Savage 93 in 17HMR w/ Mueller APV 4.5-14
Winchester 94 mint Built in 1951
Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2" 44 Mag

http://www.illinoiscarry.com/

Offline jeff223

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2005, 04:47:38 AM »
when you handload for a rifle you will have many differant bullets to choose from rather than a select few offered in factory ammo.you can also taylor your ammo to fit your rifle.factory ammo is made to fit all rifles.if you are a high volume shooter there will be a saving to you over time.my 223 rifle has never seen factory ammo,well maybe at NEF when they test fired the rifle but that is the only time

Offline borg1

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2005, 06:14:39 AM »
i am beginning to develop loads for my .223 as well.  I neck size only with Collett dies on fire formed cases.  Thus, i've had to buy a bunch of factory ammo.  What a chore having to shoot them   :)

So far i've had ok luck with 52gr Hornady HPBT Match bullets in front of 24 gr of IMR3031 and cci small rifle primers.  Because the throats on those handis are so looooonnnnngggg i am seating these bullets to a depth consistent with an OAL of 2.35".  So far groups are mediocre, 1.5".  I might need to go with heavier (and longer) bullets, such as triple shocks, to seat further out safely.  However, then one runs into stability problems with bullets >55gr due to the 1:12 twist of handi rifles.

I am buying a pound of Varget to develop loads in my .308, but i see that Varget is also a good choice for the .223.  Someone mentioned BL-C2, that looks like a fine powder.  I am betting the light bullets do really well in these guns based on testimonies of the factory Winchester 45gr HP.  Those of you loading 40-45gr bullets, what are your results?

Offline JPH45

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2005, 12:53:38 PM »
Actually, if a fellow buys everything, jacketed bullets and all, the cost will be between 2/3 and 3/4 or so of factory cost. But like jeff said, the point ain't about saving money, it is about doing more shooting with the money you spend, and tailoring your loads to your rifle. For the cost of 10-15 boxes of ammo, one can buy the Lee Challenger kit, get dies, and primers. Bullets and powder will add 30.00 or so to the deal. One will then have everything needed to load your own. The challenger ain't the greatest kit out there, but it is the most economical, and a whole lot of people are using it to load with. It's what i;ve been loading with the last two years.

Most loading is very straight forward by the book kinda stuff unless you are shooting for a custom rifle with custom cut chambers and making your own cases, but even most of that is simply the addition of one or two things to the prep of your cases. If you can load shotshell, you can load metallic. The 223 is actually a very good place to start. It don't require a lot of powder, bullets tend to the inexpensive side and you can get really good deals on Remington and Winchester bulk bullets. The cartridge operates on several powders that are useful in other cases as well. Though not always, if there is an application for the powder in 223, it will likely work well in the 7-08, 270, 280 and 308, 30-06. A few will cross over into 30-30 territory as well. That doesn't mean that your 223 and your 308 will love the same powder, but the possibility certainly exists.

There really ain't a lot of secrets to metallic reloading, most everthing you need to know is in any good reloading manual. Get the equipment you need and then ask the others here what they are using for loads and start from there. Then once you get your feet good and wet, we'll teach you how to get 22 Hornet and even 22 LR performance from that 223. That is one of the great assets of reloading, using your equipment and skills to get the broadest possible range of performance from your rifle.
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

Offline JPH45

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2005, 12:56:20 PM »
Actually, if a fellow buys everything, jacketed bullets and all, the cost will be between 2/3 and 3/4 or so of factory cost. But like jeff said, the point ain't about saving money, it is about doing more shooting with the money you spend, and tailoring your loads to your rifle. For the cost of 10-15 boxes of ammo, one can buy the Lee Challenger kit, get dies, and primers. Bullets and powder will add 30.00 or so to the deal. One will then have everything needed to load your own. The challenger ain't the greatest kit out there, but it is the most economical, and a whole lot of people are using it to load with. It's what i;ve been loading with the last two years.

Most loading is very straight forward by the book kinda stuff unless you are shooting for a custom rifle with custom cut chambers and making your own cases, but even most of that is simply the addition of one or two things to the prep of your cases. If you can load shotshell, you can load metallic. The 223 is actually a very good place to start. It don't require a lot of powder, bullets tend to the inexpensive side and you can get really good deals on Remington and Winchester bulk bullets. The cartridge operates on several powders that are useful in other cases as well. Though not always, if there is an application for the powder in 223, it will likely work well in the 7-08, 270, 280 and 308, 30-06. A few will cross over into 30-30 territory as well. That doesn't mean that your 223 and your 308 will love the same powder, but the possibility certainly exists.

There really ain't a lot of secrets to metallic reloading, most everthing you need to know is in any good reloading manual. Get the equipment you need and then ask the others here what they are using for loads and start from there. Then once you get your feet good and wet, we'll teach you how to get 22 Hornet and even 22 LR performance from that 223. That is one of the great assets of reloading, using your equipment and skills to get the broadest possible range of performance from your rifle.
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

Offline JPH45

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New to CF loading... what's your .223 like
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2005, 01:10:54 PM »
Actually, if a fellow buys everything, jacketed bullets and all, the cost will be between 2/3 and 3/4 or so of factory cost. But like jeff said, the point ain't about saving money, it is about doing more shooting with the money you spend, and tailoring your loads to your rifle. For the cost of 10-15 boxes of ammo, one can buy the Lee Challenger kit, get dies, and primers. Bullets and powder will add 30.00 or so to the deal. One will then have everything needed to load your own. The challenger ain't the greatest kit out there, but it is the most economical, and a whole lot of people are using it to load with. It's what i;ve been loading with the last two years.

Most loading is very straight forward by the book kinda stuff unless you are shooting for a custom rifle with custom cut chambers and making your own cases, but even most of that is simply the addition of one or two things to the prep of your cases. If you can load shotshell, you can load metallic. The 223 is actually a very good place to start. It don't require a lot of powder, bullets tend to the inexpensive side and you can get really good deals on Remington and Winchester bulk bullets. The cartridge operates on several powders that are useful in other cases as well. Though not always, if there is an application for the powder in 223, it will likely work well in the 7-08, 270, 280 and 308, 30-06. A few will cross over into 30-30 territory as well. That doesn't mean that your 223 and your 308 will love the same powder, but the possibility certainly exists.

There really ain't a lot of secrets to metallic reloading, most everthing you need to know is in any good reloading manual. Get the equipment you need and then ask the others here what they are using for loads and start from there. Then once you get your feet good and wet, we'll teach you how to get 22 Hornet and even 22 LR performance from that 223. That is one of the great assets of reloading, using your equipment and skills to get the broadest possible range of performance from your rifle.
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc