POLL... Small Gun Shops vs. Wal-Mart

[bwana]

How many of you are aware of small gun shops that have gone out of business because of direct competition with Wal-Mart (Dick's, Gander Mtn, etc...) in your area.

I am trying to make a point about supporting the small shop owner.  And I think some perspective about the frequency that this happens is important.

bwana

[Nightrain52]

I used to think a lot of them closed because of Wal-Mart but I am not so sure anymore. Even the Wal-Mart store in my area carries a very limited inventory in stock. When I purchase a firearm I want to have it in my hands so I can look it over and check it out. The small town I live in has had 3 or 4 shops come and go in the last 5 years. Insurance, Federal regs, record keeping, and intimidation I think has done more damage to the small shop owner than Wallyworld has. Also we as a consumer can share part of the blame. We take a weapon that is malfunctioning to them to work on and have a fit over repair charges. The retail market is under going many changes. Inventory alone costs the little guy a fortune and he can't be expected to keep a large inventory to set on the shelves for a long period of time so he stocks the ones he thinks he can turnover the quickest. I love the little Mom and Pop places but they are a vanishing breed. CHALK IT UP TO CORPORATE GREED.

[Haywire Haywood]

I don't buy guns at Wal-mart. Period.  There are a couple gunshops around where I live that don't carry much inventory but are happy to order anything you want for $20 over cost plus tax. Neither offer repair services, just retail sales.  For repair I have to travel 90 minutes down the road.

Ian

[mrlizzzard]

I am feeling more and more guilty of buying at Walmart.I don't like their labor practices and all the chinese merchandise.But on the guns and ammo side they are a needed beast.Without Walmart the supposed little guy would not deter from slim inventories and gouging.
               I am 59 and have seen Wal mart and Cabelas,Gander etc. come to for.I also remember the the little emperor gunsmith in my home town who did nothing but get all he could especially in newbies.I remember when Penny's had a gun counter.
                I don't know the answer but if only the "little guy" had NEF Handi's they would be $350 and the win. 223's would be $20 per box instead of $12

just my opinion,
lizzzard

[hellacatcher]

I normally buy from who has the best price and service sometimes it is a gun shop sometimes it is Wal Mart or similar store. It is my pocket the mony is coming from. Last weekend I was at a local gun shop he had a used ulta 308 for 325.00 which sells at wally world for 230.00 now if I was wanting one where do you  think I would buy?

[lik2hunt]

I don't know the answer but if only the "little guy" had NEF Handi's they would be $350 and the win. 223's would be $20 per box instead of $12

Good point made here, I dont know about everywhere else, but right around here the small guys are still into gouging you and it doesn't even matter that they are less than 2 miles from Wally World and know their prices there. You couldn't get some of 'em to come down one precious red cent, others are negotiable.
Here's a bit of irony.......about the same time that I bought my Vanguard from Wal-Mart back when they were having the close-out/mark-down sale on them and the Savages, apparently this particular store had quite a bit of overstock in the gun department. Well I don't know the whole story but I do know that one of the local shop owners came in and made some sort of deal with the General Manager, not the sporting goods manager, and bought 22 guns at a ridiculously low price each. Caused the SG managers figures for the year to look really bad. And caused her to not even want to talk about marking any guns down anymore for a long time.

[Rogmatt]

In my area, I have seen small gun shops list used Handis for 275.00  to 375.00.  If they are used and someone pawned them,  I know the owner paid pennies for it. Price is alot in our country.  It is easy to say, "support the small gun shop" but if they won't price their guns fairly, they deserve to go out of business.  Most of them sell ammo at twice the price of big stores. That is uncalled for, and they must think I am stupid.  I would like to see some effort on their part to at least try to appeal to the folk shopping at Walmart by giving better pricing.  Market forces will decide where people shop.  I buy used guns all the time from small shops after beating them down on price. I could never buy a new gun at the small shops, it would be way overpriced.
They want us to listen to them, but will they listen to us and our concerns??

[DGrig]

This is an interesting discussion and my approach to Walmart and guns has been to first find out for how much Walmart is selling what I am interested in purchacing.  I looked at Walmart's web site to see their price on the new .223 I recently got.  Then I check the local shops.  If the local gun shops are within a reasonable amount, say $20, I will often buy from  the local gun shop.  But like many of you, I have found the small local shops to have rediculous prices.  I will give them a chance, but I will not go with them at any price.  I have also found Gander Mt and Bass Pro Shops to often (not always) have good knowledgable people behind the gun counter.  Gander Mt and Walmart are not the same.  Also on service, most small gun shops don't do service or I wouldn't want them to.  Usually, your best service is with the manufacturer or with a private gunsmith you trust.  Many things about Walmart I don't like, but price is not one of them.  I don't have cash to throw away, and ofter their price for new is less than gun-show used.  So in the end, my feeling is that I should weigh the options, and price is not the only factor to consider.

[Brett]

Insurance, Federal regs, record keeping, and intimidation I think has done more damage to the small shop owner than Wallyworld has.  

I would definitely have to agree with that.  The other thing is the Mom & Pop shops need to place more emphasis on providing services that the big chain stores don't,  such as gun repair, scope mounting & bore siting,  not on retail sales.  It is getting more and more difficult to find a good gun smith these days and I think that a small shop with a good smith could survive along side the Waly-Worlds and Sports Authorities.  Think of it this way; How many of us bring our cars back to the dealership when we need an oil change or a new muffler?  Most of us go to Jiffy Lube or Midas right? Most of the time they are on the same stretch of road as the auto dealerships and are doing just fine.

[Terrible Tom]

Most of the gun shops around here price their guns pretty competitively.  I paid $198.95+tax for my Handi-Rifle, and the shop had to special-order it.  I could have saved maybe $10 or so by going to Wal-Mart.  The small shops are higher on accessories & ammo.  I buy a lot of gun-related stuff from MidwayUSA.

Wal-Mart is not my favorite store for anything.  We have a Super Wal-Mart that carries groceries as well as the regular stuff.  They did cause the demise of one grocery store in town.  Downtown died decades ago, so you can't blame the Wal-Mart for that since they just built here in 1999.

It seems like every time I go to Wal-Mart looking for something specific, they never have exactly what I want.  OTOH, if I don't know exactly what I want, I can always find something to buy...

I've never bought a gun at a Wal-Mart or KMart, and I'll spend an extra 5-10% to support the smaller guy almost every time.  OTOH, when I can save $50 by shopping online, I do.  I recently ordered a BSA 6-24 Mil-Dot scope, a bag of 100 Winchester 22-250 empties and a Lee 3-die set for $140 after shipping.  At the local shop I would have paid >$175 after tax and would have gotten a 2-die set.  Saved $35 and got a neck-sizing die basically for free.

[Berger]

I talked recently with my local gun owner, when I was there buying my handi .223. I asked him about the local walmart and cabelas. His instant reply was that they bring more people to the area. So if he was getting a percentage of the customers..he's still getting the same percentage, but since there are more people he gets his share.

[AZ223]

I have yet to buy a gun at Wal-Mart, but if the difference in cost were great enough I probably would. I'm fortunate in that most of the gun shops here in Phoenix have good prices, in some cases even LESS than Wal-Mart! Bulk .22 ammo and little odds and ends I'll get at Wal-Mart, but most of my other purchases I get elsewhere; even groceries, which are cheaper at our grocery store chains.

[NE Hunter]

You may be giving walmart and the other chain stores too much credit.  I had an FFL and  I a had a renewal refused by BATF. I didn't sell enough guns to be called actively selling guns. A lot of us small dealers were weeded out during the Clinton Administration under the Brady Bill.  I only sold to friends ( putting guns in hands of people I knew were safe to have them) and another guy in town only sold to law enforcement personnel ( again people who are safe to have them)  I thought that's what the Brady Bill was about in the long run.  

I don't know current wholesale prices but I can tell you Wamart sells guns over the counter cheaper than I could get them delivered before shipping.

[deerman12]

I agree with Haywire Haywood.  I have tried to buy a few guns at Walmart.  It always turns into a nightmare.  First, the person always acts like you just killed there family when they have to call on something that is not in there crummy stock.  I had to put a deposit down once, gun never came, had to get money back.  The worst part is you feel like a gangster when they walk you to the front door with the gun.  I have local guy, usually charges 10% and knows me by name when I walk in the door.   The service is definitely worth something.  Walmart is okay for somethings, but I hate trying to buys guns at the Walmarts we have around here.

[gwhilikerz]

I have lots of kinfolk who work at wal-mart.  If nothing else wallyworld makes it possible for people to find work. Sometimes they are the biggest employer in a town. That counts for something with me. Sure they have chinese stuff, all kinds of imports, and even American stuff. I shop there and make no apologies for it.  Yes I have bought a couple of guns there, usually when I am just checking out their gun counters and find something irresistable. But most of my gun related purchases are at a local mom&pop&son shop, or Uncle Lee's (you guys from KY know where it is).
 I find the wal-mart clerks knows NOTHING about firearms so you better be able to point it out to them :grin: . Uncle Lee's are true professionals and know whereof they speak, but they don't carry used guns that often. The local gunshop is pretty good IF you get to talk with POP. He will show some interest in helping you get what you want reasonable. SON, on the other hand, couldn't care less. He points to the price on the gun, mumbles that's the best he can do, then goes back to his desk. I usually just turn around and walk out if junior is there (and he owns the place :grin: )

[Markus]

It seems this topic will nevver stop being debated. I hate walmart and I've bought a gun there. I go there all the time because it is cheap and convenient. I would always rather buy from the little guy but the gun I bought there (22-410 versapac) was 35% cheper than my usual shop. I've bought guns since from the shop when the difference wasn't so great. I've also bought a couple guns of gunbroker and gave the little guys my tranfer fee. The price difference is different with different munufacturers> look at the price of T/C for example . Walmarts price is the same as my shop. They don't automatically kill the little guy. The little guy can thrive next to walmart if he provides a reasonable price and superior service. We have a mom and pop grocery store that Does great with all of the major competitors within miles. I don't go there for ambiance and comradery, I go there because Terry will give me a good product for a fair price and a smile and thanks to boot. I can think of a number of places around here that are exactly the same.

[Critter]

Most of them sell ammo at twice the price of big stores. That is uncalled for, and they must think I am stupid. I would like to see some effort on their part to at least try to appeal to the folk shopping at Walmart by giving better pricing.

The local guys don't think your stupid.  They just can't even buy ammo for what Walmart charges for it.  I have worked in 3 gunshops over the years and have gone many times to Walmart/Gander Mountin/Kmart/Meijers/wherever to buy ammo becasue it was much cheaper than we could get it for.  How can you compete with that?  Answer, service, knowledge and respect, thats what the shops I worked in offered.  Gun sales make up little of the profit coming in the door.  It's ammo, accesories, and service/repair where the money is made.

[Greybeard]

I guess I don't see any "poll" in this thread or really a question for that matter. But as to my comments regarding Wal-Mart I've never bought a gun there. My wife bought me one for Christmas in '79 at K-Mart. Other than that all of the perhaps 400-500 guns I've owned have come either from real honest gun stores, individuals or gunshows.

The dealer I do business with is The Sportsman's Exchange in Gadsden, AL owned by Steve Andrew. You couldn't ask for a nicer guy to deal with. His is not a small store however. At any given time I go in there he usually has 3-5 employees in addition to him or his right hand man Kenny in there.

Steve never charges me a dime to accept a gun for me that I buy remote or that manufacturers send me. He only charges actually shipping cost to ship them for me. No charge to run the paperwork on them. Whatever I ask him to get for me he manages to locate and at a good price. His stock at all times is hundreds of both handguns and long guns. There is always something of interest there.

Oh yeah he gets way more than his fair share of my money.  :lol: When I need a gun I don't even think of going anywhere else.

[Big Blue]

I'm really trying my best not to buy Chinese. It's not easy anymore. At Walmart, the only place you don't see Chinese manufactured products, is the gun dept. I won't be robbed by a small dealership, but if he is even close to Walmarts price, I'd give him my business. A lot of the small gun shops were driven out of business during the Clinton years. My guess is that BATF really landed hard on them, at Executive branch orders. I consider myself very lucky to have a local gun shop that has great connections. He can get almost anything I ask for, at competitive prices. In another post, I noted that a Survivor cost me $20.00 more than Walmart's price. If that's what it takes to keep him in business, it's a small price to pay. While I was at his shop, he took the time to show me a pistol he just bought. It's a used Ruger Vaquero, in S.S., that's completely engraved, and not for sale. He also told me about a trip, Remington took him on. This guy is both friendly, and fair, traits that many dealers don't display. I've seen many that were cheats, know it alls, and condescending. Taking time only to take advantage of the unknowing.
I know I'm a bit long winded on this, but this topic struck a cord in me.
Don

[borg1]

I've never bought a gun from WalMart.  i buy lots of other things there, like hunting gear and some ammo.

All of the guns i own and have owned have come from sources that GB mentions, including the internet.  Lately, most of my purchases have been online at Midway or Natchez.

[Ditchdigger]

I go to my local gun shop at least 2 times a week,but I go to see what he has in used guns in the higher quality range. I've gotten many bargains in Browning Citori's and others but his plain jane Handi's are $289 and the Ultras are $320 plus tax.I buy my Handi's from a friend with aFFL for cost plus 10% and freight. Wholesale at Jerry's wholesale is $171 in the latest catalog for the Handi. I'm always to late at Walmart because as soon as it hits the rack,its sold.  Digger

[10ga.]

Cast my vote for Wal-Mart :wink: . I bought my 10 ga. and my syn. 30-06 there. I refused to pay $300.00 at a shop for a 30-06 that I could get for $212.00 out the door at W/Mart.

  The following rant is not meant to flame anyone, it is just my opinion :-)

 I have always found it interesting that the people who have a problem with buying guns from W/Mart don't mind filling up the rest of their home with items from there, and buying everything for their vehicle from there. There are still privately owned tire shops and mechanic shops out there but I wonder where their last cheap oil change or set of tires came from :?  There is a privately owned computer shop in this town that sells systems that are way more than the bundled systems found in W/Mart and Sam's. The computer I'm typing on now came from Sam's because it was the one that I could afford and costs almost half. I am the average hard working guy who will never get rich but just manages to stay ahead of the game. Until this changes I will shop where I get the best deal. As was mentioned earlier they also provide jobs for countless americans here.

Just my  :money:

[oneredbarn]

If I want to buy a special gun or looking for a used gun I hit the small gun shops or a friend has a gun shop that he will order what ever I want for $20 over his cost. If I want a NEF, Marlin, mossberg, or Charles Daily I go to Wal-Mart since my wife works there and get another 10 % off. Some of the gun shops around here are fair but we have some that are outrages and people still pay high prices for his stuff. He had a Handi 308 used for $295  :eek: Looking to get a Handi in 45-70 soon and I will go to Wal-Mart and pay around $160 for it.

[Flingarrows]

i have bought guns from both walmart and a private shop. i bought a 270 handi and 20 ultra slug from a place called mega sports, about 40 miles from my house. they are not a chain, but have a large shop with good prices and service. i have bought a couple of shotguns over the years fom walmart, because of cheap price and convenience.  the bottom line for me - price. it usually take me a long time to scrape up enough$$$ to buy a new gun, and a price increase of $40 could mean another month of saving

[Nuttinbutchunks]

Where I live we have Gunnies. I like them very much. I don't think their prices are out of line, and if you buy a rifle and scope they will bore sight it for you free of charge. I like that. The only gun I bought there is my .17 HMR sportster, and I paid $135 for it. I bought a Bushnell Banner scope at the same time. That's not too bad.

[MGMorden]

I buy a gun from Wally World when it suits me.  They don't carry everything though so I've bought quite a few milsurps online with my C&R, and a few other rifles online that I've had a local gunsmith transfer for me.

The two gunshops around here stink.  They overcharge for everything (I'm talking 40-50% more than Wal-mart, and 25-30% more than I could buy single quantities myself for if I had a class 01 FFL).  Their attitudes also stink.  They act like you're doing them some disservice by coming to their store.  How dare you take up their precious time.  IMHO both of them DESERVE to go out of business (and from the looks of it they will be pretty soon).  

I truly think that these types of things have more to do with these places going out of business than Wal-mart does.  When I was living in the upstate we had a place called "Grady's Great Outdoors".  WONDERFUL place with nice helpful and knowledgeable people.  It was well laid out, had a great selection of not only guns but anything else hunting/shooting related (reloading supplies, treestands, etc).  To top it off prices were only about 10% more than the super Wal-mart which was a mile down the road.  And guess what? This place was packed everytime I went to it.   I'd still go there if it weren't now a 4 hour drive .

The local gunsmith I mentioned above however, does not actually carry firearms, he just does repair and construction (and transfers).  He's always been courteous and respectful and he'll get all the work I can give him (even though he's 4x as far as one of those shops who does the same stuff for the same prices).

[bluebayou]

My two cents:
I work for WalMart.  I will buy wherever there is competent service and a good price.  Will I pay "extra" for being able to ask questions and get quality service.  You bet.  I am not one to quote Sam Walton, but... one of the company platitudes is "why should I pay extra for someone else's incompetence".  I agree with that.  Why should I pay extra because the local gun guy isn't enough of a business man to carry high profit items to offset low profit items.  Or to buy in quantity.  Or because he doesn't have enough sense to sell the inventory sitting on his shelf for 10 years that is just wasting away his cash due to inflation.  

I do not agree with the company's purchasing practices and some of their labor policies.  I will firmly agree that the overwhelming majority of our employees are not knowledge regarding shooting or firearms and that we have difficult procedures for purchasing a firearm.  

I don't want a gun store owner to kiss up to me and beg for a sale, but I do expect friendliness when I walk in the door.  Just don't try to rip me off and hey, why not try to earn my business for life?  I am blowing through some 308 and 223 ammo.

[stolivar]

I have found that most of the small ffl's think you are stupid or rich. they charge new prices for used guns. The new ones are about 40-50 percent more than wallmart. they want $22 for ammo I can buy at wallmart or bass pro for $16. I have not found but one place that will give you service and that is osage thrift shop in sedalia MO. Great place, and I do most of my gun buying from them.

steve

[Greybeard]

I have always found it interesting that the people who have a problem with buying guns from W/Mart don't mind filling up the rest of their home with items from there, and buying everything for their vehicle from there. There are still privately owned tire shops and mechanic shops out there but I wonder where their last cheap oil change or set of tires came from  There is a privately owned computer shop in this town that sells systems that are way more than the bundled systems found in W/Mart and Sam's. The computer I'm typing on now came from Sam's because it was the one that I could afford and costs almost half. I am the average hard working guy who will never get rich but just manages to stay ahead of the game. Until this changes I will shop where I get the best deal. As was mentioned earlier they also provide jobs for countless americans here.

I'll answer that.

My tires for the last 20+ years have come from a small locally owned tire shop in the neighborhood I used to live near. Now I have to drive a good ways to get there but still buy from the shop owner.

Oil changes are done at an Express Oil Change nearby or a the dealership where new vehicle's are purchased.

Mechanic work is generally done by the dealership but one of my neighbors is in the process of opening up a repair shop I can see from my front door. As soon as he gets open I have an '86 Ford F150 I'll let him take a look at.

I've never owned a store bought computer in my life. All are custom built by the same one man shop. He also does all of my computer repairs. Just last night while he was over fixing this one again I told him it's time for a new one so soon I'll have him make me another. Oh he's the blond haired kid in the Kool shades that goes by the title of WebMaster around here at GBO.  :eek:

[RonO777]

I only have two gun shops here. The smaller one is more of an outdoor shop with some guns and reloading supplies. The only thing that they really price close to retail is powder and primers. Dies, bullets and all other reloading supplies are twice what I can buy them online. The guns are mostly used I would say only about 25 percent are new. The new ones seem to be priced just a little above suggested retail. Ive never bought a gun from them but that is because they didnt have what I wanted and didnt offer to order it.
The larger of the two has a indoor pistol range. They have a lot of guns. Nothing for reloading. All of the guys from my shop have gotten a lot of guns from them. And its still hard to get them to help us when we come in. They will be happy to order a gun for you take your money and call you in a couple of weeks to tell you they cant get it. But they do have smoething close to what you want in stock. But not the gun you wanted. They have done this more than once to us. When I went  looking for a 10/22 one of the guys there told me to go to Walmart because it was cheaper. He was right about $100 cheaper.
The owners of the gunshop are gunsnobs, they think you should feel honored to be able to shop there an pay there high prices.
Now I buy my guns at Basspro, Gander Mountain, Walmart or Academy. I dont need to be told what gun I need. I want to buy the gun I want at a fair price. If the smaller shops go under its not because of the the Walmart's its because of there poor business practices.

Ron