Author Topic: 405 Win. Barrel for Handi or BC (Read 1307 times)

Justice Trimble · « **on:** January 13, 2005, 05:02:18 PM »

Hello, New to the system. Been surfing awhile but never logged on. But I came up with a question and maybe we can "chew the fat" with it. Has anyone ever rebarreled a Handi or a BC with a 405 Winchester? I suppose you'd have to have a barrel re-bored. If so, does anyone have an idea of which one to start with? I would love to see H&R, NEF bring out some really great old calibers like the 405 and others. But, if they don't we still have the 45-70. Thanks for answering.
Signed, a new guy on the block.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2005, 05:20:01 PM »

A .35-55 barrel would be the place to start. It's the largest diameter offered that's smaller than the .405 needs. Save you a tidy bit on reaming charges.

handirifle · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2005, 07:11:48 PM »

I think a 405 would be a great round, not sure of the SAAMI pressures though. Is it below 50K psi?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2005, 08:27:27 PM »

Looks to be about 45k max.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/405win.php

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2005, 05:24:02 AM »

Kinda like this?
http://home.bak.rr.com/jslayer/BGR.jpg

I've been pestering H&R for about a year, asking for a .405

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2005, 06:10:06 AM »

Now there is a caliber that I would deffinately like to add to my stable.... but factory ammo at about $1.60 each.. :shock:

Cottonwood · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2005, 06:37:18 AM »

The price I got from Buffalo Arms Brass Price for .405 Winchester is 0.95 cents each and if you want a 50 count box of same brass it is $37.00

Now since showing this beauty your teasing the rest of us.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:10:50 AM »

Now this is one that I could go for...the brass should last a good long time...I wonder what kinda velocity one could get with a rechambered/rebored 38/55...this just might be my Summer project...just think...I could walk softly...and would have a "Big Stick" to carry :wink:

Montanan...what would be the best twist for a converted 38/55 Handi barrel...and what do you think the cost involved would be for the conversion?

Mac

handirifle · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2005, 08:19:51 AM »

I read somewhere the 405 shoots a 300gr slug at about 2100fps, I think.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2005, 08:29:32 AM »

Muzzle Velocity: 2200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 3224 ft. lbs.
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/595630

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/814237

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2005, 08:38:55 AM »

Quick:

I don't have the latest Hornady manuals...what barrel lenght are they basing their published velocities on???

Mac

fish280 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:01:35 AM »

i like the idea. it appears .41 mag bullets would work for plinking.
then again, a .38-55 barrel fitted to an sb2 receiver could come close to those ballistics with judicious handloading would it not? using .375 winchester brass?

Cottonwood · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:10:55 AM »

Quote

Montanan...what would be the best twist for a converted 38/55 Handi barrel...and what do you think the cost involved would be for the conversion?

I would have to say that a 1:14 twist would be best given the load data that is available. Winchester also had in their catalogs an available 1:10 rifling twist. The .405 Wichester round itself is similar dimensionally to the earlier black-powder .40-72 WCF

I have a call into my gunsmith to see if he would or could do this as far as converting the 38-55 Target Model into the .405 Winchester.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:21:09 AM »

Please let me know...I think it would be a Hoot ...and certainly a fine cartridge to hunt with...very similar to my 300 grain Nosler load for my 45-70...

Mac

Cottonwood · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:34:59 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700

Please let me know...I think it would be a Hoot ...and certainly a fine cartridge to hunt with...very similar to my 300 grain Nosler load for my 45-70...

Mac

Mac, actually myself if I were doing a cartridge conversion, I would keep is as simple as possible. And for me because I know what it can do, and would not have to puchase any other reloading dies etc would be to ream a Buffalo Classic barrel up to 45-90 and have the barrel cut and crowned at 28"

Classic Cartridge Report: Shooting the .45-90 WCF of course this was written by Mike Venturino one of my favored authors and writers on the subject.

But when I hear back on what the charge would be to have the 38-55 Target Model done I will let you know.

My Gunsmith is Big Sky Gunsmithing 406-756-1670 Timber Stevens owner and gunsmith. Timber does 100% all my gunsmithing.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:36:38 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700

Quick:

I don't have the latest Hornady manuals...what barrel lenght are they basing their published velocities on???

Mac

Me neither, I sent em an email, I'll post their reply. The ballistics are from their web site.

Tim

Cottonwood · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:58:03 AM »

Hodgdon Reloading Data .405 Winchester and they are using a 24" barrel

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2005, 11:52:44 AM »

Montanan:

Thanks for the link...got it bookmarked now...

Mac

Fred M · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:14:24 PM »

Mac.
That 405 is a pretty hefty number. It should good for the big boars.

400 gr bullets at 2000 + is serious medicine. I got to look the cartridge up in my Winchester book. I know it has an impressive record. But I think I stick with the little 25 and 100gr bullets.

Went to the gun store the other day and came across a box of 100 .458 400gr lead bullets. Man, the weigh nearly 6 lbs. for a minute I thought the box was glued to the shelve. :lol:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:50:02 PM »

That's what I was thinking Fred....since I already have a 45-70...wanting another Classic Cartridge...isn't such a bad thing :wink: ...I loved reading about ole T.R. over on Safari...carrying his Big Medicine...granted...it wasn't a Handi...but one can still daydream a-little :-D

Mac

JPH45 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:53:31 PM »

The easiest way to get 405 Winchester peformance from a Handi is to rechamber a 44 Mag barrel to 444 Marlin. The two are ballistic twins, driving 300 grain bullets to circa 2200 fps. There are some good 44 bullets out there up to the task and the cost would be minimal compared to having a barrel rebored. The 1:38 twist can be a little finicky, but it handles a couple of 300 grainers well in my 44 Mag, and adding velocity will only add to the bullets stability. As well, Speers 270 Gold Dot will do most anythig one would ask from a 300. This would be a dynamite combination.

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2005, 07:24:44 AM »

By the way, that BGR pic is my pet "Hog Buster" in .356 Winchester. Not that I'm trying to open another can of "What-if?", but as long as we're talking about a .405, if H&R changed the twist in the .357, a .35 Winchester could easily be made.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 15, 2005, 07:41:35 AM »

JPH:

Yessireeee...the 444 is a pretty awsome round too...but for the Nostalga of it...I think the 405 would be nice...and something most certainly different :wink:

Mac

Fred M · « **Reply #23 on:** January 15, 2005, 09:43:48 AM »

Mac.
Yes there is not much stigma attached to the 444 let alone history.
Yes the 405 Winchester automatically lets you think of T.R. and
his famous leaver actions M 1876 at least three of them. Same as the 45-70 and the buffalo hunters. These guns have a ring to it .

If you just want to duplicate the power of a 405 there are multi ways of doing that. Go for the 405 Winchester.

.

Doubletap · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2005, 01:46:48 PM »

The big advantage the 405 has over the .444 and even more so over the 45 cal.s is sectional density. The 300 grain .411" is a real big game bullet, where the 300 gr. 45's are basically deer slugs. Read John Barsnes's article on the 405 in the last issue or two of Rifle and you'll get an idea of what it will do in a modern action. 400 gr. at 2000 fps or a bit better. Essentially equals the old 450/400 3" and 3 1/4" NE's. I'm not sure the little Handi's will hold up to heavy recoil like a No. 1, but just using factory equivalant loads gives you a ready to go for the biggest game on the continent You really need to get into a 500 gr. plus slug to equal the sectional density of the 400 gr. 411". I haven't run the numbers out yet, but I think you'd need something over 400 gr. to equal the 300 gr. slug. The fact that the 405 can use 41 mag bullets for light game like deer, or for plinking or small game purposes just adds to the appeal to me.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2005, 02:01:57 PM »

, Welcome aboard Justice Trimble, you really started an interesting thread wtih your first post, Congratulations!!!!....<><.... :grin:

Justice Trimble · « **Reply #26 on:** January 15, 2005, 04:38:41 PM »

Well, thanks for all the feedback and input guys. I got lucky picking a really good topic for my first thread. I suppose the pressures of the 405 would be quite high. Do you think the BC or Handi could handle it? If not, how about lengthening the 45-70 to a 45-110? Has anyone tried that yet?

oneredbarn · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2005, 05:04:18 PM »

I have been thinking of this rebore to a 405 for a while now. With the 28 inch barrel and a scope it should be a fine shooting rifle. Some people say the 38-55 has a loose bore for jacketed bullets you could rebore and take care of that. And since T?C offers one for the encore we need one for the Handis as well.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** February 02, 2005, 07:06:33 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700

Quick:

I don't have the latest Hornady manuals...what barrel lenght are they basing their published velocities on???

Mac

I just got a reply from Hornady on the test barrel lenght....24"

Tim

fish280 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 03, 2005, 06:27:19 AM »

the 405 sounds fine - and complicated with a complete re-bore. how about re-chambering a 38-55 to 375 jdj for more medium bore juice? the jdj easily would clean out the 38-55 chamber. would pressure be an issue? only if you crank it to the nth degree.