Author Topic: Anybody else want to hunt, but not want to kill? (Read 2172 times)

redd7 · « **on:** January 14, 2005, 06:42:24 PM »

Not trying to be a wise guy or be flame bait here. Does anyone else like guns, the outdoors, and to hunt, but feel badly about killing? I am not a vegetarian, how ever I don't really care for the taste of game.
I do think that a hunter should eat what they kill, or atleast make sure that it does not go to waste.
I have never actually taken any big game but I have killed squirrels and prairie dogs in the hundreds, and it makes me feel kinda bad when i think about it. I love how beautiful animals are. I enjoy watching the hunting shows but feel bad when the animals are shot.
Am I a woose or what?

jh45gun · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2005, 07:10:26 PM »

Don't know what to tell you? If you do not like Killing think it as harvesting. DO you get sad about the cows, pigs, and fowl that you eat every day? I bet you just love the way the Nuge talks! :eek: It is all part of nature and consider us preditors and if we do not harvest them by hunting they will die some other kind of death and some maybe not so humane. Getting run over by a car is no picnic and worse than the swift kill of a well placed bullet. I think most hunters regret at one time or a other taking life but know it is for a reason. DO you feel the same way about fish? Some folks have the bambi syndrome who hate killing animals yet catch fish but the washtub full. Not much difference dead is dead no matter what it is. Myself I love to hunt and fish and the death of the creatures I harvest are part of that but then is that not why GOD put them on earth for anyway to harvest to eat and to enjoy when they are alive. Even shooting pest is a neccesary thing like Prarrie dogs as if they are not thinned out they do to much damage and over population kills them anyway by disease. A fast bullet is a better way to go than that. SO if this did not help I do not know what to tell you.

BamBams · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2005, 09:03:13 PM »

This could turn out to be a very interesting thread.

I'll confess something here. Back in the 1980's I shot so much game and had more meat than my family could eat. I started giving it away to everybody.

I even wiped out an entire squirrel population from a nearby forest. Hundreds of squirrels.

I think I was trying to prove something without even realizing it. I felt so bad when it occurred to me what I'd done, that I didn't hunt again until the 1990's. I still feel bad about it. These days, I won't kill it unless I NEED it. I don't kill for fun anymore. Animals are not humans, but they do carry within them the breath of life. I've learned to respect that - the HARD way.

I think you are perhaps the only person I've met who knows this feeling just as I do. You are NOT a wooose. Quite the opposite!

george · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2005, 10:11:08 PM »

Quote from: redd7

Does anyone else like guns, the outdoors, and to hunt, but feel badly about killing?

My hunting buddy (and myself) are a bit like you... so we just make the right choices. We feel nothing bad for eradicating vermin from farms etc., have you seen what a few wild pigs can do to a crop on a farm?

Our next aim is buffalo... we're not trophy hunters so when we have the cash we'll book with a guide that hunts native land up north on the coast, the local tribes follow a few hours behind the hunting parties, make full use of the carcass, plus they make $$$ from selling trophy fees to people like us.

williamlayton · « **Reply #4 on:** January 15, 2005, 12:29:51 AM »

I can't fault the thought or slander the thinker. I think you are pretty right on about some of your thoughts. I may disagree with the amount of guilt you feel and wonder if it is being a little to hard on yourownself. It is your feelings and I respect that.
Blessings

OrangeWing · « **Reply #5 on:** January 15, 2005, 02:15:06 AM »

When I was younger I used to hunt ALL the time and shot a ton of game. But, something has happened over the years. I guess I just enjoy watching the wildlife more then killing it. It doesn't bother me at all seeing killed animals or hunters shooting game animals. I still shoot a ton because that is something I also enjoy. We are a free country and each of us have our own reasons for what we like to do. Mine just seems to be blasting away at the range or back yard & watching the wildlife while out it the woods.

bgjohn · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2005, 02:18:58 AM »

Take up rifle or pistol silhouette shooting. Or just shoot coyotes, jackrabbits, etc.
JM :-)

Brett · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2005, 03:33:03 AM »

Redd7
My thoughts on the subject run along the same lines as WilliamLayton's and I don't think that I could word it any better....

Quote from: williamlayton

I can't fault the thought or slander the thinker. I think you are pretty right on about some of your thoughts. I may disagree with the amount of guilt you feel and wonder if it is being a little to hard on yourownself. It is your feelings and I respect that.
Blessings

I don't relish killing but I do like to hunt and do enjoy eating wild game. I see it as a package deal kind of like going to the gym... I don't love to sweat or have sore muscles but i enjoy being fit. Have you considered taking up wildlife photography and saving the firearms for the range?

magooch · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2005, 03:46:40 AM »

Redd7, you're not alone. I hunted and fished when I was a youngster, but I haven't done either for more than forty years. I love to shoot, but I have absolutely no desire to kill anything. Well that's not entirely true; there are some two legged creatures that I could dispatch without giving it a second thought.

Anyway, I am not some kind of PETA person; I have no problem with hunters, or fishermen. I actually admire the enthusiasm that most hunters and fishermen have for their sports. I also admire their ability to put food on the table without having to be completely dependant on others.

redd7 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2005, 03:50:21 AM »

I appreciate everyones feedback. To clarify, I don't think what I feel is guilt so much as There seems to me to be something in congruent with hunting down something as majestic as a monster bull elk and then destroying it. I suppose that it is only natural if you were to look at it as harvesting, to try and harvest the best that is available.
I do think that it is hypocritical if some one eats meat but is not willing to pull the trigger themselves.
As I write this I guess there is some guilt as I do enjoy and get excited when I kill for no other reason than finding the game and making a good shot.

Brett · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2005, 03:56:37 AM »

Redd7, I think I would descibe your feelings as awe and respect for God's creation. There is nothing wrong with that in my book. :agree:

Mauser · « **Reply #11 on:** January 15, 2005, 04:13:06 AM »

I sometimes have thoughts like yours. I think any hunter who gives no consideration to the act of killing is a little "out there". I think it is better to always make sure one uses as much of the animal they kill as they can or at least have a positive purpose for the killing. Eradicating vermin is a positive purpose IMHO.

Lucky for those of us who have these thoughts that there are plenty of non-lethal activities to engage in with firearms.

BamBams · « **Reply #12 on:** January 15, 2005, 07:52:38 AM »

For me, it was clearly an abuse of power. The men in my family, and even some women, put such an aura around hunting prowess that I subconsciously had to prove to everyone, even myself, that I was a man's man. A whole lotta animals had to die before I was satisfied. It took 28 years of living for me to realize those folks were so ignorant and that I had just followed suit. Just to clarify.....imagine you're a kid coming home from high school during the month of may to find your Dad, who makes over $100,000 a year, and your brother-in-law, are both skinning a fawn in the garage with the door down. I come from a line of proud poachers I'm sad to say.

I have regrets, but I'm sure the squirrel and deer populations are back up by now. I've become a guy who has to be convinced that he's justified when taking any mammal life. Being hungry or broke is plenty of justification for me, but I could never, ever be a trophy hunter, and I don't believe all challenges a man needs to take in this life need to result in the death of something. God says to be a "GOOD steward." That's my goal anymore. Taxidermists can't make a dime off me. *laugh* Having said all that, I have friends who trophy hunt, but I stay home.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #13 on:** January 15, 2005, 12:36:10 PM »

Quote from: BamBams

imagine you're a kid coming home from high school during the month of may to find your Dad, who makes over $100,000 a year, and your brother-in-law, are both skinning a fawn in the garage with the door down.

Dali Llama say he curious why someone of such means would poach, as they certainly not be starving? :?

ironglow · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2005, 12:45:40 PM »

As I grow older, I do mellow more...a couple more years and I'll reach my seventh decade here; Lord willing.
I still hunt but do not relish the "killing" ..never did....but I always enjoyed the hunting ...and still do.
Anyone that can truly say "I enjoy the killing of game animals"...I would start to be concerned about.
Still, God made us stewards of the animals, and most of the time we are good stewards.

I'll not condemn anyone that says they don't like hunting, they have a right to feel that way; It's when they start to say they don't like MY hunting, is when the fireworks start.

I don't eat EVERYTHING I shoot...rarely eat woodchuck and don't care for crows and certain other pests.
You can rest assured that carcases left in the woods WILL be eaten...don't forget the food chain.

I honestly believe that age, wisdom and abiding faith in Almighty God mellows us and makes us more gentle and kindly...

Yet again; as much as I don't condemn a person that opts out of hunting, I won't condemn anyone who pursues it in a vigorous (and legal )way...

Perhaps "hunting with a camera" is an ideal pastime for you!

I spoke to a local radio "Talking head" a few years ago...on the air.
Although he admitted that he was not a full vegetarian; he was berating hunters on the air for killing "the dear little squirrels and deer".
He pictured squirrel hunting as being like shooting squirrels as tame as those he saw in the city parks.

I asked him ,"John, you have a steak, burger or some fried chicken now and then don't you ?"
He replied in the affirmative...

Then I said, " Well John.... the only difference between you and me is that I kill some of my own meat... and you just hire a " HIT MAN" for all of yours"!.

He didn't think it was too funny...but he had trouble refuting the logic!...LOL

FWiedner · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2005, 01:41:07 PM »

Quote from: redd7

Not trying to be a wise guy or be flame bait here. Does anyone else like guns, the outdoors, and to hunt, but feel badly about killing? I am not a vegetarian, how ever I don't really care for the taste of game.
I do think that a hunter should eat what they kill, or atleast make sure that it does not go to waste.
I have never actually taken any big game but I have killed squirrels and prairie dogs in the hundreds, and it makes me feel kinda bad when i think about it. I love how beautiful animals are. I enjoy watching the hunting shows but feel bad when the animals are shot.
Am I a woose or what?

The taking of another life is never something that should be taken lightly, and that is the logical conclusion to a sucessful hunt, the taking of a life. Any man who doesn't feel a pang of conscience at seeing a fine animal lying dead at his doing is simply not human.

It doesn't make it any easier on the heart to apply the very real considerations of sound game and population management, even though those several considerations save the lives of many more animals through managed game seasons, bag limits, and herd culling than are taken through subsistence or sport hunting.

Two considerations on hunting: You are enjoying your hertiage and an honorable American tradition in hunting. You are helping to manage the herd and to ensure that the game population remains healthy and viable through the difficult seasons of the year when forage may not be available.

You don't have to kill, but there are times when it must be done, and by picking up a gun and heading into the woods at certain times, you assume some responsibility to do what must be done.

I believe that a man makes a conscious and informed descision to kill, or not kill, because it must be done as a logical end to a deliberate pursuit, or in response to a clear and present danger.

The ability to kill is a poor measure of a man. Any coward or careless idiot can pull a trigger because of fear, anger, or stupidity.

Does not enjoying killing make you a woose? No, it makes you a reasonable representation of a human being.

Are you less of a man for feeling that way?

Only you can answer that question.

Ron T. · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2005, 03:19:55 PM »

To paraphrase a parable...

"When I was a young man, I thought and spake as a young man"... but now I, like an earlier poster (Ironglow), am approaching my 70th year... and I have mellowed considerably.

While I still hunt, I no longer "like" the killing, I don't mind if others do it as long as they respect the "life" they took... and they eat what they kill or, at least, see that it's not wasted.

But... for me... hunting is enjoying the solitude and listening to the sounds of the woodsÂ… the Â“moaningÂ” of the wind through the bare limbs of the trees. It's PARTICIPATING in the "tradition" of hunting and reveling in the camaraderie of my sons and my close friends at Deer Camp.

ItÂ’s the Â“clinkingÂ” sound of the cartridges as I put them into my rifleÂ’s rotary magazine. ItÂ’s the Â“ta-chunk-clunkÂ” sound of the action as I lever a round into the rifleÂ’s chamber and set the safety. ItÂ’s the heft of my 50+ year old Savage lever-action rifle as I swing it onto my shoulder and settle the wide part of the carrying sling in Â“that placeÂ” that God put in a manÂ’s shoulder for that purpose.

Yes, itÂ’s a Â“man thingÂ”Â… itÂ’s Â“traditionÂ”Â… and thank the Good Lord we have it to enjoy.

You seeÂ… Â“huntingÂ” isnÂ’t about DEATH, itÂ’s about LIVINGÂ… and TRADITIONÂ… and those things that are so very private and important to usÂ… those things we rarely talk about, but honor so much.

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

powderman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2005, 04:59:08 PM »

I've hunted since I was old enough to ride on my dads shoulders. There were many times that we might have gone hungry if we hadn't caught it, or killed it. We ate wild game year around. Hunting was not just a sport, it was a way of life. My Dad worked hard all of his life but in small town ILL it took a lot to raise and feed 5 kids. We NEVER went hungry, but we did eat a lot of small game. Rabbits, squirrels, lots of fish, even young groundhog. My Dad never trophy hunted, neither have I, I hunt for meat. I have never taken any particular pleasure from killing an animal, just the satisfaction that I now had meat. I'm so glad that this has come up, I have a lot more insight into the minds of my friends here, and we seem to think alike on this subject. I NEVER take a shot unless I'm sure of a quick, clean, kill. I have respect for the life I have taken. I enjoy watching wild game of all species, and help them all I can, but when it's time to make meat, I do it quickly, and cleanly. My brother never liked to kill anything. He wanted Dad to be proud of him but always seemed to miss his target. I know our Dad understood, and was proud of him too. Doesn't take a big man to kill an animal. POWDERMAN.

clodbuster · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2005, 05:06:02 AM »

None of the postings on this thread surprise me in the least. It is reflective of the vast majority of us hunters. The people who have never hunted and killed game haven't had the opportunity to measure their feelings about killing an animal like the hunter has had. I've read native americans felt the same way and asked the spirit of the hunted animal for forgiveness for having to take it for food. If this really true it's just the same thing as we're all saying here. This is one of the most uplifting discussions I've ever read on this or any other website.

BamBams · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2005, 05:14:00 AM »

Quote

Dali Llama say he curious why someone of such means would poach, as they certainly not be starving? :?

Exactly. I don't know if I'll ever get it figured out.

Cowpox · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2005, 06:47:10 AM »

Well redd7, As you can see by responses from all the gentlemen who have answered your question, you are not the only one who feels some sort of "twinge" when standing over your slain quarry at the conclusion of a successful hunt. By looking on it as guilt, I think you are being a little hard on yourself. Remember the beginning of the 1992 remake of "Last of the Mohicans"? Hawkeye, Uncas, and Chingachgook ran down and killed a nice buck. Even though their very existence depended on the killing of this buck, there was no celebration. Instead, Chingachgook lead them in a sort of prayer, in which they expressed remorse for the bucks death, apologized for killing him, and thanked him for passing his strength on to them. It was not guilt, but a show of total respect for the fallen animal. This is what you are feeling, along with every other member of this forum. It is what is necessary in all hunters who are true sportsmen. Respect for the quarry is what keeps us from taking chancy shots where we may not get a very quick, fairly painless kill. You keep right on hunting, but learn to recognize that what you feel about the death of your quarry is RESPECT, not guilt. Know that you are among good company. No slob hunters have what you are feeling. All sportsmen do ! Cowpox

Dali Llama · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2005, 06:58:58 AM »

Quote from: Cowpox

Know that you are among good company.

:grin: Amen, say Dali Llama. :grin:

jrdudas · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2005, 07:04:12 AM »

This is an excellent thread and I thank the original author and all of those who have responded. I have never been interested in hunting but I have no desire to stop others from hunting legally. I have been around guns for most of my life, but my extended family were not hunters; hence I did not become one. Having said that, I can also say that in the face of mortal danger to me or one of my family I would not hesitate to shoot the one delivering the threat.

As a 10 or 11 year old while staying on my aunt's farm I learned a good lesson. My cousin who was four years older was permitted to use the family guns. I convinced him that we should go shooting with the intention of killing something. He finally agreed, and we went out to the fields and he sighted in on a bird. It seemed like several minutes passed and he didn't pull the trigger; I said "what are you waiting for". Finally he did fire and the bird fell. We found it in the field and my cousin said to me "well there you have it; did that bird ever do anything to us to warrant our killing it" Of course my answer was "no". The more I considered what we had done, the more I realized that the ability to do something, and the need to do something are two different things. I have always been a target shooter of one type or another, and have hit many clays, bottles, cans, and other targets, but I have never forgotten the lesson my cousin taught me that day.

John

Dali Llama · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2005, 07:27:46 AM »

Quote from: jrdudas

As a 10 or 11 year old while staying on my aunt's farm I learned a good lesson. My cousin who was four years older was permitted to use the family guns. I convinced him that we should go shooting with the intention of killing something. He finally agreed, and we went out to the fields and he sighted in on a bird. It seemed like several minutes passed and he didn't pull the trigger; I said "what are you waiting for". Finally he did fire and the bird fell. We found it in the field and my cousin said to me "well there you have it; did that bird ever do anything to us to warrant our killing it" Of course my answer was "no". The more I considered what we had done, the more I realized that the ability to do something, and the need to do something are two different things.

jrdudas be wise man, opine Dali Llama. :-)

ironglow · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2005, 07:58:44 AM »

INCREDIBLE!!!

Gentlemen; here we have all gone on for nearly a quarter of a hundred posts and there is no major disagreement.....even among us old curmudgeons that often disagree!

Thanks; and kudos...this is the " brotherhood of shooters" that the gun grabbers just don't understand..

Ron T.;
That parable you are paraphrasing comes from the Bible ( I Corinthians 13:11):

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

vs. 12 "" For now we see through a glass , darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

This perhaps the most beautiful piece of pure literature in the Bible...to say nothing of the importance of the message!

Universities; if they are not too bigoted, will often cite this as one of the most beautiful pieces of prose anywhere ( includes all of ch. 13).

The last verse, vs. 13 concludes with:

" And now abideth faith, hope, and love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

Some versions use the word "charity" in place of love...which is the same word interpretation wise...

FWiedner · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2005, 08:50:18 AM »

Quote from: Cowpox

...This is what you are feeling, along with every other member of this forum. It is what is necessary in all hunters who are true sportsmen. Respect for the quarry is what keeps us from taking chancy shots where we may not get a very quick, fairly painless kill. You keep right on hunting, but learn to recognize that what you feel about the death of your quarry is RESPECT, not guilt.

An insightful examination of an enigmatic emotion, sir.

Well done, and Thank You.

:grin:

redd7 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2005, 09:04:47 AM »

Thank you all for your insight and comments. Considering how people are portrayed in the media. I feel encouraged by the comments of what I consider good, responsible, moral people.
Thank you

Dali Llama · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2005, 10:19:33 AM »

Quote from: redd7

I feel encouraged by the comments of what I consider good, responsible, moral people.
Thank you

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2005, 10:59:12 AM »

I used to love to hunt small game and could hardly wait for the hunting seasons to come around when I was a lot younger. I am now disabled and can no longer hunt but i still like to get out and plink and target shoot whenever possible. Now I like to get out and take in the nature show that the man above has put here for our use and enjoyment. I have no problem with hunters as long as the game was taken ethicly and by fair chase the way it was meant to be. Last summer I was at a State Park here in Indiana where game is protected and in the evening about an hour and a half before sunset a beautiful herd of deer and fawns appeared out of the woods. They had gotten used to people and were totaly unafraid of us and came within 20 yards of where we were sitting and were feeding on the grass all over the picnic area. we watched them for over an hour and I knew then I could never pull the trigger on one. If a person hunts for the meat thats fine because if I were hungry and had the opportunity I wouldn't hesitate myself but I couldn't knowing I would be killing something for the heck of it.

jh45gun · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2005, 11:14:08 AM »

Quote from: redd7

Thank you all for your insight and comments. Considering how people are portrayed in the media. I feel encouraged by the comments of what I consider good, responsible, moral people.
Thank you

Did you expect any less? :? Despite what the liberal media says most gun owners and hunters are of a much higher moral fiber than that of the anti gun liberal crowd! Considering the tone of your first post and now this one I wonder if you were fishing for a different answer?