Author Topic: "Firearms Prohibited" (Read 3816 times)

Squirrelsaurus Rex · « **on:** January 15, 2005, 04:28:42 PM »

I've been wondering about the law regarding private property. We all know a lot of places of business these days are posting "Firearms Prohibited" signs in the front window (which I see as a panic reaction by closed-minded PC types to the increase in the number of CC permits).

How does the law apply to this? If I have a permit and carry in a store that has a "No Firearms" sign in the window, I know they can ask me to leave (they have the right to ask me to leave anyway, for any reason). But if they have a "No Firearms" sign in the window, does that give them any legal standing to prosecute you for ignoring the sign and carrying in their store? Are you actually breaking the law if you do this?

LMM · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2005, 06:22:07 PM »

That would depend on the State Law for that particular state where the store is located posting "No Firearms". I believe in Ohio they have a statute addressing this issue making it illegal to carry (even though you have a permit) in a place posted as above. Indiana doesn't. For Indiana Law to apply you would have to be asked to leave and refuse then you could be arrested for Criminal Trespass.

Gun Runner · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2005, 07:36:51 PM »

If I run into a bus. that says no firearms, it means my money cant come in either.

Gun Runner

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2005, 02:50:33 AM »

Rex: individual stores may have or develop a policy against carrying firearms in their stores but that carries no legal weight. All they can do is ask you to leave. I believe it is only schools and some other public places that can apply 'laws' relating to the carry of concealed weapons. Just my 2 cents worth. Mikey.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2005, 08:35:08 AM »

Drop in over at Packing.org and check out the laws for your state. There's a lot of discussion about this topic there.

Mainspring · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2005, 08:43:33 PM »

Better brush up on how the CCW law reads for your particular state. In some states you CAN indeed go to jail without passing 'go' or collecting $200 for carrying in a posted "no carry" establishment.

Squirrelsaurus Rex · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2005, 04:07:12 AM »

Thanks, I'll look into it.

Scorpius · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2005, 12:50:02 AM »

Packing.Org is a good place to look. I can tell you that as an Ohio CCW permit holder, if I go into a posted business carrying, and I were to be caught, I can be arrested, fined, jailed, and will never see my gun or permit ever again. Not worth the risk to me.

Bubba w/a 45/70 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2005, 07:40:25 PM »

Quote from: Scorpius

Packing.Org is a good place to look. I can tell you that as an Ohio CCW permit holder, if I go into a posted business carrying, and I were to be caught, I can be arrested, fined, jailed, and will never see my gun or permit ever again. Not worth the risk to me.

They (the business) is also not worth my money, either.

dgkenned1 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2005, 12:29:11 PM »

in michigan, if a business posts a "no firearms" sign then this place becomes prohibited just like bars, schools, day care, sports arenas courts etc. and the law will come down on you in the same way. what you can do about it is complain and threaten to take your business (and money) to their competition. you can also ask what liability they may incur if something were to happen to you as a result of their policy. right after our cwp law was changed in july 2001, a well known national discount store posted a "no firearms allowed" sign. i read about it in the reader comment section of the local newspaper. before i had a chance to check it out, the store had changed their policy in our town. reason for changing policy? your guess is as good as mine.
thanks,
dave.

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2005, 12:35:50 PM »

The important thing is to let the owner know that you won't be spending money with him because of his sign. then call them about once a week and ask if they still have the sign up and tell them what a shame it is that you have to go out of your way to spend your money with another business close by.

Rusty <><

Ron T. · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2005, 03:37:40 PM »

Scorpius is correct.

In Ohio, any business or location can "post" a "No Firearms" sign on their door and even though one has an Ohio CCW Permit (as my wife and I both do), we can NOT carry our concealed weapon into that business or location.

If we do carry a concealed weapon into that location and are caught, we will be charged with a felony which means "Bye-bye to CCW Permit and firearms ownership".

However, I make it a practice to ask for the "manager" of any such business with whom i do business... and tell that person that I will no longer do business with them as long as they pursue such a firearms policy. I also follow that "threat" up with a LETTER indicating the same thing to the primary executive of a local business or the corporate H.Q.'s of that business (if it is not locally owned).

So far... we (others... I'm sure... and my own complaints) has caused the removal of a "No Firearms" sign in our local Krogers Super Market in Vandalia, Ohio.

Economic pressure is something any business understands...

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

papajohn428 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2005, 07:24:26 AM »

The point we need to get across to these "Guns Banned" business owners is that the CCW holders will obey the sign, the criminals won't. Hence, when an armed robbery goes down, there will be no CCW holders and no armed off-duty cops to come to their rescue. And what bad guy is going to rob an "Arms Allowed" business when the pickings are easier and safer for him down the street? It's like guns-free zones around schools......Why not just put up a sign that says "Child Abductors Welcome, take all you want, no one here can stop you!" I never have understood that idiocy. And yet, politicians say they're doing these things to protect children. Sounds like pretzel logic to me!

Papajohn the Easily Confuzzed

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2005, 07:40:41 AM »

Interesting POV PapaJ. I like it...

rockbilly · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2005, 04:16:10 PM »

Texas has a sign with specific wording/symbols. The sign must be posted at the entrance to the store or business in a manner which allows everyone entering to see it. If the sign is posted in accordance with the law, you are in a heap of trouble if you get caught with a firearm in the business. Under some circumstances, this could apply to parking lots, but it would be rare.

I know of several stores in my area that have signs posted that do not comply with state law. I don't pay any attemtion to them and carry anyway. I have brought this up to several owners and told them I could spend my money elsewhere......some signs came down. I don't shop in those that still have them.

Check your state law, It is different state to state.

red_ford_truck · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2005, 02:45:51 AM »

this is just what I do, and if it dont work for you thats OK.
if its a place where I might walk in on a robbery in progress...gas station, what have you ..I carry.
tis easier to get out of jail than a grave yard.
but if it is a low threat sorta place, i try to take my business some where else....plenty of pizza shops around my part of the world.

like i said , just my way of getting thru life, it might work for other folks.

sniperVLS · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2005, 06:05:15 AM »

my fellow Ohioans, go to https://www.ohioccw.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=112&osCsid=723b143111db4d63c2a3c797678c0dac

Heres a pic of the card I got when completing my class...

and I bought 50 more from the website and gave some to my uncle and cousin. Ive handed a few out, so atleast Im doing my part for the time being. A good supply stays in my wallet, ready for use

knight0334 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2005, 07:55:08 AM »

PA, my home state, those signs dont mean a thing. Off limits=schools K-12, court facilities and Fed Govn't buildings(or any other place by Fed law).

But, the store/shop may ask you to leave whether it is posted or not. Failure to leave could result in a trespassing citation-summary offence. Failure to leave after that results in criminal trespassing-misdonmeaner to felong level.

sniperVLS · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2005, 10:18:53 AM »

I wish it were that leniant here. The others are correct when they say in Ohio, you get caught in any place that has that sign, its a felony and your done. No warning, nothing.

I do it anyways, if its a questionable place. Id rather be in jail then be in the hospital, or dead.

papajohn428 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 27, 2005, 06:47:11 AM »

I saw a post recently where a CCW holder sent a letter to the owner of a "No Guns Allowed" store, with a copy of the receipt showing how much money he'd spent at the "other" store that allowed guns inside. The letter said he had intended to shop there, but had to go elsewhere because he was packing. If that doesn't get their attention, they're too dense to deal with anyway!

BTW, that Ohio CCW Card is a GREAT idea! The last line is my favorite part........ :wink:

PJ

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #20 on:** March 27, 2005, 02:26:54 PM »

Quote from: Mikey

Rex: individual stores may have or develop a policy against carrying firearms in their stores but that carries no legal weight. All they can do is ask you to leave. I believe it is only schools and some other public places that can apply 'laws' relating to the carry of concealed weapons. Just my 2 cents worth. Mikey.

Here in Ky I believe the law says that an establishment can bar guns and if you violate that you can lose you ccw permit.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 27, 2005, 04:31:45 PM »

You won't see me shopping there. No guns No money. :twisted:

bearblade · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2005, 04:39:57 AM »

I don't know if it is everywhere, but in Indiana Wal-Marts if they spot the weapon (say your cost rode up or whatever), they will ask you to leave, but they don't post it.

papajohn428 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2005, 09:18:10 AM »

If it's not posted, I doubt there's much they can do besides ask......I'd tell them to go pound salt. I bet the issue would die right there, espcially if you were diplomatic about it, and merely threatened to contact the local press. Wal-Mart tends to be very wary about bad publicity.

PJ

Dave in WV · « **Reply #24 on:** April 03, 2005, 06:11:37 AM »

Blockbuster had a no firearms policy. It seems it went away after they were informed they are responsible for our proctection and are liable if they fail to do so. Business tended to be a bit less too since several customers were carrying. Figure a large percentage of Blockbuster's business is after dark. If someone comes into the business or in their parking lot and attacks you without you provoking the attacker it seems to me the business owner is liable since they won't let you protect yourself on their property.

papajohn428 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 03, 2005, 07:31:19 AM »

Another tactic that might work is getting the membership of your local gun club together, and having all the members sign a pledge sheet, vowing not to patronize ANY store that bars guns, and then forwarding it to the local chamber of commerce, or local paper. The media has often made gun owners into a teeny little "fringe" group, perhaps merchants who realize the numbers involved will have second thoughts about alienating a large chunk of their clientele!

Once the law has been in place for a few years, and the public has gotten used to the idea, the reaction to CCW's will be a lot kinder.

While travelling out west some years ago, (I think it was in Arizona) many tourists were shocked to see citizens walking around town with REAL GUNS ON! One lady asked me if it scared me, and I said, "Ma'am, I haven't felt this safe since my last police convention!" Once I explained the hoops people have to jump thru to get approved, she felt better, but the look on her face when a gal walked by with a nickle SAA in a western holster was priceless.

Papajohn

6Shooter · « **Reply #26 on:** April 10, 2005, 06:24:47 AM »

If the gun is concealed, how will anyone in these stores know you have it?
We have those signs here in NC and I don't shop there.

Almtnman · « **Reply #27 on:** April 10, 2005, 03:21:41 PM »

Quote from: LMM

That would depend on the State Law for that particular state where the store is located posting "No Firearms". I believe in Ohio they have a statute addressing this issue making it illegal to carry (even though you have a permit) in a place posted as above. Indiana doesn't. For Indiana Law to apply you would have to be asked to leave and refuse then you could be arrested for Criminal Trespass.

My states concealed permit states that I can't carry into an airport or criminal justice building or courthouse. So if I see a sign in a store that says no concealed carry, I just walk on in and if they don't like it and ask me to leave, I just don't shop there anymore. On a fast food burger joint that had one, I contacted the area manager and asked if they could guarantee my safety if I left my pistol outside? I also asked if they checked everybody that entered like a courthouse does so I would feel safer. I told him if they didn't meet those requirements and I got robbed or shot inside one of his stores, then I could probably sue his company. A month later, the signs were no longer there.

Sir Knight · « **Reply #28 on:** April 10, 2005, 03:50:09 PM »

... are these available for other states?

Quote from: knight0334

PA, my home state, those signs dont mean a thing. Off limits=schools K-12, court facilities and Fed Govn't buildings(or any other place by Fed law).

What about amusement parks, zoos, Crayola Factory, etc.; places like that where I would take my little munchkin? If discovered, would I be guilty of something or would they merely tell me to leave.

knight0334 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 10, 2005, 05:34:37 PM »

Quote from: Sir Knight

Quote from: knight0334
PA, my home state, those signs dont mean a thing. Off limits=schools K-12, court facilities and Fed Govn't buildings(or any other place by Fed law).
What about amusement parks, zoos, Crayola Factory, etc.; places like that where I would take my little munchkin? If discovered, would I be guilty of something or would they merely tell me to leave.

The property owners can ask you to leave. If you fail to leave after being asked, you can get a summary offense citation for Trespassing. Failure to leave after that citation can result in criminal trespassing on the misdemeanor and felong levels. ...and of course you'll be cited for disturbing the peace as well with the misd and/or felony citations.

The DNR has ruled that State Parks are off limits too. <--that isn't listed in the Unified Firearms Act of PA, but under another law/rule.