Author Topic: 762-25 is a 30 luger?? (Read 942 times)

jbtazgrabber · « **on:** January 17, 2005, 07:13:15 PM »

help a old man with a brain fart are they the same size??? :-D

John Traveler1 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2005, 07:44:35 PM »

No, the 7.62x25 is the 7.62 Tokarev or the 7.63 mauser cartridge.

They are not the same as the 7.62 Luger.

ajj · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2005, 03:00:07 AM »

They are both bottlenecked but the Luger cartridge is noticeably shorter.

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2005, 03:01:12 AM »

Nope, not the same. The 7.62x25mm is dimentionally the same as the 7.63 Mauser yet both differ from the 7.65 Luger or the .30 Luger.

The 7.63 Tokarev or the 30 Mauser pistol round are both 25mm long and fire a .308 diameter, 85-88 grain bullet at between 1400' and 1500'/sec, from the Tokarev pistol, the 30 Mauser (Model 1896) Broomhandle pistol or the CZ52 pistol - there were also a few variants of the Model 1896 Broomhandle Mauser pistol made by Spain and China.

The 30 Luger or 7.65mm Luger is about 23mm long and fires a .310 diameter 93 grain bullet at about 1280'/sec. The cartridge was chambered in only one pistol, the Luger Pistol or the 1906 (?) Luger. Browning also made 30 caliber Luger barrels for their P-35 Pistol in 9mm, and I think you could at one time find barrels for the 1911 in 30 Luger.

HTH. Mikey.

unspellable · « **Reply #4 on:** January 19, 2005, 01:07:10 PM »

Quite a few pistols have been chambered for this cartridge.

The Parabellum or Luger in its various incarnations
The Glisenti
The Radom
The Browning Hi Power
Colt
S&W
Ruger
A few sub-machine guns or machine pistols, can't quote names.
The C96 or Mauser broomhandle is alleged to have been so chambered in at least a few examples.

There are probably others, as it's no considered semi-obsolete in Europe as it is in the US.

I have two Rugers chambered for this cartridge. These were intended for the European market. I have acquaintances with the S&W, Hi Power, and Colt.

earschplitinloudenboomer · « **Reply #5 on:** January 19, 2005, 09:00:24 PM »

Mickey;
Research on the 7.62 X 25 indicates that it is NOT identicle to the 7.63 Mauser. The 7.63 is, longer (neck) there have been instances where upon firing, the neck separates at the shoulder, lodges in the bore and creates a barrel obstrustion upon subsequent firing. Please research and correct me if I am wrong. I have a CZ52 and in searching for loading data I found the above information. If I can find it again I will forward it to you and you can judge it's merit.

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:43:04 AM »

earschplittin - that has not been my experience. I have used the two cartridges interchangeably - perhaps not wisely, but without problem. The only thing I won't do is take some of the hotter mil-spec 7.62x25 and run it through an old broomhandle - I will take 30 Mausers and put them through my Tokarev without problem. I had always understood them to be dimensionally interchangeable but with different power factors.

Unspellable - I stand corrected. I do know that most any 9mm can be rebarrelled to the 30 Luger and knew that on occassion Colt had producted 1911s in 30 Luger for the euro market and that Browning had produced a few in their Hi-power, but the S&W and Ruger are new to me and please don't ask me to handle a Glisenti in 30 Luger - that would be almost as bad as putting a 9 x 19 through one.

As for the sub-guns - most often I have seen them in 7.62x25 - never seen or heard of one in 30 Luger but I sure ain't the last word on this. Mikey.

unspellable · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:59:04 AM »

The Glisenti was originally chambered for the 7.65 Parabellum (30 Luger) and will handle them OK. The original 9 mm Parabellum cartridge had a milder loading to give it the same impulse as the 7.65 since the Old Model Parabellum used the same recoil spring for both. With the New model Parabellum and the switch to a coiled recoil spring they made two different springs and stepped up the level of the 9 mm Parabellum to what we have today. I suspect the 9 mm Glisenti cartridge may be just the old 9 mm Parabellum loading.

There is quite a bit of controversy over whether the 7.63 Mauser and the 7.62 Tokarev are the same or not. I fall into the "they are not quite the same" camp. I suppose it's all in how you look at it, but rather than saying the Mauser has a longer neck I've been saying the Tokarev has the shoulder further forward.

I just the other day received Lee's latest reloading book. In it I see seperate pages for loading data for the two cartrdiges. Lee sells two different die sets. Starline lists two different cases for them.

As for how hot a load you can run in a C96 or broomhandle, it's not a matter of pressure, the old gal will take ferocious pressure. It's a question of impulse, too much impulse and you will batter the poor gun to death. The metal is a bit soft by today's standards.

Impulse is equal to the bullet mass times its muzzle velocity plus the powder mass times its average muzzle velocity. It's hard to maesure the velocity of the powder gas so the rule of thumb for pistols is that it is 1.5 times the bullet velocity. It's impulse that operates a recoil action, not pressure. Blow backs are operated by pressure.