Author Topic: 357mag or 45lc (Read 2128 times)

tjf76 · « **on:** January 18, 2005, 02:29:18 PM »

looking for a field side arm. Between these two which one would be better.
I do not reload and need to know if the 45lc would be ok in bear country or would the 357 be better. :?

tjf76 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2005, 03:20:21 PM »

I have a 454 but its to heavy to carry in the woods. I am looking for a smaller carry gun for backpacking and such. I also have a sp101 in 357 but the wife likes to carry that one. Local pawn shop has a 45lc 7 1/2
blue its about 80% overall has some holster wear for $220. There is a little cylinder play but not to bad. How muck play is to much?

John R. · « **Reply #2 on:** January 19, 2005, 02:50:58 AM »

You might want to check into the new Ruger Alaskan in 480 Ruger. Its a redhawk with a 2 3/4" bbl. If you get the 45 Colt (which is a favorite of mine) you can take up a little slack with a Belt Mountain base pin. I still think bigger bullets are better for bigger animals. The 45 Colt will work great as long as you use the premium ammo. :grin:

leverfan · « **Reply #3 on:** January 19, 2005, 02:07:50 PM »

Quote from: tjf76

Local pawn shop has a 45lc 7 1/2 blue its about 80% overall has some holster wear for $220.

I just wanted to ask, and make sure, that you are talking about a Ruger here, right?

I've carried both the 357 and 45 as trail guns in bear & cougar country. With hard cast bullets in the 158-180 grain range, the 357 didn't leave me feeling undergunned. With 250 grain or heavier bullets, loaded to +P pressures in a strong gun, the 45 is more than enough gun for the lower 48, and I would be satisfied with it for Alaska, too. Factory loads that take the 45 to its full potential are expensive, but easy enough to find.

My current trail gun load is a 255 grain .45 bullet on top of a case full of black powder, just for something different. It makes for an average of 903 fps out of a 4.75" barrel, plenty of power for any problem I'm apt to find in Washington. Besides, I can always escape behind the smokescreen.

Golsovia · « **Reply #4 on:** January 19, 2005, 02:11:50 PM »

The 45 Colt at ordinary factory pressures is a powder-puff piece easily managed. The 357 doing similar things energy-wise will be running at much higher pressures and blast. Of course the latter will also shoot real easy stuff (38 SPL). It is no trick to find better bear loads for the 45 while it is arguable whether anything of any weight or pressure is really very adequate in that function with the 357. While I prefer the shorter barreled version, I would definitely recommend the 45.

bigjeepman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 19, 2005, 03:48:52 PM »

I think Golsovia pretty well summed up my opinion as I shoot both calibers. My vote definately goes to the .45 colt with +P Corbon ammo if your gun can handle this "hot" round. It is expensive but, then again, this isn't plinking ammo and it is very effective.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #6 on:** January 19, 2005, 09:12:21 PM »

You have a 454 but its too heavy to carry in the woods? HUH? Where else were you planing on carrying it?

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2005, 11:01:40 PM »

if you dont reload a .44 mag is hard to beat.

LAH · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2005, 03:53:56 PM »

What Lloyd said.

Ralston Straight Shooter · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2005, 08:08:32 PM »

If I was worried about being in bear country, these days the Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum would even up the odds with an animal that might be hungry or out of sorts. Use a load with a heavey solid penetrating bullet, not a hollow point. A stainless model would also be a good idea. :evil:

tjf76 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2005, 03:11:58 AM »

Thanks for all the imput. I am going to go with a SS 44 :wink:

jd45 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2005, 12:36:03 PM »

Hold your horses!!!!!!!!!!! I'm with BIGJEEPMAN.........the .45 Colt is the way to go,either with hot factory loads,. like Corbon or Bruin, or handloads, it beats .357, hands down. It also beats .44mag, with handloads.jd45.

bigjeepman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2005, 01:27:47 PM »

I don't know about other areas of the country, but we are selling a lot more .45 lc handguns and rifles than ever before. I work in a gun shop when I have some free time and sales have been really good this year in my favorite caliber ... the .45 lc. Of course, my persuasive ways in talking about this fine round might have something to do with it.

The .45 lc has a great history dating back to 1873 and the ballistics to go with it. Believe me, I am not knocking down any other caliber because they all have their place. I am only saying that this round can do much more than some people think. It is a very versatile round and easy to reload if you ever get into reloading.

Whatever you decide, enjoy ...

tjf76 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2005, 01:36:14 PM »

went to my friends pawn shop and came home with a blue BH in 45 colt.
Its got a 7 1/2 tube ans is about 85% overall,paid $220. Cant want to shoot it. Was thinking of getting a smaller barrel, 5 1/2???.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2005, 09:50:53 PM »

you got yourself a good deal there!

bigjeepman · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2005, 01:03:03 AM »

tjf76 ...

Like Lloyd said, I think you got yourself a great deal. My last two revolvers in .45 colt have had 7.5" barrels. For me, they feel better balanced. I seem to be able to shoot better groups at all distances with them. I am not so sure this is the case with everyone but it is with me.

I am not sure if you are looking for a great hobby but you might start thinking about getting into reloading. I have four hobbies and reloading seems to be the most satisfying. The .45 colt would be a great caliber to start with. You can fine tune loads for accuracy and comfort. I have lighter loads when we all want to shoot a lot at the range and heavier loads that I will use to hunt with whether it be boar or deer hunting. This is a great place to ask questions about reloading too as I have learned a lot from these guys. I reload for two handgun calibers and two rifle calibers.

tjf76 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2005, 04:08:55 AM »

I am going to shoot it first before I change the barrel or anything. The reloading idea is a good one. Good ammo ( cor-bon,buffalo bore ect.)
cost ALOT. Reloading would keep the cost down.

bigjeepman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2005, 09:53:01 AM »

Depending on the powder and bullet I choose, I can reload a box of 50 rounds for around $4.50 for my "plinking." Of course, there is an initial investment for equipment, brass, bullets, powder, etc but the rewards are great.

Gregory · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:09:46 AM »

Quote from: jd45

Hold your horses!!!!!!!!!!! I'm with BIGJEEPMAN.........the .45 Colt is the way to go,either with hot factory loads,. like Corbon or Bruin, or handloads, it beats .357, hands down. It also beats .44mag, with handloads.jd45.

I see tjf76 has purchased a 45 Colt and I wish him well with it, I think the 45 Colt is a fine cartridge.

I do have a question for jd45, if I compare 44 Mag and 45 Colt performance off of the Corbon data I don't see the 45 Colt "beating" a 44 Mag. What 45 Colt handloads do you find superior to a handloaded 44 Mag? I don't think there is enough difference between these two rounds to pick a clear winner. It does bother me though when the 45 Colt is touted as superior to the 44 Mag. without any supporting data.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2005, 05:51:25 PM »

My 6th edition Hornady reloading manual shows the maximum velocity for a 250 gr. jhp at 850 fps out of a 45 Colt. The maximum velocity for a 240 gr. bullet out of the 44 mag. is shown at 1400 fps. Unless you are making some incredibly unsafe handloads, the 45 Colt will never beat the 44 mag. hands down.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2005, 05:55:31 PM »

Well, I reread the post and see that the primary comparison was between the 45 Colt and the 357 mag. That's a hard comparison because the bullet weights don't match up. My best guess is that its a toss up unless penetration is the focus and then I'd lean towards the 45 with really hot loads.

TennesseeNuc · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2005, 06:30:20 PM »

tjf76,
If my choices were between a .357 and a 45lc, I would have picked the 45lc. If your going to be carrying it for defence against bears, one box of heavy factory loads won't break the bank. For practice you have the option of useing the less expensive stuff.
Sounds like you got a pretty good deal.
Best,
TnNuc

tjf76 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2005, 06:36:09 PM »

Im happy with my choice. I cant shoot untill this weekend,that sucks.
I like the 45 colt because it dosent have the recoil of the 44. If I want to shoot a gun with heavy recoil I would just carry my 454 all the time.

Also, the 45lc isnt as heavy as the SBH or the 357.

leverfan · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2005, 08:04:18 PM »

Quote from: Dusty Miller

My 6th edition Hornady reloading manual shows the maximum velocity for a 250 gr. jhp at 850 fps out of a 45 Colt. The maximum velocity for a 240 gr. bullet out of the 44 mag. is shown at 1400 fps. Unless you are making some incredibly unsafe handloads, the 45 Colt will never beat the 44 mag. hands down.

That Hornady load is handicapped. I can push a cast 255 grain bullet over 900 fps out of my 45s, using Pyrodex or black powder. Besides, Hodgdon's load for strong 45 designs pushes a 240 grain Sierra JHC at 1532 fps from a 7.25" barrel, and it does it at a fraction of the operating pressures than the 44 mag works at.

The 45 Colt can be safely loaded to +P type loads in Rugers built on the large Blackhawk sized frame (not the new Vaqueros that just came out), Freedom Arms revolvers, T/C rifles and pistols, and the model '92 rifle, among others. John Linebaugh, and others, tested the Ruger Blackhawk to the point of destruction, and determined that it can safely handle loads that reach a maximum pressure that is 80% of a 44 magnum's max. That's because boring a 45 Colt hole in a cylinder leaves you with 80% of the steel that a 44 hole leaves on the outside edge of the cylinder. A custom 5-shot cylinder, with its massive walls, can handle higher pressures. 45 Colt brass, especially Starline brass, is plenty thick and strong enough to contain these pressures in a strong gun. Just cut one in half, and compare the brass to a halved 44 case.

The greater expansion ratio of the 45 caliber allows for comparable velocity at a lower pressure, given bullets of the same weight. That's why Hodgdon shows a +P 45 Colt load that propels a 360 grain cast bullet at 1167 fps, with only 29,800 CUP. Hodgdon's 44 mag load, fired from an inch longer barrel, gives you a 355 grain cast bullet at 1247 fps, but with a pressure of 37,900 CUP.

Once you allow for the differences between bullet weights, barrel length, and test guns, it's plain that a strong 45 Colt can chunk just as big a hunk of lead, just as fast, but with less muzzle blast than the 44 (do to the lower pressures). If you move up to the custom 5-shooters, the 45 leaves the 44 far behind, and it pokes a bigger hole to boot.

jd45 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2005, 01:39:34 AM »

There's also some good reading in Uncle Elmer Keith's book, "Sixguns," comparing the two, and, as you might expect, he favors a warm or hot loaded .45Colt to the .357, for killing power.jd45.

Gregory · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2005, 11:44:20 AM »

Quote from: jd45

.the .45 Colt ... also beats .44mag, with handloads.jd45.

I'm not knocking the 45 Colt. But show me where it "beats" a 44 Mag.

jd45 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2005, 05:00:15 PM »

Greg, I just went to Hodgdon's site & between the two, .44mag gets 80-120fps over the .45Colt, but at 6,000 to 10,000 more cups. Paco Kelly's article " 45's, Small, Big & Tall," says he gets a little over 2000fps with a 260 Lyman-Keith under 24.5grs of 2400. Also, with 23.5grs 2400 under a 300gr Lyman-Keith cast, a little under 1800fps.....this in a Rossi '92 action Win. replica rifle. Makes you scratch your head, don't it? jd45.

jakes10mm · « **Reply #27 on:** January 26, 2005, 06:08:29 AM »

I have to agree that trying to determine a winner between the 45 Colt and 44 Mag becomes a more emotional than factual debate. Both are plenty good. With "sanely" loaded cartridges, I see two advantages to the 45 Colt: heavier bullet options and bigger caliber. Bigger calibers make bigger holes. With that said, my hunting handgun is a 44 mag. I'm looking for a "worthy" 45 Colt to add to my options list.

Personal opinion: 45 or 44 with a heavy SOLID LEAD bullet traveling at sane speeds adequate to make two holes (one going in and one coming out).

Gregory · « **Reply #28 on:** January 26, 2005, 12:30:46 PM »

Quote from: jakes10mm

I have to agree that trying to determine a winner between the 45 Colt and 44 Mag becomes a more emotional than factual debate.

This is the point I was trying to bring out!! :toast:

jd45 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 26, 2005, 03:10:26 PM »

Gregory, I raise my beer stein to you! I've got Lomsa mocne (Polish for strong-7.8% alcohol) in mine. What's in yours? jd45.