Author Topic: ACLU is right or wrong....??? (Read 1605 times)

TM7 · « **on:** January 19, 2005, 08:31:49 PM »

FYI

by Greg Frost, Reuters

BOSTON (Reuters) - Civil rights advocates Monday urged U.S. law enforcement officials trying to solve a 3-year-old murder case to stop asking for DNA samples from male residents of a Cape Cod community.

Police in Truro, Massachusetts, are seeking genetic thumbprints from nearly 800 men who live in the quiet seaside hamlet hopes of solving the murder of Christa Worthington, a fashion writer.

Worthington's body was discovered Jan. 6, 2002, at her Truro home with her 2-year-old toddler, Ava, at her side. A $25,000 reward has so far failed to yield her killer.

In a bid to jump-start the investigation, police have begun asking Truro's male residents to voluntarily produce DNA samples -- collected by swabbing inside the mouth -- to help find a match for the semen that was found on Worthington's body.

The New York Times reported Monday that police are approaching men in public with the request, and have announced that they will closely watch those who refuse. Authorities also say they may expand the drive to neighboring communities, the Times said.

"This is a particularly insidious form of coercion because it attaches a penalty to the assertion of one's constitutional right to be free from unreasonable searches," Carol Rose, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts, said in a statement.

"There are many legitimate privacy reasons why an innocent person may not agree to a DNA test."

In a letter to local prosecutors and police, Rose's group urged a halt to the "DNA dragnet," calling it a "serious intrusion" on personal privacy.

The letter raised questions about the possibility that samples may be entered into a state or federal DNA database without donors' knowledge or consent and questioned whether the effort would be worth the cost, which it estimated at $80,000.

Moreover, the letter cited a University of Nebraska study released last year that concluded that DNA sweeps of possible criminal suspects are "extremely unproductive."

Cape and Islands District Attorney Michael O'Keefe dismissed the ACLU's concerns.

"I don't tell the ACLU what to do and I don't expect them to tell us what's appropriate in a homicide investigation," he said. He declined to comment further on the investigation.

.....................TM7

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:27:27 AM »

ACLU is right on this one. This amounts to a 'potentially guilty' or 'potentially guilty'. Danged if ya do and danged worse if ya don't.

Nope, they're right. And that is Massivetwoschmidts, the home of 'Ted the Divin' Alkie', and others - the most liberal state in the union (liberal is almost one step away from Communism in my book). Mikey.

williamlayton · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:34:44 AM »

I am in favor of the whole concept of the ALCU, I did not say, before anyone goes blind and starts raving and flaming, that I agreed with everything tha ACLU tackles.
Blessings

Brett · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2005, 03:09:55 AM »

I generally don't agree with their possition on most things they take a stand on but the ACLU called this one right.

powderman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2005, 03:30:05 AM »

I'm frankly surprised the A nti C hristian L iars U nion would even involve themselves. I'm amazed they are actually against anything that is wrong. I'm curious as to their real purpose in this case. POWDERMAN. :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2005, 04:17:57 AM »

Most of the time I look at the ACLU with a lot skepticism but I would have to agree with them this time. All the prosecuter is doing is fishing for a suspect and more or less admits if a man doesn't submit to the test they will be harrased. Also regardless of how careful the testing facility is what about a mix-up of results. The more tests that are done the more chance for a mix-up.

superhornet · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2005, 06:36:34 AM »

It should be mandantory that every person in the US should have their DNA taken and on file...Look at it as a means to prove ones innocence . And, please, no flames on a violation of your private rights. You have none, as the Government has enough data on you to find you at any time....When the ACLU makes the final drive with the Hollywood crowd to confiscate all your guns, don't post anything negative here about the wonderful job they are doing. ACLU--gestapo without the Jackboots................ho ho ho

alsatian · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2005, 11:50:09 AM »

I agree with the ACLU on this one. If I lived there, I would refuse the test and I would make it clear I don't like that kind of bullying from the police and would sue them if "keeping a close eye on those who refuse" means invasion of my privacy.

I generally like what the ACLU does, but I think they go to far. They could choose their cases a little more carefully, in my mind. Additionally, I am not satisfied with their total abandonment of the second amendment. When has the ACLU ever taken a case in defense of the second amendment? As far as I'm concerned the right to keep and bear arms is very high up there on the rights we need protected.

alsatian · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2005, 11:53:39 AM »

Quote from: superhornet

It should be mandantory that every person in the US should have their DNA taken and on file...Look at it as a means to prove ones innocence . And, please, no flames on a violation of your private rights. You have none, as the Government has enough data on you to find you at any time....When the ACLU makes the final drive with the Hollywood crowd to confiscate all your guns, don't post anything negative here about the wonderful job they are doing. ACLU--gestapo without the Jackboots................ho ho ho

Great idea. Have a public database with everyone's DNA kept TOP SECRET and accessible only to legitimate law officers. How long would it be before corporations got access to the database and decided not to hire someone because their DNA indicates a 15% greater than average probability of having Parkinsons's disease twenty years later and being a burden on their health benefits system? Having a national DNA database is not any wiser than having a national gun registration system.

superhornet · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2005, 02:16:48 AM »

Ever had a traffic ticket, a drivers license, a social security number, been finger printed for a gov't job or military? Ever had a telephone, cell phone or internet access? Ever been to the doctor, dentist , spent time in the hospital? Ever established credit or ask for a credit check? Ever had car insurance?? Each adult individual in this country and many other countries have already been identified, medical history, credit etc. loaded in do a data base.........the only thing missing is some DNA files....Ever wonder how you get all those phone calls hawking some product....you files are bought and sold every day..........we are watching you. ho ho ho

powderman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2005, 04:31:41 PM »

For many years now the aclu has been all for anything that is wrong, and against all that is right. I still wonder what those God hating sobs are up to. POWDERMAN. :? :? :? :? :? :?

FWiedner · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2005, 06:43:03 PM »

Quote from: superhornet

Ever had a traffic ticket, a drivers license, a social security number, been finger printed for a gov't job or military? Ever had a telephone, cell phone or internet access? Ever been to the doctor, dentist , spent time in the hospital? Ever established credit or ask for a credit check? Ever had car insurance?? Each adult individual in this country and many other countries have already been identified, medical history, credit etc. loaded in do a data base.........the only thing missing is some DNA files....Ever wonder how you get all those phone calls hawking some product....you files are bought and sold every day..........we are watching you. ho ho ho

The government and corporate America already have all your information on file so the best thing to do is just give up and "go with the flow", is that it?

A brilliant strategy. Why hasn't it been considered before this?!?

Why, if George Washington had just followed your advice we wouldn't have to worry about silly things like rights or privacy or any of those troubling issues. If only he had been smart enough to quit while he was ahead.

Just give up.

Brilliant!

superhornet · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2005, 06:05:35 AM »

Fwiedner-------Ma Foi ?? I knew George Washington......DNA will allow for medical matchs to treat illness......DNA will allow the crime rate to be cut in half.........DNA will allow the imprisoned innocent to walk free. Can DNA be used as an adverse element ?? Of course it can.......But, there are more positives to it than negatives.......IMHO of course----AND the ACLU is not your friend, now, or ever and if you believe they are, you have already lost the battle....We are watching you.....ho ho ho

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2005, 05:19:19 PM »

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and the gubmint is the worst enemy I've got.

Y'all can do as you like.

Mauser · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2005, 10:47:49 PM »

The part of the story where it says that the cops told male residents to "voluntarily" submit to a swab or be watched more closely is just downright scary. It reads like some novel set in NAZI Germany or the Soviet Union. Every resident of this town, if they have any shred of their love of liberty left, should demand the firing of those invloved in this NAZI scheme. Of course the ACLU is right on this.

We need an ACLU, just not always the one we've got.

williamlayton · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2005, 11:22:12 PM »

Mauser-
I think you have nailed this thought. The thought concerning the purpose of the ACLU is a good one, as in this is a GOOD thought process. The turn of the screw comes when a good thought starts defending those you may disagree with doesn't it.---Now if this were to be turned into a religious thought process I would argue that we have some perfect guidelines to control the organization. Such is not the case.---On a purely philosophical ground, the organization MUST make decisions concerning guidelines and defend those decisions.
This is an organization, it is made up of members, dues paying members-if I am understanding it correctly--This should mean that it has a board of directors. ON a purely theoretical basis, If more consevatives would be members WE could put this thing back on the tracks. NOT HOLDING MY BREATH, simply because most folks would rather complain than act.
Blessings

superhornet · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2005, 03:42:17 AM »

I am certain that many of you know, the ACLU gets grant money from good old Uncle Sam......Your tax dollars at work are supporting this agency.....They and the far left will destroy everything that you hold dear.
When they come to get your guns..........see how fast the ACLU stands up for you............we are watching you....ho ho ho

ShadowMover · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2005, 08:52:17 AM »

It's an interesting concept of trying to 'convert' the ACLU back to conservative purposes. I suspect they have already built 'safeguards' into their rules and regulations allowing them to drop a poison pill into the organization if it ever was threatened by a 'hostile takeover'. These people are not stupid, and would fight it with every tactic available.

I agree it's wrong to do DNA dragnets. I think the motives of most conservatives just happen to agree with them on this one, more by coincidence than purpose. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2005, 09:44:17 AM »

Quote from: superhornet

I am certain that many of you know, the ACLU gets grant money from good old Uncle Sam......Your tax dollars at work are supporting this agency.....They and the far left will destroy everything that you hold dear.
When they come to get your guns..........see how fast the ACLU stands up for you............we are watching you....ho ho ho

No, I did not know that. In fact, I don't believe it. ACLU denies it right on their home page.

Proof, please?

BamBams · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2005, 03:00:05 PM »

tap tap tap.......waiting to see the proof myself.......tap tap tap

Dali Llama · « **Reply #20 on:** January 26, 2005, 01:40:29 AM »

Quote from: Leftoverdj

Y'all can do as you like.

:roll: Thanks for granting us such permission, respond Dali Llama. :roll:

Dali Llama · « **Reply #21 on:** January 26, 2005, 01:46:25 AM »

Quote from: FWiedner

The government and corporate America already have all your information on file

Dali Llama suggest that FWiedner consider following words from ancient melody:

"Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep."[/color][/b]

superhornet · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2005, 03:39:44 AM »

:-) All of you are correct. I apologize for ever doubting the wonderful job the ACLU is doing. You have convinced me...I shall start sending a donation each month to them through my Federal payroll deduction...And since most of you support them, please let us have a post answer for all of you that will also send them a donation ?? Look at this site ---

http://uriel.com/aclu.htm

superhornet · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2005, 03:57:21 AM »

I am sorry...that web site I listed does not come up with the correct site.
It should have listed Federal contributions...but, it comes up to a different site entirely..Computer skills and eye hand coordination beginning to leave me. I love the ACLU and all who support it....Take the government out of our lifes for good..Let us run free like the ACLU suggests ..Leftoverdj----glad to see you are still well and posting....sh

Ron T. · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2005, 05:06:34 AM »

I disagree with the American Civil Liberties Union the VAST majority of the time, but this time.. theyÂ’re right.

That saidÂ… I canÂ’t forget all the problems theyÂ’ve caused in our society while HIDING behind the Â“Constitutional RightsÂ” label. TheyÂ’ve gotten murderers off through the use of Â“technicalitiesÂ” when everyone else KNEW the guy was guilty as heck.

I feel they tend to go TOO FAR in Â“watch-doggingÂ” civil rights. And there are COUNTLESS other times theyÂ’re done things that were counter-productive to our society in the name of Â“personal freedomÂ”.

IÂ’m as Â“touchyÂ” as anyone could POSSIBLY be about our Â“freedomsÂ” as guaranteed by our Constitution, but the A.C.L.U. takes it TOO FAR most of the time because they are primarily a far-left leaning, liberal organization.

I will RARELY ever Â“agreeÂ” with themÂ… but, in a free society, we have to put up with organizations like themÂ… Â‘cause they DO perform a Â“serviceÂ” for the REAL good of our society occasionallyÂ… like in this case.

Unfortunately, the many Â“dis-servicesÂ” they also perform tend to Â“water downÂ” their usefulness and acceptability.

Strength & HonorÂ…

Ron T.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #25 on:** January 26, 2005, 07:51:58 AM »

Ron, perhaps you would like to start another thread about the specific cases in which you disagree with the ACLU?

I'm a compulsive fact checker, as some of you will remember. I've checked out a few of the cases for which talk radio and the loonier commentators have condemned the ACLU and have found substantial misrepresentations in every case.

SuperHornet, individual contributions to the ACLU do not become "federal grants", even when they have passed through the federal payroll deduction plan.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2005, 08:18:11 AM »

Quote from: superhornet

Take the government out of our lifes for good..Let us run free like the ACLU suggests

That sound like position frequently advocated by FWiedner, say Dali Llama. :-)

Dali Llama · « **Reply #27 on:** January 26, 2005, 01:30:14 PM »

Quote from: superhornet

It should be mandantory that every person in the US should have their DNA taken and on file.

Dali Llama say he would limit such testing to only persons who have previously been deemed guilty of felonies.

powderman · « **Reply #28 on:** January 26, 2005, 03:59:23 PM »

Think what you want, but I still think they have a hidden agenda. They have been notoriously anti good and pro evil as long as I can remember. They have been instrumental in keeping God out of our courts and schools, while supporting the Godless ones in their efforts to win cult followers. POWDERMAN. :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :? :? :? :? :?

Dali Llama · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2005, 01:44:52 AM »

Quote from: powderman

Think what you want, but I still think they have a hidden agenda.

:? Police in Truro merely wish to solve crime and remove nogoodniks from street, say Dali Llama. :?