Author Topic: Pig Hunt Saturday, .45-70 Not Grouping!  (Read 517 times)

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Offline MarkA

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Pig Hunt Saturday, .45-70 Not Grouping!
« on: January 20, 2005, 04:30:52 PM »
The big Pig hunt is Saturday, however, the NEF .45-70 is NOT grouping  ! Woof. 60 rounds through this baby and it is still a kinda-sorta 6" group. Shooting the Winny 300 gr JHP's. Just cannot seem to get it to stablize  , I do not know if it is me flinching or whatever or just how this thing shoots. One shoot is dead bullseye, next is 2 inches low, next 3 inches high and right, next is almost in the same hole as the 3 inch high and right and it starts over.  

Anyone, anyone?
Thanks and Gig''em
Mark A. Fairchild

Offline handirifle

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Pig Hunt Saturday, .45-70 Not Grouping!
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2005, 04:32:22 PM »
Open sights, scope?

If scope, maybe it's loose or broken.  Open sights, maybe the sight pic is changing.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Pig Hunt Saturday, .45-70 Not Grouping!
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2005, 05:05:31 PM »
Got a buddy to shoot it? You could be flinching by now. Could be the scope, mounts rings or you coulda just got a bad one. Have you cleaned the bore good? When they're new, they will copper foul much worse than after they're broke in. Did ya polish the bore? If not, flitz or JB it to clean/smooth up the bore and shoot some more......Good luck. :wink:
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Offline JPH45

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Pig Hunt Saturday, .45-70 Not Grouping!
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2005, 05:06:06 PM »
What powders are you using and what velocities are you trying to achieve? My 44 mag is .002" over size on the groove diameter for a 44, yet it still shoots jacketed quite well. It is possible your barrel is out of spec, but I woud look to other suspects first. Have someone else fire the gun for groups. Try different ammo.

Have a friend load the rifle for you sometimes with a live round and sometimes with an empty case (don't just dry fire it, you'd be asking for a broke firing pin) You CANNOT know what is comming up, your friend must hide what he is loading from you. If on dropping the hammer on an empty case, the barrel drops forward or you react to a shots recoil that wasn't there; you're flinching. Having a flinch is not a bad thing, it is in fact quite treatable, but if you are in denial about it, then nothing will make the gun shoot well.

Have you tried any heavier bullets? Have you shot any soft lead bullets and I do mean soft, something like 20:1 alloy rather than WW or commercial cast which tends to run upward of 21 BHN or so. The softer didn't help in mine, but that could have been a velocity thing too. the quesation is how does it shoot it. Remington makes a plain lead 400 grain load that is perfect for this task. Every year I read reports of 300 grainers failing on deer, the complaints seem to be that the bullet is too soft for the velocity it is being driven. Might I suggest trying either the Remington 400 JSP or the Speer 400 JSP or an equivilent to those. Also don't drive them like the devil. Instead take a note from days past and try a more sedate load, say something about 1500 fps rather than going for 2000. See if such a load is accurate in your rifle, I have no doubt it will do the business on a hog.

Finally, how tight is the forearm screw? and how tight is the forearm fittedto the lug for the screw? I have found that I get much better results from rasping that hole out so it does not touch the lug, and only running that screw up finger tight, a tad more perhaps but the forearm should have a slight movement to it. I have not found the oring thing to work as well as this. I can get 3" groups from my 30-30 by doing nothing more than tightening that screw down till it's TIGHT!, no good, the forearm must float. If it rattles it is too loose, it should just wiggle a little, not so much as to make sound.

If you are using a scope, are you using the after market Weaver rail? If so, did you file a new slot in it to get the rings in a better position on the scope than the factory slots in the rail allowed for? If so, your slot may not be deep enough, this was the root cause of my scope coming loose on my 45-70 recently. Double check your scope mounting for sure, handirifle is dead on with this one.
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Offline Deadeye47

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Pig Hunt Saturday, .45-70 Not Grouping!
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2005, 05:12:45 PM »


While not spectacular...you might try a heavier bullet....this is a pretty good load...might try it...
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Offline Cottonwood

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Pig Hunt Saturday, .45-70 Not Grouping!
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2005, 02:10:56 AM »
I might also mention when bench testing your rounds.... sandbag that handing and make it so steady.  Keep your free hand off the forstock and under the buttstock and bring it in tight.  I got a pic of ol Deadeye sitting at the bench... perfect form  :grin:

After checking scope mount fittings, rail screws etc for tightness and everything is as it should be....

If reloads are still not grouping good, re-check with factory ammo and if they are grouping bad..... well it could be the nut behind the butt  :roll:

If factory ammo was my only option for Pig, it would be the 405-gr JSP.

That 6" group was at what range 50 yard, 100 yard?

When you shoot, where is your finger on the trigger.  I've seen some guys place that trigger in the first notch of the index/trigger finger.  Take a felt pen and draw a line half way down the first tap of your finger.  Do not exceed this line with the trigger and you will have better a better trigger pull.  If your already doing this great you wont have to fight old habbits then.

Now, what is the farthest range you will be taking your shot at... and the posible closest range?  Find your middle ground..... using a target, I prefer a target that looks like a hog standing broadside (you aint hunting no bullseye target) focus on the game your hunting, put a 9" paper plate or even a 6" pie plate in the kill zone.

Now try a shot that fouls the barrel, then shoot one shot at your target to the kill zone.... just one shot because that will propably be all your going to get.  Quite concintrating on your group size... your hunting, that animal is not going to stand there while you take a bunch of shots... your only interested in one shot that you are placing in the kill zone.

Hog Skeletal Chart  I find these help for what ever game animal I am going after I even have one of Bison that shows heart lung area etc.

I hope this helps

Offline MarkA

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It Must Be ME!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????????????????
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2005, 03:37:40 PM »
It must be ME!  (say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!  )

Checked everything I could check prior to going to range:
1. Scope tight
2. No scope rattles or loose sounds
3. Check crown and bore, visual OK

Set up targets at 100 yds. Decide to get the cheek weld spot on and tight and relaxed aim and squeeze with good follow through and no lifting head to see shot and NO FLINCHING!

Viola! got a 5 shot, 1.8" group, 1 1/2 high, just a tad left of center but not enough to keep shooting up expensive ammo. The loose nut behind the trigger does it again!
Thanks and Gig''em
Mark A. Fairchild

Offline quickdtoo

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Pig Hunt Saturday, .45-70 Not Grouping!
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2005, 03:43:31 PM »
Hooray!!! Remember, 90% shooter, 10% gun!!! At least that's what I've been told by those that should know! :wink:
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain