Author Topic: Right to Protest!  (Read 5015 times)

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Offline jh45gun

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« on: January 20, 2005, 06:04:48 PM »
Saw a protester on TV tonite burning the American Flag. They claim they can do that as they have the right to protest. OK if that is the case then Veterans that fought for that same flag or citizens who respect that flag ought to have the right to kick the living crap out of those same protesters!  :evil:  :x  :evil:  :twisted:
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2005, 10:50:40 PM »
Need to think that statement thru doan ya?
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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2005, 12:35:23 AM »
The world will always have plenty of fools and idiots running around doing foolish and idiotic things like flag burning.  And the more victorious in exercising our God given freedoms for the greater good, the more these fools and idiots are going to pop up out of the wood work and show us their true colors.  It's never a pretty sight, but ya did good on election day Jim!
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Offline magooch

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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2005, 03:01:38 AM »
Anyone who would burn our flag as a form of protest against a particular administration is really showing their disdain for this country and I think they should lose their citizenship.  Maybe they would be much happier in Canada.
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2005, 03:56:46 AM »
Quote from: williamlayton
Need to think that statement thru doan ya?
Blessings



NO I DO NOT! :x  :x  :x  Just seeing some one burn the flag makes me want to give them a attitude adjustment! If you disagee with that sorry, but that is the way I feel. I was brought up to respect the flag and some liberal trash burning it really gets my dander up!  :x  :x  :x
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Offline Sheila

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Re: Right to Protest!
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2005, 04:27:20 AM »
Quote from: jh45gun
Saw a protester on TV tonite burning the American Flag. They claim they can do that as they have the right to protest. OK if that is the case then Veterans that fought for that same flag or citizens who respect that flag ought to have the right to kick the living crap out of those same protesters!  :evil:  :x  :evil:  :twisted:


I saw  some protesters  across the road from Wal-Mart last week, and they were holding  a orange flag, it had a pick, and some sort of hammer, I think it was a Russian flag.
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Offline Sheila

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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2005, 04:29:07 AM »
Quote from: williamlayton
Need to think that statement thru doan ya?
Blessings


I would have said the samething. Our men and women are  dying for that flag.
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Offline Brett

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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2005, 04:58:41 AM »
I think it is perfectly all right for those folks to burn the U.S. flag in protest.... provided they wrap themselves up tightly in it before setting it on fire. :mrgreen:
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Offline Sheila

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Re: Right to Protest!
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2005, 05:26:07 AM »
Quote from: Sheila
Quote from: jh45gun
Saw a protester on TV tonite burning the American Flag. They claim they can do that as they have the right to protest. OK if that is the case then Veterans that fought for that same flag or citizens who respect that flag ought to have the right to kick the living crap out of those same protesters!  :evil:  :x  :evil:  :twisted:


I saw  some protesters  across the road from Wal-Mart last week, and they were holding  a orange flag, it had a pick, and some sort of hammer, I think it was a Russian flag.


I looked that flag up, and it is a commuist flag.  With a sickel, and a hammer.  Maybe we should take that flag and burn it.
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2005, 06:30:52 AM »
I see in the news that several peaceful protesters were arrested for shouting anti-Bush slogans at the inaugural parade.

I see as well that a man has recently been arrested in New York City for carrying a concealed firearm into the airport.

I note from last week that there is a community in the southeast that is collecting DNA samples from all the male residents of that community.

There were several cases last year where private property or land was siezed from the owners by the officials of local governments under "eminent domain" statutes, and then resold to private commercial developers.

There are people being held as prisoners by several agencies of the U.S. government who have been tortured, held without charges, without benefit of legal counsel, and who have been imprisoned without trial in the conduct of the "wars" on "drugs" and "terrorism".

Nobody ever gets pissed when REAL damage done is to America, when real people are harmed.

All anybody wants to do is criticize or harm someone else for doing nothing more than being an American.

I'd worry about what the government is doing illegally and in defiance of the U.S. Constitution before I wasted my time b*tching about some silly "Hippie" exercising his rights by burning a flag.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2005, 06:34:32 AM »
Amen to that FWiedner. This is getting scary, here of late I find myself in agreement with your posts more often that not. Hardly ever did in your earlier days here. Sumpin must be wrong with one of us.  :-D


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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2005, 07:03:34 AM »
Ahhhh....FWeidner......you can sure concoct a good spell with so little words can't you?  *smiles*

Quote from: FWiedner

Nobody ever gets pissed when REAL damage done is to America, when real people are harmed.

All anybody wants to do is criticize or harm someone else for doing nothing more than being an American.

I'd worry about what the government is doing illegally and in defiance of the U.S. Constitution before I wasted my time b*tching about some silly "Hippie" exercising his rights by burning a flag.


The firearms laws in NY haven't changed for a loooooong time.  The same guy would have gotten arrested 50 years ago. This is nothing new under the sun.

There is a difference between peaceful protests and trying to "incite a riot."  Those guys were detained for everyone's safety.  I commend the DC police for keeping down the violence on that historical day. Check, and you'll probably find out most of those "more expressive" folks were released within hours and not charged with anything.

The government has been taking away property for a loooooong time to build roads, bridges, etc.  This is nothing new under the sun at all.

Which playbook would you like to use in handling terrorists who do not play by any rules at all and kill innocent women and children - all the while pretending they are non-combatents themselves?  They are getting what they deserve - NO, they are getting less than what they deserve.  I'd vote for public hangings.  Same thing for those who peddle drugs to kids. Oh my, those poor little terrosists and drug pushers are being treated so harshly.  

You can pick what you'd rather worry about.  As for me, I'm not going to worry about any of it.  Rather I live day by day, try do what is right in my little part of the world, and enjoy my life and freedom as I am able.  America is a great place to live Fweidner.  Don't let the paranoia bug bite you too hard.  *smiles*
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2005, 07:20:21 AM »
True, every issue mentioned has that shared quality of being "as-it-is" on a long-standing basis, but the truth is that being an unconstitutional infringement on the rights of The People with long-standing doesn't make an action any less unconstitutional.

Each and every circumstance I mention is a direct infringement by government of an article of the Bill of Rights.

We are supposed to be a nation of laws.

If the government has the option to pick and choose to obey or to violate laws with which to guide it's actions at it's convienience, why should The People regard laws any differently?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline BamBams

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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2005, 07:35:33 AM »
Quote
We are supposed to be a nation of laws.


We are supposed to be a nation of ALOT of things.  You won't find any individual who can obey every single law throughout their entire life.

The real laws are written on some men's hearts Fweidner, which will naturally be at odds with what has been written on government documents from time to time. If you neighbor's kid is drowning in the pool, are you going to obey the "No Trespassing" sign and watch it happen?

Are you willing to admit that there are times when the laws actually stand in the way of doing the right thing?

Like an attorney told me once:  The law is no substitute for common sense.
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2005, 09:33:11 AM »
Quote from: BamBams
Quote
We are supposed to be a nation of laws.


We are supposed to be a nation of ALOT of things.  You won't find any individual who can obey every single law throughout their entire life.

The real laws are written on some men's hearts Fweidner, which will naturally be at odds with what has been written on government documents from time to time. If you neighbor's kid is drowning in the pool, are you going to obey the "No Trespassing" sign and watch it happen?

Are you willing to admit that there are times when the laws actually stand in the way of doing the right thing?

Like an attorney told me once:  The law is no substitute for common sense.


Unwritten laws are not laws, they are principles, philosophies, or opinions.

A "No Trespassing" sign does not usually carry weight of law, it usually indicates the poster's desire to have their property left undisturbed.  A man has a right to govern his own property, but does that property right outweigh the right of a child to live?  That's a conflict of rights that I'd resolve "in my heart" as you say, and quickly.

Any law that places one man's natural rights above those of another man who has the same rights is "in the way", and was likely written with the specific intent of preventing the "right thing" from being done.

With regard to the subject, the right thing to do (in my opinion) would not be to condemn, or to do harm to, an American citizen for exercising his recognized right to freedom of expression, in this case the burning of an American flag, however abhorrent you might personally find it.

The right thing to do would be to allow him to exercise his rights as he sees fit, and then to do your part and to dispose of the remains of our  beloved flag in a fitting and dignified manner.

I believe that that would be a much more powerful statement of true American patriotism.

Then, you would be be a true representative of what that flag represents.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2005, 09:35:25 AM »
Fwed what does your  first post have anything to do with  burning the flag or kicking the crap out of those who do.  Some one giving the respect it deserves after it was burned in your last post does not cut it as it should not have been burned in the first place!  As far as that guy who got arrested for having a gun if it was Moore's bodygard it works for me as Moore is anti gun but yet does not mind having a bodygard shoot some one to protect his sorry butt!
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2005, 09:43:17 AM »
Quote from: Graybeard
Amen to that FWiedner. This is getting scary, here of late I find myself in agreement with your posts more often that not. Hardly ever did in your earlier days here. Sumpin must be wrong with one of us.  :-D


Yea the day I started agreeing with fwed I would think there was something wrong with me also!  :)  :)  :)  :)  :)  :eek:  :eek:  :shock: Scary!
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2005, 11:22:35 AM »
Quote from: jh45gun
Fwed what does your  first post have anything to do with  burning the flag or kicking the crap out of those who do.  Some one giving the respect it deserves after it was burned in your last post does not cut it as it should not have been burned in the first place!  As far as that guy who got arrested for having a gun if it was Moore's bodygard it works for me as Moore is anti gun but yet does not mind having a bodygard shoot some one to protect his sorry butt!


It's about RIGHTS, Jim.

The post has to do with people being wrongfully persecuted for things that they have a RIGHT to do.

As to burning flags, I personally wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't encourage or support anyone who wanted to.  I believe that it's incredibly disrespectful, but it is a recognized method of "freedom of expression" according to the 1st Amendment.

What's that old saying about freedom?  Freedom means protecting another man's right to scream about something at the top of his lungs that you would choose to spend a lifetime fighting against?

Moore's bodyguard?  He's an American.  Regardless of his politics, his associations, or his employment, he has a right to keep and bear arms.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2005, 12:25:58 PM »
Let's test "Liberal Logic", an oxymoron if there ever was one...

   Liberal judges claim that the maggots have a "right" to burn the US flag;
  It's their "freedom of speech".
 

    Then the same liberal judges will jail a person for exercising his "freedom of speech" by burning a cross....

   Makes sense...(to a Liberal)

   All that , and most Liberals have no special regard for the cross..

   Frankly, Conservatives don't want to burn either one...That's consistency!!

   Fox News...fair and balanced, showed the rabid anti-Bush protesters as well as the vocal, pro-Bush crowd...

   That was a lesson for all of us the Pro-Bush folks looked like decent folks....the anti-Bush gang looked like a maggot infested bunch of dope smoking rif-raf..

   That was a good exercise of freely showing the contrast...

   After many years of observation, it is patently obvious that Conservatives generally have respect for both the flag and the cross...while Liberals obviously, have no respect or regard for ANYTHING.....other than what they want or desire...
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2005, 02:55:46 PM »
As hard as it is to swallow...even those protesters have the right to burn the flag...yes...we have had Thousands die for what that flag represents...but not over a piece of cloth.

We have to take the bad with the good here...and cannot have it both ways...if any part of the government is allowing the laws to be broken for a self serving purpose...or to aid in a buisness to profit...then who ever allowed it should be held accountable and prosecuted...

JPH45...there is a major difference between the act of burning a Cross and all it symbolizes as to that of burning a flag...and...not  about what it means in other parts of the world...but...here...and what flag burning has ment to the Americans that do it...they are protesting about the government and it's actions...the cross burning here in America symbolizes something far more synister...the elimination of a couple of races of Americans...


We like all of our Freedoms...we will fight to the death to preserve them...and yet when ever one of our own stands up and protest  against the government...many are soooo quick to condem them for doing it...Tell me one thing...JPH... would you you rather live in  a country where you couldn't protest against the government, when ever you wanted to???...where you would be arrested and tried and convicted for the crime of speaking out against what you thought was wrong..??? I certainly wouldn't...that is one of the greatest things about our country...and we are very lucky in that regard...because...in most other places around the globe...you wouldn't  be allowed to....


Do I agree with what the protesters were doing...NO...would I try to silence them...No....and in truth...nomatter how you feel about them...you should give thanks to God everyday...that you live in a country that allows it....otherwise...you really wouldn't be Free

Mac
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Offline Hooker

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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2005, 06:28:31 PM »
Let me see if I got this right.
You can't smoke cigarettes in public, But feel free to fire up a flag anytime you like.
Burning a flag is freedom of speech? Some body tell tell me what language
is that?
The guy most likely broke the law by having a open fire.  But that ok as long as you are a selfish little SOB trying to draw attention to yourself, At the exspence of those who were not selfish and gave so much so you'd have that right.
And yes you can say the Flag is just cloth and the Constitution is just paper and  America is just dirt.
Just don't say it at arms length :evil:
And don't expect me to celebrate the fact that you have the right.
And don't expect me to be silent thats my right.

Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
-Mark Twain
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2005, 06:43:53 PM »
Uh Mac it is jh45gun Not JPH45. That is some one else on the boards.  :eek: As far as crossburning goes I am not big on that either. My whole post was on rights and I still feel you want to protest and burn the flag I should have the right to wop you one. Hey its all about rights right??????? The sad part is the rights from the good guys are steadly being taken away while the scum of the earth gets more of them every day! It is out of balance for sure!
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2005, 06:48:32 PM »
Yes Fwed he has a right to bear arms and that I would not take away from him but the irony is he is using that right to protect a POS that wants to take away OUR right while his bodygard breaks laws to do so. I think most cities anti gun laws suck the point is Moore's bodygard evidently has the same attitude his boss does as it does not apply to me just other folks. The liberals want it both ways. WHen it comes to them but not us!  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :evil:  :x
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Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2005, 06:54:37 PM »
Quote
My whole post was on rights and I still feel you want to protest and burn the flag I should have the right to wop you one. Hey its all about rights right???????


Nope. Your rights end where his nose begins. Simple as that. No one has a right to hit anyone or in anyway to assault another citizen. IF ya do it there are consequences to that action.


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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2005, 07:15:46 PM »
Yea Bill I know that I was being facetious as like I posted the good guys are having all their rights stripped while the jerks in this country seem to get Moore and Moore. Pun intended  :grin:  :)  Since we have made the laws you cannot hit anyone wether they deserve it or not or you cannot disipline kids in school our or parents cannot spank their kids   our country has suffered for it and we have raised several generations of spoiled first class jerks because of it.   :x  You got to admit some folks if they got a few attitude lessons when growing up may have been a lot better citizens that did not have the attitude you cannot do anything to me. Yet they seem to be able to do what they want consistantly. Like I said the system is getting out of balance!
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2005, 07:20:31 PM »
Quote from: jh45gun
Uh Mac it is jh45gun Not JPH45. That is some one else on the boards.  :eek: As far as crossburning goes I am not big on that either. My whole post was on rights and I still feel you want to protest and burn the flag I should have the right to wop you one. Hey its all about rights right??????? The sad part is the rights from the good guys are steadly being taken away while the scum of the earth gets more of them every day! It is out of balance for sure!


 :oops: Sorry about that..

Your  correct about our rights being taken away...everyday...more and more of them are being stripped away...but...as stupid as it is,and as distastefull as it is...what they did was still protesting...and dang nabbit...like it or not...it's still protected under the 1st admendment,whopping someone on the head for burning a flag is assault...ain't no-one especially me saying that anyone here has to like it...but...if we let those liberal minded idiots in Washington start mucking around again...God only knows where our right to bear arms goes...Ya gotta look at the big picture in all of this...not just those idiots burning a flag in protest....that's the beauty of this country...and the freedoms we enjoy...

Hooker...

Quote
And don't expect me to celebrate the fact that you have the right.


You should celebrate that right...tell me ...which country could you or can you tell any member of the government just exactly how you felt about them or the government without threatening them personally as a whole without being arrested...yes...without the freedoms we have you would never be able to...no-matter what the government did...just look at our history and see what we have been fighting for all these years...Nobody...is jumping for joy over the fact that some little creaton was burning a flag...not me or anyone else I know...but...without the right to desent...or protest...where would all of us  be...if the gun grabbers had control of everything...

I only have one symbol that is holy to me...one that I hold in reverance...that is of the Cross my Saviour was nailed to...who died for me...and everyone else...the Flag of this country is a symbol to me as well...but to me it isn't about what it's made of...and I can accept the fact that some of our own dispise this great land to the point of burning our flag in protest...I will never like it...but I know that if we didn't have that right to stand up against our government,,,that it would no longer be the greatest nation in the world...


Mac
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2005, 07:47:44 PM »
Also Bill my first post said ought to have the right meaning I know you cannot touch these clowns legally. Too bad the whole sytem is goofy. now days a couple cannot even have arguement with out some one going to jail and if the cops are called by a neighbor if hollering starts some one goes to jail and charged with domestic violence even if the folks argueing were not being violent just verbal. I know that in some cases domestic violence is a bad thing but it should be on a case by case basis. Not these blanket policys like the zero tolerance BS in the schools.
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2005, 10:46:23 PM »
You can't have rights without granting rights.
 I have a flag which I would never part with and I would defend it against anyone who wanted to harm it. Now that is my flag and it carries personal meaning for me, The flag in general carries no more weight with me, as a symbol of anything, than does singing "Amazing Grace" at church.
The flag is a symbol-I respect it, and would not burn it, but take nothing personal in one who does not.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2005, 10:54:14 PM »
JUST REREAD THE POST AND CORRECTION IS REQUIRED.
The flag carries no more sacred meaning or weight----
Blessings :oops:
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2005, 02:20:19 AM »
Our "free speech" clause in the constitution was originally put there to allow POLITICAL dissent.
 
   Speech is oral, printed and recorded....and it is words...a language..

   Let me state right here; I deplore anyone that burns a flag OR a cross as a "political statement"!

   Burning something; whether it is a cross, a flag or one's self, is not speech...it is a PHYSICAL act....much like punching some useless punk in the nose (also a physical act).. it HONESTLY has nothing to do with speech.

        Many of us have family or loved ones that are right at this moment  facing evil terrorists in this war, and fighting for what that same flag symbolizes.
   
   My grandson has just been assigned to an MEU (special ops), and expects to be deployed to hunt varmints toward the end of this year.
   
     Then there comes these pieces of human debris, excrement of wrong upbringing...people that are not worthy to tie our fighting men's combat boots... that are allowed burn that treasured symbol...

   If someone here has no more regard for their country or the flag that symbolizes it....you have my condolences.

   Are our memories so short that we don't recall that burning our country's banner was once a crime....until some Liberal, activist judges during the "sickening sixties" sat on their little thrones and declared such a treasonous act to be legal.

     The same type judges that declared that killing pre-born boys and girls was simply a matter of "privacy"....a term that is NOT mentioned in the Constitution...

     I can hear the chorus already..

 " Just ask those Marines if they are not fighting so someone can burn our flag!"

   Before the chourus starts;.... I HAVE ASKED THEM...!!

To a man, they would consider that person more in line with the Taliban ...than with REAL Americans...

   The Taliban, by the way...is the enemy!

    I pity someone that has no more regard for our own country/ flag than say, the flag of Mozambique or the nation of Djbouti....

   That flag leads our fighting men in parades and into battle...life and death struggles.
 
   Those men fight to preserve our freedom of SPEECH...not a freedom to trash the banner they carry into battle...

   Sounds very much like an extreme Liberal attitude..

  Perhaps we will soon have to choose just what side of the culture war we will align with..

    " Where breathes there a man with soul so dead;
  That in his heart, has not said....this is MY country, my native land."

                                                      Sir Walter Scott
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)