Author Topic: Right to Protest!  (Read 4998 times)

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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2005, 05:13:57 AM »
The problem a-lot of people have about this is that there is a major difference between that young American burning our flag...and those scum bags in outher countries doing the same thing...while the end result may look the same...it it totally different...

Each and every one of us have the RIGHT to do this...as a means of free speach...to protest  actions of his government...he wasn't calling a revolution...he isn't trying to insite a riot...he isn't trying to stir up people to do bad things...he was exersising his Right of Free Speach....now...when those militants are doing this...it is totally the opposite...they hate ALL OF US>>>AND WANT TO DO US HARM....big difference...you cannot group the two together...

Why do you think..the Supreme Court would make this legal...they understood what our ancestors went thru  with the British...any of you can go to a public library and look up what was happening then...many citizens were arrested and hung for burning effigies of King George and burning the Union Jack...

Wouldn't it be better to actually find out WHY he felt he had to burn a flag...than just to condem him...none here...myself included would ever burn a flag...but...if we allow any part of a Right to be taken away...for whatever reason...then we all loose...they are doing this with the 2nd Admendment now.for crying out loud...do you really want a Law that will limit your Free Speach...Your Right to Protest ...

We may never agree with someone else arguments...and that is ok...because as Americans...we are Free...to disagree...and that's what makes this country the greatest in the world.....

Mac
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Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2005, 05:22:49 AM »
Mac I beg to differ. I think you have a basic misunderstanding of what the KKK was all about in the days when crosses were burned. What it has become today I have no clue but open burning of crosses is something I've not heard of here in the deep south in well over 20 years. Back when it was common it was a mere warning. A warning to shape up or face further consequences. It was NOT an attempt to do away with any race and it for sure had absolutely NOTHING to do with Jews. I think you are confusing the KKK and organizations like Nazis and skin heads. They are not the same. Not to say no one who is a member of one might not be a member of another also. Could be.

Crosses were burned at the homes of whites and blacks alike in the old south. Back then the KKK was really nothing more than a vigilante group who felt a need to enforce some laws or customs the police didn't. If a white man was too sorry to work and take care of his family or mistreated them in some way he was just as likely as a black to have a cross burned. It had nothing to do with religion or race. It was a mere warning you're doing wrong and best do right.

Yeah it got twisted in later years but cross burning never had anything to do with hatred of blacks or jews, not in the deep south at least. For sure not with trying to erase them from exisitence.



I also don't agree that you'd get in anymore trouble burning a foreign flag than the American flag in this country. For foreigners who burn our flag it's a way of telling us of their hatred for us. I honestly am not sure what's on the mind of Americans who do it. I'm sure it varies. Some do it to protest the policies of a sitting President. Rather stupid but hardly worth passing a law over.

I agree with Wm. Layton, if we have the right to think our way they must have the same right to think their way. Yes we have the right to think they are stupid idiots but then so do they have the right to think of us the same way and generally they do. Don't make either side right or give either side the right to take physical action against the other.

I see far too little thought and way too much emotion going into this thread lately. If more thought and less emotion isn't put into it soon it's gonna close.


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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2005, 06:12:33 AM »
Bill:

Your right in the meaning of the crosses being burned in the older days...but...when you see Swaztikas...and White Sheets standing side-by-side now-a days..then it takes on a different perspective... for each have thier own ideas and agnedas...

We are all individuals...each of us has our own ideas of right and wrong...and   I would rather debate the reasons... in an adult manner...Why..the indiviual choose to do what he did...than to get into name calling and making disparaging remarks...I  repect others opinions while still disagreeing with them...

My ancestors came over to this land...long before there was even any glimmer of being a Nation...and I had relatives that were arrested and hung during the Revolutionary period for Tratorious acts against the Crown...for doing this very same thing...that's why I'm a little adament about giving up any hard earned right that we all enjoy...it's very difficult to watch someone burn our flag...it has just as much special meaning to me and my family as anyone else...but so to does our individual freedoms...our Rights....that is what makes our country the greatest on the planet...we don''t  have to like what others do ...and we are free to say so...just as they are...and we don't need anyone or any government interfering with these rights...you know just as I do...a-lot of the conflicts could have been avoided if the government hadn't interfered on individuals and States rights...our Founding Fathers understood this...and tried to accomodate all of the States during the Ratification and signing .....and if they continue to water down the Bill of Rights...pretty soon we really won't be Free....

Mac
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Offline superhornet

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« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2005, 06:32:33 AM »
It is most difficult to hold back ones emotions when certain things you believe in are attacked...Debate is a wonderful thing.  It allows all of us to see through the eyes of another.   Regardless of the epidermal pigmentation of us as individuals, we must all stand as one in the end and respect the opinions of others.   I respect  the opinion  of all who post on this wonderful fourm.  But of course it ends there as most of you are wrong...ho ho ho.   I spent 33 years in the military protecting and projecting our flag. I say our flag because at times I was also protecting it for you and your ability and right to say and do what you want to.  If you choose to burn our flag and I am there, I still have the right to protect it.   It will be nothing personal, just business as usual for me.

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2005, 07:33:37 AM »
Quote
Your right in the meaning of the crosses being burned in the older days...but...when you see Swaztikas...and White Sheets standing side-by-side now-a days..then it takes on a different perspective... for each have thier own ideas and agnedas...


Yup, totally agree. I have no clue what the folks wearing sheets today stand for or against. I have no clue what the KKK is today. I've seen no overt KKK activity here in the deep south in a long long time. I think others with perverted motives may have taken up the name now. That just isn't what it once was and it's a shame if it is today.


Quote
I spent 33 years in the military protecting and projecting our flag.


It is not uncommon to see this in print here and elsewhere. I guess I just don't fully understand the comment however. As I see it what you were defending was not the FLAG. It's merely a piece of cloth that flies over the coutry. To me what was defended was the country itself. The land mass, the people who live here and call it home and the US Constitution above all for it is what makes this mass of land and peoples a country and is what I'd give my life to defend. Not a piece of cloth regardless of the pattern on that cloth.


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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2005, 08:11:37 AM »
Quote
I say our flag because at times I was also protecting it for you and your ability and right to say and do what you want to. If you choose to burn our flag and I am there, I still have the right to protect it. It will be nothing personal, just business as usual for me.


He understands that the flag encompases more than just a symbol for the country...he understands that it also means.....Individual Rights...and he..just as I or for that matter you or anyone else here...would defend it to the death...against any who would have it any other way...our very name says more than than what most take it to mean...United...we are individuals who are United when it matters...but...we are Individuals any other time...and being so..our Founding Fathers saw the need to make it stay that way,and they set forth a set of rules that the government has to follow...but as of late...depending on who has control..usurp the true meaning of them...

The right to protest against the our government...is in itself..a system of checks and balances,of  the scales of justice..and...whenever the pendulum swings to far one way..the voice of opposition should be allowed to be heard...to silence it...in any fashion,by Laws or Admendments...flies in the face of what the Founders of this Nation wanted...this is what sets us apart from the rest of the world...and makes them envious of our country...it is also what makes them think we are weak...which we are not...our sense of fairness,and justice,may make things difficult at times...but it makes us better than all the rest...it sets us apart from any nation...

Mac
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Offline superhornet

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« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2005, 08:56:57 AM »
:lol:  Mac11700---------yes, I am glad to see at least someone understands.   And to Mr. GB---It is only a piece of cloth..but when I look back and see the many who have died protecting what it stands for, it takes on a whole new meaning....I have been to many countries in my tour of service......In many of them, if you took their flag and burned it, they would scrape you up with a spoon.   Be glad you live in America and those who choose to burn it, can mostly get away with it...Enough said, thanks for the good forum where the 1st Amendment works..

Offline Brett

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« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2005, 12:07:13 PM »
Perhaps I was not clear in my previous posts. I am not arguing whether or not protesters should have the right to burn the United States Flag.  I'm saying that they are inconsiderate of others and wrong in exercising that right.  Does the First amendment give an anti-gun protester the right to stand on the street corner and yell obscenities at you and and your family and flip you the bird, or moon you as you walk past on your way into a gun show.  Yes, but local obscenity laws prohibit these acts in public do they not?  To me the flag is more than just bits of red white and blue cloth sewn together and the cross is more than just two pieces of wood and any act that defiles them is an obscene act in my eyes and probably in the eyes of many others here.  

GB do you honestly think that you could publicly burn the Israeli flag, Cuban flag, Vietnamese flag, Mexican flag, etc. in any major city in this country without being charged with a hate crime?  You may get away with it in some little one horse town down in 'Bama but not in most places.

And Mac, I'm sorry I do not see a difference in an young American  man burning the flag or a foreigner burning our flag. Are they not protesting the same things?  Is there not malice and distain for our countries ideals and beliefs in their actions regardless of where they were born?
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Offline big medicine

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« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2005, 12:35:10 PM »
I remember taking an oath to uphold support and deffend the constitution. Not the flag. I do not believe in being disrespectful to the flag. But on the other hand I cant see putting someone in jail for doing it either. Some people have no honor, and you can not force people to have honor. Why should we use tax dollars to support a person in jail plus their lawyer fees for burning a flag? We might need to turn loose a child molester to make room for a flag burner, that is real good use uf tax payer money.

If we pass a law against it, just what are we going to do with these people? We already have people released early from jail do to over crowding, and we are going to spend money to lock up some idiot for burning a flag. And yes I see them as idiots. Are they worth wasting my time on and going to jail over. No! I accually prefer to laugh at them, because it Pi$$es them off even more. Yes the flag is a symbol of this country, but it is just that a symbol. Does it change anything about our history, or our make up? You could burn the whole supply of flags and when you wake up in the morning it will still be the good ol USA. Nobody is physically harmed. And they are still idiots. I look at it as the old saying, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. And as I said before It does NOT cheapen what my friends or I did or gave. It does not make me ashamed having served. Because my flag is treated with the higest respect.

I agree rights are a two way street. And I stated that before. A free country has it draw backs in that idiots have rights also. But it seems ok to offend one group, and  that group is BAD if they speak up. But yet if that group offends anyone else they are nothing more than bigots, racist, right wing, ect ect. Funny how that works.

 Being offensive is also a two way street, if you are going to offend someone, dont cry when you get offended. And that is the problem with many that would burn the flag. It is ok for them to do what they do, but when they get offended they want to go cry about it and tell how bad the people are that offended them. They will never usderstand the concept of debate they dont understand that as soon as they torch a flag many people are done hearing what they have to say. It is not a very effective way of getting your point across.

And Mr Layton I apologize for my comments in the above post prior to this. I felt it was your point that we dont have the right to disagree or see someone as an idiot and we are wrong if we do. I do not support taking away the rights of anyone, not even those that I feel dont deserve to live in this great country. I just wish they would move to where ever it is that they think is better.

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2005, 01:00:53 PM »
Quote from: Mac11700
Quote from: Dali Llama
Quote from: Mac11700
cross burning here in America symbolizes something far more synister...the elimination of a couple of races of Americans...


What be those two races, inquire Dali Llama? :?  :?  :?


Jews and African Americans...

Mac

race - A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

Jew - An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture.

 :?  :?:  :?: :?:  :?: :?:  :?: :?:  :?: :?:  :?: :?:  :?: :?:  :?: :?:  :?: :?
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Offline powderman

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« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2005, 02:35:55 PM »
Sorry guys, but I see no difference between a Godless follower of islam, and a so called American burning my flag, they are both enemies to me, and my nation. How about the flag raised over Iwo Jima in WW11? Just a piece of cloth? How about the flag raised over the trade center rubble after 9 11 01? Just a piece of cloth? Or how about the flag that was on my Dads coffin before he was buried? Another piece of cloth? Not to me. I see those who burn my flag as enemies of our nation, and of mine too. I guess for some of you it would be free speech for anyone to steal the liberty bell and melt it down for scrap? After all, it's just an object, right? I was raised in Illinois. We raised and lowered our flag at school every day. It was carefully folded just right, and never touched the ground. We did it solemnly, quietly, and with respect. The battle hymn of the republic was played before each and every ball game, we all stood at attention with hand over heart. Every morning we recited the pledge of allegience, patriotism meant something back then. Wher did all of that loyalty and patriotism go? Anybody have an answer? POWDERMAN.  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline BamBams

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« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2005, 02:47:55 PM »
Where did it all go?  That's a simple, but excellent question Powderman........(most excellent questions are simple)

Do you recall the scriptures saying something like:  "Beware the leaven of the Pharisees, for it works it's way through the whole dough."?

Look no further than your television set, your FM radio, you liberal school teachers, and the newspaper.  It's really easy to see where the "leaven" has worked so far.
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Offline big medicine

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« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2005, 03:15:41 PM »
Since we are talking "proper" respect and displaying of the flag anybody care to address this. Is this guy an enemy for his impropper display of the flag?




I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

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Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2005, 03:46:04 PM »
Quote
GB do you honestly think that you could publicly burn the Israeli flag, Cuban flag, Vietnamese flag, Mexican flag, etc. in any major city in this country without being charged with a hate crime? You may get away with it in some little one horse town down in 'Bama but not in most places.


Well yes actually I do think I could should I be so inclined which of course I am not. I would never burn the flag of any country, even one I recognize as my enemy. But that's me not them.

The oath taken is not to defend the flag as Big Medicine said, it is to defend the US Constituion. That I am willing to die for if need be. But the flag? I don't think so.


Powderman you are being a bit ridiculous with this one:

Quote
I guess for some of you it would be free speech for anyone to steal the liberty bell and melt it down for scrap? After all, it's just an object, right?


And you KNOW you are. The liberty bell is not the same as a flag, any given flag bought by the person burning it. Now if that person stole YOUR flag and burned it that would be wrong and for the same reasons as the liberty bell issue above. It is NOT THEIRS to do with as they wish. If they go buy a flag then it is theirs and they can do with it what they wish.


Do I believe the flag should be accorded respect and treated properly? Sure I do. Is it a crime to disrespect it? Hell no.

I am sick and tired of passing new laws in this country to tell everyone when they can breathe. I dare say that 99.9% of the laws passed since the Bill of Rights have been totally unneeded and have had no real impact on society other than to take away freedoms and rights for no good purpose. In general I am opposed to EVERY new law proposed. It is NOT NEEDED. We have to many laws now. What we need to be doing is repealing some of them.

If ya wanna get right down to it we could have gotten along pretty good with only one. The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I try my best to follow it. Figure that really covers most all of it if you really do follow it.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2005, 04:08:36 PM »
Quote from: powderman
I was raised in Illinois.
I'm sorry, comment Dali Llama. :cry:  :(  :cry:
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Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2005, 04:12:30 PM »
Quote from: Brett
GB do you honestly think that you could publicly burn the Israeli flag, Cuban flag, Vietnamese flag, Mexican flag, etc. in any major city in this country without being charged with a hate crime?  You may get away with it in some little one horse town down in 'Bama but not in most places.

:eek: Dali Llama say that sound like derogatory remark about Heart of Dixie. :shock:
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Offline Brett

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« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2005, 04:33:16 PM »
Quote from: Dali Llama
Quote from: Brett
GB do you honestly think that you could publicly burn the Israeli flag, Cuban flag, Vietnamese flag, Mexican flag, etc. in any major city in this country without being charged with a hate crime?  You may get away with it in some little one horse town down in 'Bama but not in most places.

:eek: Dali Llama say that sound like derogatory remark about Heart of Dixie. :shock:


Nope, just know what small southern towns are like. See I live just outside of one that is not even big enough for a traffic light, only has one flashing caution light.  But I like it 'cause folks here still respect the flag, we stand at attention when the war vet's pass by in the 4th of July parade and we look out for one another.
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Offline powderman

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« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2005, 04:38:07 PM »
I guess the liberty bell is a bit much, I reckon I just see the flag in a different light than some. That doesn't make me any more,or less patriotic than anyone here, just a difference of opinion.
BIG MEDICINE. That picture is indeed a misuse of the flag, but I don't consider it to be disrespectful, just kinda rubbing it in saddams face.
I ask again, what happened to the loyalty and patriotism over the last 30-40 years? I have a theory, I'd like to hear others. I in NO WAY mean to infer that those not agreeing with me are any less loyal or patriotic than I, we just have different opinions on the flag. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2005, 04:59:44 PM »
Quote from: powderman

I ask again, what happened to the loyalty and patriotism over the last 30-40 years?
Dali Llama say that albeit correlation do not necessarily imply causation, he suggest that powderman consider that aforementioned time period coincide with rise of child rearing methods espoused by one Dr. Benjamin Spock. :oops:  :(  :cry:
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Offline big medicine

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« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2005, 05:25:56 PM »
To me making a law to "protect" the flag will cause more problems than it fixes. It would make burning a flag or impropper display of the flag a crime. I have seen some pictures of some very distasteful "art" work where the flag was used as the medium. All of this stuff bothers me, but here is where I see the problems.

1. Sure you nab...some of the flag burners, spend lots of money on trials, jail, lawyers ect. But what about the others that get nabed also. Like the Marine in the above photo. Just drive through any town, and I mean any town and see how many flags are improperly displayed. Good people with good intentions, but flags not flown right. Flags attached to the house that are allowed to touch bushes, or the house, or their gate ect. Or the flag that is flown at night with out a light. say the owner doesnt get home in time to take it down, or the light burns out, or it is lit improperly. Or the torn and tattered flags that people still fly, or the dirty filthy flags that people fly and dont replace. How about those that improperly dispose of a flag, or fly a flag from the antena of their car, and so on. Anybody here guilty?

2. What do we do with this law? How is it enforced? What kinds of fines or jail time? Think about it, what do we do with these people? This is a bigger can of worms than just punishing some hippie burning a flag.

As GB pointed out it is already a crime to destroy the property of another person. And  I had stated before that if someone came to burn my flag or the flag that covered my Dad's casket they would find themselves in a world of SH#$, I would not be tolerent or understanding.

I just think we could be shooting ourselves in the foot and opening a door that we really dont want to see whats behind it.

Powderman, I wish I had an answer to your question, even more so I wish I had the solution. I can tell you this. My 4 and 6 year olds have respect for the flag, I have taught them from the time they could stand. They know to stand and remove their caps and cover their heart when the flag comes by. My kids enjoy helping put up and take down the flag. I live in a one horse town, we dont even have flashing light. But we do have a court house on the square in the center of town. We fly the flags of the vets that have passed on. It is a big deal here they are flown on Flag day, Memoral day, 4th of July, Labor day, Columbus day, and of course Veterans Day. My Wife and 2 kids and I usually help put them up and take them down, as well as 1/2 the town. So it is not totally lost.

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2005, 05:45:58 PM »
Totally agree Big Medicine. A law is just not the answer. This country is headed to hell and moving fast toward it. Why was asked above.

Well in my opinion it started with Madaliene O'hare if I recall the name right. Wasn't she the atheist who got the ball rolling?

We took GOD out of the schools and public places, we banded prayer that might be seen by anyone whom it might offend. We stopped parents from busting their kids butts even when they needed busting. We educated so many lawyers they had nothing to do but chase ambulances and push for lawsuits. We gave women the right to vote and look how they vote now.  :eek:  OK I'm almost kidding on that one. Notice I said ALMOST.

Somewhere along the line we as a country decided it was more important that our Congressmen and Senators have SENIORITY in office than for them to actually represent our best interests. So we keep sending them back even when what they are doing is clearly NOT in our best interests. Along this same line it got to where it was OK to elect a president who wasn't fit to even be a citizen. Yeah Billary.

So we have laws now to protect us from ourselves and laws to protect criminals from us. You cannot legislate morals and you cannot legislate common sense. You cannot make anyone safer via legislation. All you can do is take away freedom and liberty.

No one wants to take responsibility anymore. Heck it wasn't my fault I killed those folks. I had a bad childhood. I only got ice cream once a week. That's why I did it. Geez.

Serious guys I think we're on that long slippery down hill slope and ain't got any brakes and even if we did the slope is too steep and too slippery. We're gonna hit bottom. It's just a matter of when. And then of what we do afterward.


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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2005, 07:28:26 PM »
GB Not only did we take GOD out of the schools but we also let a bunch of liberals and liberal judges say that parents cannot disipline their kids nor can the schools. What did this give us a generation of spoiled kids who never had to pay for their mistakes. So now they find out when they wind up in the slammer and you wonder why the prisons are crowded? Does not take a rocket scientist to figure it out!  :x  Jim
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2005, 08:16:03 PM »
Brett::
 
Quote
And Mac, I'm sorry I do not see a difference in an young American man burning the flag or a foreigner burning our flag. Are they not protesting the same things? Is there not malice and distain for our countries ideals and beliefs in their actions regardless of where they were born?
_

 
Of course you can't see the difference,my friend...that's the point...your thinking with your heart...not your head...and 99.9% of the time...that's how stupid laws get put on the books...for all to suffer from them...but...to answer your statement....no...they are not protesting the same thing...and they are not both trying to get the same responses...the boy on the roof of the car...wants change thru his actions...the militants...wants blood spilled...ours...major difference.....and for the last part...no...there is no malice and disdain for our countries ideals..... on the boys part...he wants to bring about a change in what he feels is a just cause...he isn't inticing anyone to riot or cause mayhem in the streets...he isn't calling for the death of thousands of innocent lives...the militants on the other hand are doing just that...they want to see our streets flow with the blood of innocent women and children...in retribution for all that's wrong in  their miserable lives...lastly...what the militants are doing.... is to show disrespect to the American people as a Whole in front of any news camera rolling...the  boy is trying to exercising his Right to protest in front of the President...and from what I saw of it...isn't directing to a camera...but towards the President...
 
When we layed my Father to rest in Jeffersons Barracks National Cemetery...he was given full military Honours..out of the 100 people that attended...there wasn't a dry eye on anyone...including the Honour guard....if anyone ever tried to burn that flag...he would loose his Right to breath,I would see to it..............that flag means a great deal to me and my family...and it is hard to see anyone burn our flag...here or abroad...but...I know in my heart...that what I've seen happen here...is far different than what I've witness in foreign countries,I've seen it...and felt their anger and disdain for us...but the sad part is...that it can be so easily mistaken for being un-patriotic for anyone of us to do the same... especially when some of the greatest patriots this nation has ever had...have done so themselves...............
 
Now...on another entirely different subject.....dali...3 times you've tried unsuccessfully to bait people here on this thread myself included...I strongly urge you to cease and desist from trying it again with me...we all have acted like adults here on this thread...each have given their responses...and everyone here respects the others opinions...we may not like them...but we all are acting responsibly...except for you...and I hope the Moderator or Management doesn't lock the thread down because of your tactics of trying to disrupt a level headed discussion...and turn it into a flaming war... if your not going to add anything pertinent to this discussion..please stay out of it...  
 
Mac
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2005, 11:47:31 PM »
I, as many others here, have known the sting of a loved one lost in a united effort to protect this land. I cherish the memories of friends who have gone this way.
Each and every conflict this nation has pursued has produced widows and orphans who never had the opportunity to see this person enjoy the fruits of his labor.
To a person, man or woman, I doubt the last thoughts running thru their minds, as life flashed before them, was of a flag. Generally, from some experience, it was momma or a sweetheart, or children, on occasion remorse.
Now you can put this flag on a pedestal and raise it as high, or higher, than the Cross of calvary if you want, that is your privilege, your right.
I think you do disservice to those that have fallen. You have made a piece of cloth, heck boys it aint even cloth anymore, something more than than life, more than flesh and blood.
You would do well to just go on your way and be quiet with your thoughts, praise em to yourownself. I will give honor and glory to those who have passed, raise memories of those who gave all, honor them and their loved ones with a flag, but boys I will not raise that flag above them. That flag, me and you, are here because of them, that flag has never shed one drop of blood.
I cherish the flag that draped my Daddy's casket, I do, but boys you better honor him more than that flag or I will fight ya.
Now you can stick this flag business where the sun doan shine I have had it with this post.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2005, 01:10:30 AM »
Quote from: Mac11700

 
Quote
dali...3 times you've tried unsuccessfully to bait people here on this thread myself included...I strongly urge you to cease and desist from trying it again with me...
Dali Llama say he merely pose simple, cogent questions of Mac11700, and do not understand why he steadfastly refuse to respond.  Once again, Dali wish to know how Mac11700 equate race with adherence to particular religion??? :?
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2005, 01:32:05 AM »
Quote from: jh45gun
we also let a bunch of liberals and liberal judges say that parents cannot disipline their kids nor can the schools. What did this give us a generation of spoiled kids who never had to pay for their mistakes.
Dali Llama say that albeit correlation do not necessarily imply causation, he suggest that jh45gun consider that aforementioned events coincide with rise of child rearing methods espoused by one Dr. Benjamin Spock. :(  :cry:  :(
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Offline Brett

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« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2005, 02:48:09 AM »
Quote from: Graybeard
Totally agree Big Medicine. A law is just not the answer. This country is headed to hell and moving fast toward it. Why was asked above.

Well in my opinion it started with Madaliene O'hare if I recall the name right. Wasn't she the atheist who got the ball rolling?

We took GOD out of the schools and public places, we banded prayer that might be seen by anyone whom it might offend. We stopped parents from busting their kids butts even when they needed busting. We educated so many lawyers they had nothing to do but chase ambulances and push for lawsuits. We gave women the right to vote and look how they vote now.  :eek:  OK I'm almost kidding on that one. Notice I said ALMOST.

Somewhere along the line we as a country decided it was more important that our Congressmen and Senators have SENIORITY in office than for them to actually represent our best interests. So we keep sending them back even when what they are doing is clearly NOT in our best interests. Along this same line it got to where it was OK to elect a president who wasn't fit to even be a citizen. Yeah Billary.

So we have laws now to protect us from ourselves and laws to protect criminals from us. You cannot legislate morals and you cannot legislate common sense. You cannot make anyone safer via legislation. All you can do is take away freedom and liberty.

No one wants to take responsibility anymore. Heck it wasn't my fault I killed those folks. I had a bad childhood. I only got ice cream once a week. That's why I did it. Geez.

Serious guys I think we're on that long slippery down hill slope and ain't got any brakes and even if we did the slope is too steep and too slippery. We're gonna hit bottom. It's just a matter of when. And then of what we do afterward.


I think you've hit the nail on the head GB.  As stated earlier I am not proposing any new laws banning the act.   I also did not mean to imply that I thought you should be arrested for burning another countries flag in public I'm just saying that you in all likelihood would be.  And as far as having laws specifically for  "hate crimes" and the administering of  more severe penalties for "Hate Crimes", I think that is a load of rubbish also.  Assault is assault, murder is murder, destruction of private property is destruction of private property regardless of the motive.  I do feel however that these individuals show a total disregard for those who died defending the flag and should find a better way of showing their displeasure with the acts of the Government.  I'ld love to know what percentage of these flag burners have ever stepped foot into a voting booth.
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Offline powderman

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« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2005, 03:36:30 AM »
GRAYBEARD. YEEEEEEESSS. My thought exactly Sir. After God was basicly banned from our nation the other crap just naturally followed. Banning child discipline, banning capitol punishment, banning God from our schools and courts has made America morally bankrupt. I will agree that new laws are not needed about flag burning, the perps should be given extra gas to help them along, I'll even throw the gas and apply the match.. :-D  :-D.Good discussion guys. Gotta go to work, later. POWDERMAN.   :D  :D  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2005, 04:17:26 AM »
Let it rest Dali.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2005, 05:10:13 AM »
Quote from: powderman
GRAYBEARD. YEEEEEEESSS. My thought exactly Sir. After God was basicly banned from our nation the other crap just naturally followed. Banning child discipline, banning capitol punishment, banning God from our schools and courts has made America morally bankrupt. I will agree that new laws are not needed about flag burning, the perps should be given extra gas to help them along, I'll even throw the gas and apply the match.. :-D  :-D.Good discussion guys. Gotta go to work, later. POWDERMAN.   :D  :D  :D  :D


Powerman, I don't want to take the thread on a tangent or anything like that, but there are a lot of remnants of the 60's that have had a devastating impact on the standards that many of us look to as moral touchstones.

However, your signature blurb points to the issue that I believe is, without doubt, the most corrupting to our nation's psyche and damaging to the moral fabric.

Since we decided that killing children for the sake of convienience is OK, it's all been down-hill.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.