Trigger job.

[Donaldo]

Well I did a trigger job on my 223 UV today.  The stock trigger was not really bad, maybe 4-5 lbs.  But man it seemed like 40-50 lbs sometimes.  So I got all the print outs that I had collected, and re-read them about 3-4 times.  Sure glad I did because you sure can't see inside one of them Handi frames.  The slave pin is an absolute necessity.  You can make them out of about anything of the right diameter.  Wood, steel, or plastic.  A 3/16" drill bit works pretty good but you need a short piece about 1/2 inch long.  Anyway took it all apart, even the latching lug part.  Actually it was pretty easy.  Not any real surprises.  However I don't think on the average job it is necessary to take the upper pin out and remove the latch lug and the transfer bar.  If I had it to do over I would not remove this part.  Just the trigger and hammer.  I also don't think it is a good idea to cut a coil off the trigger return spring, which I did.  I was very careful and as I worked on the parts I kept looking at them thru a loop of about 10X.  All these parts are investment castings and should be treated as such.  They are not like regular machined pieces.  There are tiny pits and such in the surface.  The surface is very hard and just mostly needs to be polished.  I used 320, 600 and 1200 grit wet or dry paper laid on a flat steel plate to do the polishing on since I didn't have a fine stone.  I have sharpened chisels by this method for years and can get them razor sharp.  Anyway... took one coil off the trigger return spring, polished all the pins and inner bores of the parts and the sear and hammer notch.  May have went a bit too far as the trigger is VERY light.  Probably too light for the average person, but I am used to light triggers as most of my bolt rifles have adjustable triggers and I set them as light as they will go.  I would guess it is not more than about 1.5 lbs.  I made up my own grease for the pins and such.  I used Vasaline and powdered graphite.  Seems to work real good.  A weight this light is not recommended for hunting when you might have gloves on.  Anyway.. I am pleased with the results and am looking forward to the next trip to the range to see if this helps.  But man this thing is really light now.  May have to go back in and put a stronger trigger return spring in.  But we will see.  

[Coastwatcher]

I like the idea of replacing the spring with a softer one instead of cutting the original spring, that way you can always put it back to the way it was.  If its really a problem, you can order replacement springs from Brownells.

[Donaldo]

Yep, I know, I checked it out.  So far it is not a problem.  Its not all that expensive to order a new hammer and trigger either.  Unless it gets lighter, it will be fine.  Anyone that is handy with tools should try it.  Anyone interested I have pics of the way I did it.  I made up a facsimile of the frame on plywood and set the pins in it.  That way I could tell how everything worked.  It is not really that big of a deal.  You just need to be careful of how much you take off of the contact points.

[MarkA]

How many pins did you take out.  I took only the bottom three, the trigger group out, wimp, I know.  How much 'Stuff' comes out with the hammer?  Did you drill the hammer to lighten it?

[Donaldo]

MarkA,
No I did not drill the hammer. But I did think about it.  I think the hammer could be made lighter for a faster lock time, which would be good but I don't think you should mess too much with the internal parts of the Handi.  They are investment castings.  As such they tend to have a very hard exterior and a somewhat softer interior.  I wish someone made an aluminum hammer extension.  All the contact points should just be polished, not ground on.  The surface of these parts if you look at them thru about 10X magnification, appears to have minute surface pits.  Polish them on 400, 600 and 1200 grit "wet or dry" paper laid on a glass or steel plate is about all I think you should do to them.  Just remember they are castings, not machined pieces of solid steel.  Polish the pin holes and pins, lube them with a graphite or moly lube, polish the contact points and you will be a happy camper.  Today I took the trigger out of my handi and streached the trigger return spring about 1/4 inch and re installed it.  It is a bit better now.  Still crisp but just not quite so light.  Probably about 2# now.  I also picked up a small spring today at a hardware store, just got the smallest they had.  It was a bit too large for the trigger return spring but I cut it in half and used it to put inside the spring that seats the latching lug thingie.  Can't remember just what it is called.  This is ala Fred, double springs on this thing, gives a positive lock up.  To remove the trigger group, all you need to remove is the two lower pins.  One large one at the back of the trigger and the small one at the front of the trigger gard.  To get it back in with no problem, cock the hammer, that takes putting your finger into the bottom of the receiver and moving the latching lug forward so the hammer will cock.  Hold or tie the hammer back and insert the trigger group, with the slave pin holding it together, into the bottom of the receiver and push the large pin home, pushing the slave pin out at the same time.  It is really a pretty simple system once you see how it all works.

[MarkA]

Donaldo:
1. What do you have to do to get the hammer out, which pins and then how much more stuff than the hammer?

2. Can you use a ball point pen spring?  Does Fred have a spring size?

Thanks

[Donaldo]

MarkA,
Well I just wrote a book on the trigger work, clicked on submit and it went poof, out in space, I guess.  So here goes again.  Probably be shorter this time.  Go the FredM's site for info on Handi work.  It is http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/tweakultra.html.  Also do a search for Perklo on the NEF centerfire forum.  Good info.  I think the hammer pin is the one just above the rear guard large pin.  Take the trigger group out, release the pressure on the hammer spring, drive the hammer pin about 1/4 to 3/8 inch out.  Remove the spring and then pull the pin out and the hammer comes out by itself.  Nothing else falls out.  No need to take the latching lug out as it has little or nothing to do with the trigger "pull".  A spring off a ball point pin will not work, not strong enough.  If you have the time take your trigger return spring with you and make the hardware stores, or auto parts places.  I found a small one at True Value Hardware.  It was their #1 small compression spring.  That may or may not mean anything.  It was too large for the trigger but cut in half it just fit inside the latching lug spring.  Made the latch up a bit more positive.  I don't recommend doing any filing or grinding on the trigger or hammer.  These are investment castings and the surface has small pits and rough places.  Just use some 400, 600 grit wet or dry paper on a glass or steel plate to polish the contact surfaces.  Also polish the pins and pin holes in the hammer and trigger.  Get a small cheap magnifier, like a loop with at least 5x power to inspect the surfaces and see what you have to work with and how you are progressing.  Be careful as there is only about 30-40 thousands contact between the trigger and hammer.  If you screw it up, new hammers are about $9.85 from Brownells, don't know what the trigger is.  They are also available from NEF, don't know their price either.  I took a piece of hardwood, put the frame on it and marked where the pins are, drilled the holes with a drill press, put the pins in these holes, assembled the trigger and hammer on the pins so I could see how they worked together.  It helps to understand how they work together.  Have fun, but be careful.  

[quickdtoo]

There's something wrong with the link, here tis....

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/tweakultra.html

And Perklo's instruction...

http://www.perkloafm.com/

[Donaldo]

Quick..
Thanks, don't know what we would do without you.  I don't know what happened, I copied Fred's link right off the site. :?  Glad you got Perklo's site in there too.  There was another thread and some pics about how to hone the Handi trigger but I could not find it.  I think it was Raynor or something like that.  It had the best pics of how to hold the trigger and hammer on the hone.  I have a copy I printed off but it printed off center and lost a bunch of words at the end of each sentence, but the pics were ok.  Do you know how to find it.  I think when I searched for it this morn it said it was unavailable.  Got me a good crisp trigger now on my Handi. Did some other things to it this morn also.  Soon as I get a chance to go to the range and try them I will post them.  That is if they help, otherwise I will probably keep my mouth shut.  

[quickdtoo]

Raynor's trigger job instructions are in the Misc H&R Talk forum, don't really understand why it's there and not a stick here, but it is. Your link to Fred's site looks correct, but it doesn't work for some reason, that's why I posted the link again, which appears identical to yours, I worked on it for a while never did figure out what's wrong with yours link! :?  Anyway, here's a direct link to Raynor's Trigger Hone.....

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=52341

I need to do one on my new .280, it was at 3lb 15oz, consistently then I tried the BBF push on the hammer and pull the trigger trick and ended up with consistent 4lb 5oz trigger!!!! What's up with that?

[Mitch in MI]

I wish someone made an aluminum hammer extension.

There was one in Cabela's catalog last I knew, something like $8-10.
It's more or less symetrical, the factory one is one sided.