Help me figure out how to shoot straight

[LJ Barrero]

Hi every one.

I seem to tend to shoot to the left with my pistols.  The heavier the load the further to the left.  That does not happen with my .22 LR pistol or with low recoil 357 mag or 44 mag.  As soon as I add velocity or bullet weight, things change to the point that I shoot as far as 6 to 8 inches to the left at distances as short as 15 yards to 25 yards. What should I do?

LJB

[Dusty Miller]

That sure has the smell of the old flincheryoosio for sure.  Do a lot of dry firing, that should help.  When I'm at the range and start flinching I'll frequently leave in five expended cases and put in one live round, then spin the cylinder.  I can tell in a hurry when the hammer falls on an expended round whether or not I'm flinching.  Then its a matter of relaxing, concentrating on the front sight, and making a smooth trigger pull.

[95Road King]

You are definatley flinching. Do as the other poster said. Also if your right handed, put your LEFT index finger on the side plate when you shoot.
 If you shoot left handed, :?  :?  :?

[Redhawk1]

What you are doing is squeezing the gun so tight that you are pushing the gun to the left when you shoot. You are anticipating the recoil and pushing the gun to the left. Squeeze the trigger, it should be a smooth pull. Your shot should surprize you when it goes off. Hope this helps. Also work on the no bullets in every chamber and you will see when you do it.  

[LJ Barrero]

Guys.  You hit the nail in the head.  :oops:

I hate to admit it but you are right  :oops: .  The recomendations responded so far have a lot of truth.  Flinching is definitely the worst.  I will follow the recomendations.  Please, don't hesitate to give me more advice.  I am becoming a handgun hunting fan and I had some success but I had more misses than success and I definitely like to correct them.

Please, advice in a good de-flinching load that I can use with either the 44 mag or the 357 mag.  Tha will be appreciated greatly.  Thank you.

LJB

[Dusty Miller]

If you are relatively new to big bore  handguns and your're using heavy loads then you want to back off and do a lot of practice with light loads, then move on to moderate loads, then back to heavy.

[LJ Barrero]

Dusty Miller,

I am shooting 357 mag and 44 mag since 1995 or 1996.  I started with the 357 mag.  I had a S&W 686, 6" and I killed my first deer at about 80 yards (after I missed 4 shots to the same deer broad side).  Off the bench, I could put 6 shots in a 1.5" at 50 yards and a ragged hole at 25 yards with a scope.  I plinked with that gun a lot but my loads were just a little heavier than a 38 special (gauges by the sound).  By 1997, after reading a lot on the 357 mag vs 44 mag for deer, I made the painfull error of trading the nice accurate 357 for a T/C Encore pistol in 44 mag.  This gun was very accurate (2" groups at 100 yds) off the bench but I missed a shot to a deer at 20 yards with it while hunting (luckily, the deer did not know where the shot came from and gave me a second shot opportunity and that worked better).  After this, I hated to carry the Encore pistol because it was too heavy and my off hand shooting was way off.  I got rid of the T/C Encore and got a S&W 629 in 6.5".  For 3 years on the row, I did not kill any deer with it not even by luck.  Now I have a S&W 629, 5" and I love it.  I also have a Ruger GP100, 6" and it's nice.  Even though I reload and plink a lot, I hve not gotten a decent load and in addition to that, I developed a flinch.  I really like to correct all those problems.  I have to admit.  I had been lazy to develop a good load and tested in the range to measure the groups.  All I have done all this years it's been plinking and I tend to aim to the right so it can hit the target in the left.

I am putting a stop on all this wrong way of practicing and I like to start practicing the right way.  All the advice will be heed.  I am hoping that by the 2005 deer season I can have the confidence and the accuracy that I need to completely become a hand gun hunter.  Thanks.

LJB

[Redhawk1]

LJ Barrero, you have realized you have a problem and are willing to correct it. Some guys won't admit they flinch and just keep shooting bad. You are on the right track.  

[Catfish]

If you don`t reload start, if you do here is a load that is cheap to load and pretty accurate. Load a good 240 grn. hard cast bullet over 6 grns. of Bullseye and use eather Win. primers or a mag. primer. Then do alot of shooting. I used to shoot 200 rounds every time I went out and I would shoot 2 or 3 days a week. Killed alot of tin cans at 60 to 80 yrds with my old 3 screw RSB. Do most of your shooting off hand, but shoot some from a rest every once in a while to see how your groups a progressing. Now, get out there and practice!!!!

[LJ Barrero]

Catfish,

I will definitely try your load.  I was also wondering if there was a similar recipe using Blue Dot; since I have a 5 pound can already.  I will try any other recipe as well so please keep them coming.  Thank you.

LJB

[rockbilly]

Sounds like you must be "heeling" the gun.  That's normally caused from anticipation of recoil.  You are pushing the heel of your hand (bottom) into the bottom of the grip as you work the trigger.  This normally causes shots to the left upper portion of the target for a right handed shooter, or to the right upper portion for a lefty.  Practice at home dry firing, work on watching the sights and trigger squeeze.  Then go the range and practice with a revolver, five fired cases and one hot.  I have used this as a means of practice for many years.  I would use a .357, and after a while of practicing this way, I would go to 3 fired, 3 hot.  I would use several different loads, and have someone else load the gun so I did not know what was coming next.  Say load a .38 WC light load, a +P, a hot .357. and alternate the position of the loads. Maybe a fired case, .38, .357, two fired, then the +P.  Next time maybe the .357, fired case, .38, fired case, +P, fired case.  Just continue to work this way and practice, practice, practice.

Even after you have broke the habit, it doesn't hurt to continue this method of practice.  It will only serve to prevent flinch in the future.

Hope this helps.

[LJ Barrero]

Thank you Rockbilly.

You know what (to all of you helping me here).  You guys can write a book titled: "Shooting therapy...The road to recovery from flinching" and include all the other areas of error in shooting handguns from 22's to 500 mag and their respective solutions).  I will buy the first copy.  I think you will sell good.  Thank you for helping me.

LJB

[S.B.]

All the above posters have made good a valid points. I have a card listing hits on target for right and left handed people from days gone by for bullseye shooters. Says : for a right hander, too much or too little trigger finger?

[LJ Barrero]

Catfish,

I reloaded a couple of hundred rounds of 214 gr Lee  bullet mold and try some of them.  I also bought 500 rounds of the 240 gr SWC hard cast to start loading that soon.

The load was excellent!   :grin:  The first group at 25 yds was down string of about 2.5" with 3 of the 6 shots touching.  The group was 3" to the right.  That got adjusted and its shooting in the black.  The cylinder was black stained after I finish the session.

Then, I also had loaded 158 gr SWC hard cast, 4.0 gr Bullseye for my .357 mag and the gun continues to shoot left but not as much as before.  The cylinder was also blackened stained from firing.  Seems that the 44 mag has a better accuracy so far with the recipe.

Now that I am begining to hit close to where I aim, my pistols are becoming very interesting again! :wink:

Thank you.

LJB
 

[xphunter]

One other thought to consider.  Even the location of your finger on the triggger can make a difference.  Put the trigger in the middle of the end of your finger (last joint to the tip-in the middle of those two points).  Hope that makes sense and when you practice dry-firing try to train your self when you pull straigh back and not clench and or flinch.

[LJ Barrero]

I am also doing the 5 empties and one loaded round.  I spin the cylinder without looking and then aim and pull the trigger.  The first time I do it, I see no flinching from my part.  The second time and so on, I show some flinching signs and I feel embarrassed to see myself flinching that bad (even with Catfish's light load).  I have a long way to go yet.

XPHunter,

Thank you for the advice on the trigger pull.  I was doing it that way but was not consistant.  Thanks.

[xphunter]

LJ,
No since of being embarrassed, I still have to focus on not flinching, depending on what I am shooting and the number of rounds I will shoot it.
We look forward to heqring about your progress.  It is hard to break habits, but it can be done.  Keep up the good work

[LJ Barrero]

I am progressing well so far with the load Catfish suggested.  I did try putting some of the rounds I was using for deer hunting last season and I can't believe the difference.  I've just don't understand why I was shooting such hot loads for hunting before.

Anyways, I am begining to kill pop cans some times 5 out of 6 shots at 25 yards with my S&W 629, 5" bbl revolver (this revolver is a keeper!)
As soon as I gain more confidence, I will venture to 50 yards to see what happens.

LJB
 

[Flash]

Try squeezing the trigger ever so slowly like a rifle but while keeping a firm grip on the revolver. I grip a relvolver with the same pressure that you would normally associate with a firm handshake. I let the muzzle roll up after firing the gun and don't fight the recoil. You'll find that if you let the gun travel up after the shot, you aren't absorbing as much recoil and the shot will be less of a shock. The muzzle jump might be around 12" or so for the 44 mag but if you guide the gun and just ride the muzzle jump out, the shot will be much more pleasant. I shoot my Super 16 45/70 the same way and it makes it mush easier to shoot.

[donzov]

In a earlier reply S.B. mentioned a card he uses for bullseye. There's a similar chart available at www.sportshooter.com, it's in their improving section and in their downloadable target section and shows all the possible causes for shooting off of the bullseye. Their site also has an awfull lot of tips and techniques to improve your shooting.
    As far as a practice load goes, I use 6.9 gr. of unique and a 240 gr. LSWC in my 6.5 inch 629 and don't have to change sight settings when I switch back to my bowling pin load of 19.5 gr. of 2400 and a 240 gr. crimplock silhouette bullet.
    Good luck and keep shooting.
                                                                     Donzov

[dan61psu]

My dad his this same problem with his 44 mag.  He hasn't had these issues with his other small bore revolvers.  I notice that when he shoots the magnums at the range, and then switches back to specials, his accuracy is off.  

The 44 magnum round has him flinching so much that he has sworn off magnum 44's till he can shoot solid groups with 44 specials.  He has to train himself on the specials for the shooting of the large bore wheel gun before he eases into magnum rounds.

My suggestions, put your magnums aside for a few days of shooting and see if you can get your accuracy back in check with specials, not to mention using the methods provided above (namely the one live and 5 dead rounds).

Good luck!

[Gregory]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before.  Contact the NRA and see if there is a Basic Pistol Marksmanship class in your area.   It will instill the basics and then it's just a matter of practice after that.

[TScottO]

Try a set of good hearing protection as well. A lot of times people will jerk, flinch, or close their eyes just because of the loud boom.

As for as the flinch because the gun comes back at you with a little authority… I’m sure you’ve been hit harder in a fist fight in grammar school. The first step in handling the recoil flinch is to realize it won’t hurt you and you control where the gun travels while it’s fired.

Be Safe,
Scott

[AntlersDS]

I have had the same problem with my new Bisley SBH Hunter .44.  These big bore handguns are new to me also, but it can be addicting as I am finding out.  I keep shooting to the left almost no matter how much I adjust the rear sight.  Yesterday my first shot was perfect and then the next ones were to the left 4,5,6 inches or so.  I am going again today and try some of the things you all have suggested so appreciate all the helpful information.  By the way, I started out shooting 180 gr Hornady and 240 gr Hornady factory loads.  I was going to just shoot one box of 180 grain, but it was too much fun to pass up so shot the other box too.  These guns are great and the recoil is not that bad although I guess it is enough to make you flinch.  Also, how do you get the powder burn marks off the outside of the cylinder?  Thanks for any feedback.

[LJ Barrero]

Excellent recomendations!  I can't believe how much I am learning from you guys.

Since last time I replayed, I have made some more observations about my shooting:

1.  I have been doing some dry fire with all of my revolvers (S&W 629, Ruger GP100, and Taurus 218 Bee).

2.  My S&W 629:  the trigger is crisp.   The trigger pull is consistance and when it breaks, the trigger stops and feels hard enough that is your finger will not over travel after it breaks.  The point of aim is right on!

3.  My GP100 has a light trigger pull (2 lbs? maybe).  It feels quite lighter than the S&W629.  The thing is that when the trigger breaks, the weight of the revolver and the trigger relaxes that I end up touching the trigger guard while the muzzle drops a little.  I bet this is worse when the round goes off.

4.  The Taurus 218 falls in between the S&W629 (just a little harder) and the GP100 (when the trigger breaks).

5.  Also, I put the original factory grips back to my GP100 and the impact moved rightwards that now I am only 2 to 3 inches off to the left.  The previous grip was Hoges and I've noticed that my fingers felt too long.  With the factory grips, my shooting finger feels just right to place the middle of my finger tip to pull.

6.  The Taurus feels just right.  The S&W629 makes my fingers feel a little longer but not as much as with the Hoges grips and seem to be OK.

Any thoughts on this?

How I clean the powder residue from the cylinder?  I use a rag impregnated with oil and also one of those fiber glass type dish washing sponges (green color) in the parts that the rag does not work well.

LJB

[sawfish]

Pick up a lead removal cloth made by Hoppes and others (about $5.00).  This will remove all of the burn marks from the end of the cylinder.  This cloth is to be used for stainless steel and chrome only.  It will remove the bluing from blued guns.  One other point on the recoil issue.  I have some older N Frame Smiths with the Target Hammer and Trigger that were once in vogue.

When shooting heavy loads, the top edge of the trigger would cut my trigger finger until it bled with only a few shots.  I tried different grips, and had the trigger narrowed with no success.  The remedy was to disassemble the gun and round off the sharp points on each side of the target trigger.  This is not a problem with the newer Smiths, narrow triggers, or if you do not have fat fingers.

[TScottO]

A wrag with oil will remove any powder residue I've seen from the cylinder flutes. For the cylinder face I haven't found any thing that works better than a red pencil eraser.

Be Safe,
Scott

[sawfish]

Thanks for the tip!  That is one use of a pencil eraser I had not heard of before.

[Jim n Iowa]

One thing that helped me with recoil of full load 44 mag at the range was using bike gloves. They are padded where you need it, open fingers, and inexpensive. They are available at Target, Wally World, and local bike stores.  After a while of shooting 44 mag loads it seems the body becomes familiar with the recoil and stops fighting it, at least that is my take on it.
Jim

[Flash]

The instruction manual that came with my Super Redhawk recomended the use of an ink eraser for repairing fine scratches and powder residue removal.