Author Topic: One More Day Left Till Iraq's First Free Election! (Read 906 times)

BamBams · « **on:** January 29, 2005, 01:26:05 AM »

Well guys, the enemies of freedom are doing everything in their power to subvert the elections. Lot's of bombings, killing innocent people, etc.

How do you think is going to go? Do you think most Iraq citizens are going to stay home? OR do you think they will risk their own safety to place their vote?

I am amazed, no, I am in awe, of these brave people who are willing to risk their lives for freedom, and the ability to govern themselves. Yes, AWE!

Here's an article about it:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145780,00.html

magooch · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2005, 03:24:22 AM »

When you mention the enemies of freedom, I hope you include in that list, many of the prominent members of the Dumbocrat Party in this country. Nothin would make people like Ted Kennedy, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pellosi, John Effing Kerry and their ilk, happier than to see this election in Iraq fail.

Kennedy might technically not be guilty of treason for his opposition to our countries policies, but he pushes the envelope. I believe he gives verbal aid, comfort and encouragement to the terrorists in Iraq and he should share the responsibility for much of the on-going insurgency. The man is simply a disgrace.

BamBams · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2005, 06:15:05 AM »

The thing these people all have in common is that they don't give a rat's rear end about anyone else's freedom, rights, or anything. All they care about is themselves, and how to gain more and more power and money. And this is not something I say from the arm chair either. I have family in NY and DC who have met (more than a handshake) many of these people. They will cater to whoever has enough money to buy their services. They have no conscious whatsoever.

FWiedner · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2005, 06:56:37 AM »

I'm trying to figure out what's "free" about these elections.

The process is being forced on them by a foreign power occupying their country, the candidates for election selected and approved puppets chosen by that foreign power, and the desired end result of the election is to attempt to force a type of government on them that their culture cannot possibly support.

The majority segment of the population is so opposed to this election that they are willing to kill anyone who tries to vote to weaken their hold on power even though "their" candidate would win the election!

Interesting.

It's my opinion that all hell is getting ready to break loose.

BamBams · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2005, 07:15:05 AM »

Quote

The majority segment of the population is so opposed to this election...

Fwed, can you support that statement with something? I'd like to know how you arrived at this.

FWiedner · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2005, 07:29:37 AM »

Quote from: BamBams

Quote
The majority segment of the population is so opposed to this election...

Fwed, can you support that statement with something? I'd like to know how you arrived at this.

Poor memory skills on my part.

In reasearching to verify the available facts in response to your question, I find that I was mistaken with regard to the question of who supports the elections and who does not.

The majority portion of the population (60%) appears to be Shiite, and the opposition that is trying to disrupt the process is Sunni.

Got them confused.

I'm not thoroughly convinced that it makes a difference.

BamBams · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2005, 07:44:56 AM »

Well I can understand why you wouldn't think it makes much difference considering your larger points, however, I think you may be overlooking some things as well.

Yes, the government is a puppet right now. It simply HAS to be for this to get off to a good start. Future governments probably won't be however. The people DO have the power to change it in the future, as well as any laws they can't live with.

I'm convinced that you just don't "see" the freedom yet, but if we live long enough, I think we'll see that freedom more and more. Conversely, the people there CAN see it - which is why so many are willing to die for it.

If you think we're controlling everything right now, you're pretty much correct, BUT it's better to be controlled by us than what they have been putting up with all these years. Soon we should back off and let them run their own country. I believe we'll do that as long as we elect the right people HERE.

Think of a child. Do you not force your will upon him so that he'll grow up right when he's on his own someday?

Leverdude · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2005, 07:50:51 AM »

I tend to agree with Fweid, at least in concept on this. While theres no questioning the honor of trying to help someone in need or IMO any question whether or not we needed to oust Saddam there are questions, or maybe a better word would be apprehensions about whether or not we should force them to become a democracy.
Our record on nation building isn't real impressive & IMO if the society in question isn't ready for it (democracy) it never takes. If they are ready they wouldnt need us to hold their hands.
If it were a "free" election we would be sitting home watching it not sitting in the desert running it.

My prediction is alot of people are gong to die & if someone does live to be elected his term will be short, if he's lucky he'd be exiled but I think they'll kill him & then we can burn up a few more hundred million dollars bombing the ones responsible so theyre brothers & cousins can kill more of us.

Its my opinion that we should kill Saddam & let them sort it out themselves, if they cant do it right & become a threat again we can fix them again. Cant cost more than just staying there 24/7 for years on end.

I'm sorry but I dont think its our responsability to rebuild a country or restaff a Gov't every time we go to war. Hell if they were smart every poor country in the world would attack us so we could rebuild their country & gov't with our money & men.

BamBams · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2005, 07:59:44 AM »

I can definitely see both sides of this. Rather than try to hammer out every detail, all I am going to say is:

Something inside me says that, oh, in about another 50-100 years, G.W is going to be lauded as the great man who cut the shackles from the middle east and did more the bring peace to this world than anyone else has before him.

Leverdude · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2005, 08:03:29 AM »

BammBamm makes some good points but the child in question is one of the oldest societies on earth. Granted it hasn't been a single political entitie the whole time but its the cradle of civilazation.
They have been killing one another over there for several millenium & to think they will stop because the USA, who's society they despise, seems rediculous. The religious mullahs or whatever will get these guys to fight the new gov't harder than ever simply because it came from us.
Now, if they were to grow up, as a nation or society, enuff to see the real benefits of democracy the majority would supress the violent minority & become democratic by evolution & it might stick. Blood would be shed but thats how it always is. If it turns out that the majority supports the mullahs then n a way they have elected what they want.
My grandfather usta say "you get what you pay for in this life & I'm not talking money either"
For this to work they need to fight it out among themselves & let the cards fall where they may.

Leverdude · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2005, 08:05:44 AM »

Quote from: BamBams

I can definitely see both sides of this. Rather than try to hammer out every detail, all I am going to say is:

Something inside me says that, oh, in about another 50-100 years, G.W is going to be lauded as the great man who cut the shackles from the middle east and did more the bring peace to this world than anyone else has before him.

You may well be right Sir, & I hope you are. :grin:
I feel as well that G. Bush will be rembered as a great man but dont see it hingeing on Iraqs becoming a democracy.

BamBams · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2005, 08:13:36 AM »

Well, it took Great Britain 2000 years to figure out how to get hot and cold water to come for the same faucet. *laugh*

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2005, 10:59:12 AM »

Quote from: Leverdude

I tend to agree with Fweid, at least in concept on this.
...

If it were a "free" election we would be sitting home watching it not sitting in the desert running it.

My prediction is alot of people are gong to die & if someone does live to be elected his term will be short
...

Its my opinion that we should kill Saddam & let them sort it out themselves, if they cant do it right & become a threat again we can fix them again. Cant cost more than just staying there 24/7 for years on end.

Amen, Brother, amen!!!

It cost 270 American lives from the start of the invasion to end of "major combat operations". It's cost four times that many to stay there and screw things up worse.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2005, 11:05:14 AM »

Quote from: BamBams

I can definitely see both sides of this. Rather than try to hammer out every detail, all I am going to say is:

Something inside me says that, oh, in about another 50-100 years, G.W is going to be lauded as the great man who cut the shackles from the middle east and did more the bring peace to this world than anyone else has before him.

Something inside me says that if we last another hundred years, the history books will be asking of Bush 43, "How did we survive this clown?"

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2005, 11:32:11 AM »

As much as it pains me I once again have to find myself more in agreement than disagreement with Fweid on this one. Yer right.

Those people do not want free elections and they do not want demorcracy. They want to kill everyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do. They are and always have been tribal. If you're not of their trible they have absolute no use for you and would rather kill you than let you live. They have no business having a country. Each tribe should be allocated some traditional tribal land and let it go at that. Short of that it will always be tribal warfare with each trible trying to kill off the rest to take over the entire country.

They do not have a clue what freedom is or how to deal fairly with each other and don't want to learn.

I think our only mistake in this manner is even trying to bring about free elections. We got rid of Saddam. We should then have gotten out and let the people deal with it from there. If we felt the way they dealth with it was such that our country was in danger then we should have again stepped in to fix that.

Muslims in general are NOT and never will be friends to the US or our interests. To think they are or will be is kidding yourself. The ONLY thing they understand or respect is force. Kindness is viewed as weakness. We need to decide if we can accept what they are doing or we can't. If we can we need to leave them the heck alone. If we can't we need to wipe them out and move on. It's that simple in my mind.

powderman · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2005, 03:59:57 PM »

To begin with, I truly believe that if we don't fight these Godless scum over there, that eventually we would have to fight them here. There are many good points being made here by several people. It's true that they don't know what freedom is, but I believe there isn't a person on earth that doesn't at least dream about it. I hope the voter turnout is high, but believe the Godless ones will murder as many freedom seekers as they can. Many will not attempt to vote because they are afraid. The scum doing the killing serve no useful purpose on this earth and deserve death, they still support saddam, one of the worst butchers in history. They serve only satan, and should be destroyed.
We are not fighting rational human beings. They are a Godless lot that put no value on human life, ours, theirs, or even their children. I see islam as more of a cult than a religion. They put their faith in a warlord named mohamed and follow his teachings instead of Jesus Christ. From birth they teach hatred, violence, murder, and intolerance to ALL non muslims.
Tomorrow there will be more bombings and murders of their countrymen and women, but many thousands will vote. I wish them well. May God protect the good people that are there. POWDERMAN.

jh45gun · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2005, 05:19:09 PM »

Yea I support GW but the longer we stay I think the more problems we have. To be honest folks Muslums confuse the crap out of me. On one hand many of them call us infidels and want to kill us. On the other hand we have a bunch living here in this land and are seeming to adjust or are they just trying to assimulate us? It makes me wonder. I would much rather see us fight them over there than here like Charlie says. Funny thing is these folks will never give up their guns yet they have the UN trying to disarm us ever think why?

:x :x :x Makes you wonder and I guess I do not have to wonder very far. Jim

BamBams · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2005, 06:04:05 PM »

You know what happens if you disgrace your family in Islam? Like, say, for instance you are a girl and change your mind about marrying the guy that your family picked out for you - which could, under Islamic law, be your first cousin. Simple - your own family kills you. Them's the rules. I don't think most Islamic people are Islamic by choice. I think they are forced into it.

powderman · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2005, 04:02:07 AM »

BAMBAMS. I agree Sir. To live over there, islam is not a choice, it's a requirement. POWDERMAN.

magooch · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2005, 05:18:03 AM »

Fellas--it isn't that difficult or complicated. Saddam had to be taken out--period and having done that, Iraq has to be insulated from becoming a haven for terrorists. We fail in this task and it will come back to bite us over and over.

Now that said, I still would have preferred that we would have taken Saddam out along with several million of his comrads, but that might not have improved out popularity in the world. Any way you slice it, our President was strong enough, bold enough and wise enough to lead and not sit around and vacillate about it like his predacessor (Clinton) or his would be successor (sKerry).

The Middle East (fundamental Muslims) is going to be a thorn in our butts for decades to come and short of taking out entire populations of some of those countries there really isn't any easy, no-risk solutions. I believe the actions that George Bush has taken, has at the very least, put the bastards on notice that we will not just sit here and lob the occasional missile.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2005, 10:19:05 AM »

Well, today was the day folks. Didn't hear of a bomb killing every single voter or a single militant. I sure hope there wasn't. If the elections prevail, we might be winning this God forsaken war.

powderman · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2005, 11:14:57 AM »

MAGOOCH. Agreed Sir. POWDERMAN. :-) :-) :-) :-)

ironglow · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2005, 11:41:51 AM »

Well; election day has come and gone....some disruptions, some deaths (painfully)
Millions of people voted for THEIR CHOICE for the first time in their lives (including women) .
Did you see the joy on their faces ...how they held their stained fingers up to display...?

Looks like 60-70% of the eligibles voted, in spite of explosions, death threats and threats of reprisals....

Sure looks like they could give many of OUR fellow citizens lessons on how to appreciate the RIGHT to vote...!!!

Neil Cavuto talked with a corporal that was horribly burned during the drive on Baghdad....and he affirmed what a wonderful day it is...

Over here, we have the two sides...still going at it..

A) Led by the President,Secy of State and various Senators and most of us here at GB's forum..... optimism and hope for a brighter, safer, more free future for all mankind...

B) The "nattering nabobs of negativity", led by the likes of Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, M. Moore and others including a few right here on GB's forum.... finding nothing but hopelessness and despair, powerless mumbling....those types will never truly accomplish anything of value..!!

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2005, 01:20:21 PM »

Quote from: ironglow

A) Led by the President,Secy of State and various Senators and most of us here at GB's forum..... optimism and hope for a brighter, safer, more free future for all mankind...

B) The "nattering nabobs of negativity", led by the likes of Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, M. Moore and others including a few right here on GB's forum.... finding nothing but hopelessness and despair, powerless mumbling....those types will never truly accomplish anything of value..!!

An optimistic gambler is soon a broke one.

Realism is often confused with negativity by those who are not realistic.