Author Topic: Help me out guys, toss me a bone... (Read 4010 times)

Graybeard · « **on:** January 31, 2005, 05:05:11 AM »

After sleeping on it I think this monster I've created STINKS.

I'm not sure it's not a self dooming creation that no one will be able to live with. I dunno if a saint could stay 100% within it and that's really what is required of those who's names are on the list.

I've received some wise council from my advisory staff and am thinking there has to be a BETTER WAY. Help me find it.

Toss me some suggestions here. Let's see if we can formulate a better plan that all can actually live with that still accomplishes the original goal of ending the flame war and personal attacks.

I'm drowning here guys, toss me a line.

BamBams · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2005, 05:12:32 AM »

I'm replying to this in a PM.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2005, 06:04:14 AM »

I'm here almost every day and I haven't seen many flames. In fact, this is one of the cleaner gun forums out there.

jh45gun · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2005, 06:23:18 AM »

Don't know what to tell you GB. I guess if they want to stay they will behave if not they will go. A forum I go to and moderate has a "WARNING BAR" if the bar fills up you are gone. We have a good group there and the bar never seems to get used but it may be a idea. Jim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2005, 06:56:40 AM »

My PM is on it's way to you Boss...

Mac

Dali Llama · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2005, 07:16:23 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

After sleeping on it I think this monster I've created STINKS.

I'm not sure it's not a self dooming creation that no one will be able to live with. I dunno if a saint could stay 100% within it and that's really what is required of those who's names are on the list.

I've received some wise council from my advisory staff and am thinking there has to be a BETTER WAY. Help me find it.

Toss me some suggestions here. Let's see if we can formulate a better plan that all can actually live with that still accomplishes the original goal of ending the flame war and personal attacks.

I'm drowning here guys, toss me a line.

Dali Llama say he prefer be upfront and have his thoughts for Graybeard read by all, rather than use PM. Dali say that if goal be to have family friendly forum, perhaps Graybeard should disallow pornography and cursing. To keep forum from becoming another Ebay, perhaps advertising and sales of merchandise should not be allowed between posters. Regarding so-called "flame wars" between parties, why not allow them if they do not include foul langauge? Dali say that if such interchanges be permitted, "problem" will take care of itself, as those who cannot stand heat will get out of the kitchen.

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2005, 07:18:38 AM »

GB,

Here's how Gunboards.com handles it. They have a forum called the Minefield. It opens with this warning:

Quote

This is the minefield - a totally unmoderated board that allows you to sound off about anything or everything. Gunboards.com distants itself from this board and anything stated on the board. Gunboards is not responsible for ANY postings made here. This is a minefield and if you step on a mine, do not blame us. If you are under 18 then do not enter. This board is WILD at times and can be harsh. You have been warned and if you enter then you accept these warnings. We will not listen to complaints about postings.

I'm not sure that approach fits this board, but it's an idea to discuss.

Discussions around the Potbellied Stove should be civil. But a forum called "The Outhouse" or perhaps "The Woodshed" could have a similar format to the Gunboards Minefield.

By the way when flame topics start up on Gunboards in the various forums the moderators can and do move them to the Minefield.

Just a thought.

FWiedner · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2005, 07:24:07 AM »

Mr. Graybeard, I believe that you have made your concerns and your intended response to those concerns quite plain.

The only potential hitch in the plan that I can devine is that there seems to be no room for error, whatsoever.

I believe that as with all proposed zero tolerance schema, there needs to be some room for reasonable interpretation and human judgement.

Your policies are as fair as they get, Sir, but a zero tolerance policy needs a human to look at the "case by case" in order to be made operationally "fair".

Just my thoughts.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2005, 07:38:07 AM »

I don't think on this Family Orientated site that there should be any forum that allows a hands off approach or 18+ only forum..I don't want my kids to have access to it...and it sure as heck wouldn't look good to anyone else coming here expecting a Family site...there are way to many other forums out there if one wishes to be involved in that type of content....as to selling things between forum members...we have a 2 classified sections for that...and they should be utilized for that...

Mac

mag41vance · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2005, 07:48:10 AM »

I have not contributed much to this section at GB because of some of the nonsense you have mentioned. It seems as if even the best complexion gets a zit every now and then, and cleansing is required to eliminate the problem.
"Round The 'Ole Pot-Bellied Stove" is one forum I don't pay much attention to" which keeps me from putting up with the ridiculous. It has become a refuge for many just trying to keep tabs on each other.
I have learned that not responding to the instigators of such tripe is the best way for me. It took me a while to learn that.

GB,
You should do what the Spirit leads you to do. I will frequent forums here at Graybeards where respect and help seems to be the way.

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2005, 07:55:32 AM »

Graybeard--How about all the members get 3 or 5 stars in their author column. If they break the rules they lose 1 star. They lose 1 star for each violation. If they lose 3 or 5 whatever the number they started with they get deactivated for a month. If they only have lost one star they can get it back in 30 days if they behave themselves. I don't know if there is any way to make this system work or not. Just a suggestion.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2005, 07:57:46 AM »

Quote from: mag41vance

I have learned that not responding to the instigators of such tripe is the best way for me. It took me a while to learn that.

That be very similar to what Dali trying to say, respond Dali Llama. Dali say he always wonder what gun to head or other threat actually MAKE posters read, or especially reply to, posts and posters they do not like??? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? Dali say he liken it to remote control for television: do not view or respond to those posts/posters you do not like, but expect a response in kind if you do. Dali say perhaps those who cannot stand heat should get out of kitchen.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2005, 08:04:56 AM »

Quote from: Double D

GB,

Here's how Gunboards.com handles it. They have a forum called the Minefield. It opens with this warning:
Quote
This is the minefield - a totally unmoderated board that allows you to sound off about anything or everything. Gunboards.com distants itself from this board and anything stated on the board. Gunboards is not responsible for ANY postings made here. This is a minefield and if you step on a mine, do not blame us. If you are under 18 then do not enter. This board is WILD at times and can be harsh. You have been warned and if you enter then you accept these warnings. We will not listen to complaints about postings.

Dali Llama say he think this be good approach, with possible additional restrictions on sales, pornography, foul language and threats of physical violence.

whodowl · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2005, 08:48:48 AM »

Man, I love this web site.........just like it is.

powderman · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2005, 09:18:11 AM »

Since I can't comment on a certain persons posts, and already avoid posts started by that person, that leaves little, or basicly NO threads I could comment on. Guess I need to find another home. POWDERMAN.

BamBams · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2005, 09:20:35 AM »

Naaa......stick around awhile. Something is going to change.....I can feel it in the breeze..........ahhhhhhhhhh

jh45gun · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2005, 09:54:53 AM »

Quote from: powderman

Since I can't comment on a certain persons posts, and already avoid posts started by that person, that leaves little, or basicly NO threads I could comment on. Guess I need to find another home. POWDERMAN.

Do not get excited Charlie I bet things are not settled yet wait until they are! Jim

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2005, 10:09:33 AM »

Some good thoughts tossed out here and some let's say not so fitting ones.

As long as I am in control here there will never ever be a forum or any portion of the site not suitable for ALL family members in a gun loving Christian home. You have my promise on that.

Dali sales between members here are restricted to the various Classifieds forums and I'd hate to drop those because I use them to buy and occasionall sell items myself. With very limited exceptions sales, trades and want to buy threads are allowed ONLY on those Classifieds Forums. There are some very specific exceptions but none are on the NEF or Marlin forums. Even a hint of porn will get a member PERMANENTLY kicked off this site. Has always been the rule since day one. Equally foul language has never been an option open to GBO members on these forums. Never will be either. Not while I'm in charge.

Matt has a separate project he has been working on some while regarding a new set of Graybeard Outdoors Terms of Use Policy and Copyright information. I think it likely will be ready to publish today or tomorrow. It lists the full set of RULES we all must abide by.

I'd really like to move the sitution under those and only those guidelines as soon as possible. So don't run off Powderman, we'll restore order and reason here very soon.

Dali we're not going to have a situation at GBO where the aggreived party has strike back priviledges. That ended with grade school. If we can't deal with each other as adults then some of us aren't gonna be here to deal with anyone.

I recognize in this forum a somewhat dual role it is serving. One it is the general catch all and off topic area for the Marlin folks. But it's also serving very effectively as a news headlines area. I'm wondering tho if that latter function wouldn't better serve the entire GBO site if more open to all the members. Locked away in the Pot Belly Stove forum I suspect no one not a member of the Marlin community here ever sees these. I think that's a shame as I think they are a worthwhile thing and I get to read lots of good stuff in them I'd likely not otherwise see.

Fred your point is well taken and is the primary cause of my concern over what I've now set in motion. It's not an occasional slip I'm as concerned about as a pattern of improper behavior. Dealing with it fairly is a concern to me.

On the idea of a system to add or take away stars or a quota of points the software we use doesn't support it. No way I'm getting into a manual record keeping program on nearly 12,000 members. Ain't happening. :eek:

Dali your point that no one is forced to read is valid. I agree. BUT along with it comes an obligation that if you do read and don't like what you read you do not lash out at the person who wrote it. EVEN if you feel they lashed out at you. That's what me and the Moderators are for. We'll handle it not the member.

NYH1 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2005, 10:22:52 AM »

Quote from: mag41vance

I have not contributed much to this section at GB because of some of the nonsense you have mentioned. It seems as if even the best complexion gets a zit every now and then, and cleansing is required to eliminate the problem.
"Round The 'Ole Pot-Bellied Stove" is one forum I don't pay much attention to" which keeps me from putting up with the ridiculous. It has become a refuge for many just trying to keep tabs on each other.
I have learned that not responding to the instigators of such tripe is the best way for me. It took me a while to learn that.

GB,
You should do what the Spirit leads you to do. I will frequent forums here at Graybeards where respect and help seems to be the way.

I pretty much agree with "mag41vance" on this ! I spend more time on GBO's then I ever have, just not on this forum !

clodbuster · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2005, 12:05:45 PM »

If I could only look at one forum, it would be this one and I would hate to see the posters involved in the "discussions" go away. They add the spice I like.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2005, 12:52:32 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Dali your point that no one is forced to read is valid. I agree. BUT along with it comes an obligation that if you do read and don't like what you read you do not lash out at the person who wrote it. EVEN if you feel they lashed out at you. That's what me and the Moderators are for. We'll handle it not the member.

Dali Llama say that it be major "paradigm change" related to this that he propose. Dali say what wrong with allowing one who apparently unable to refrain from reading certain posts and "don't like what you read" to "lash out," as long as it do not include foul language, pornography, threats of physical violence or other objectionable content? :? Dali say that it would save Graybeard and moderators considerable time, while not hurting anyone. What be downside, inquire Dali? :?

Dali Llama · « **Reply #21 on:** January 31, 2005, 12:58:21 PM »

Quote from: BUGEYE

I'm here almost every day and I haven't seen many flames. In fact, this is one of the cleaner gun forums out there.

Dali Llama say he concur, and he not sure such a big problem even exist. :?

longwinters · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2005, 01:07:32 PM »

I think when you cross (or move) the line in one forum it will infect the other forums as well. If a person wants to rant at someone or use language or tactics that have not been allowed on this site perhaps a better place to go would be the one GB found the lion hunting video on. Gee, THERE IS a bunch of people I would like to hang around with on my spare time :twisted: . I hear enough crap everywhere else in the world, I don't want it here as well. Many things start out great and then over time disintegrate because people want to keep lowering the standard.

Long

Dali Llama · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2005, 01:13:22 PM »

Quote from: longwinters

Many things start out great and then over time disintegrate because people want to keep lowering the standard.

Dali Llama say he suppose it be rather critical how one operationally define "lowering the standard." :-)

Graybeard · « **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2005, 01:14:24 PM »

Quote

Dali Llama say that it be major "paradigm change" related to this that he propose. Dali say what wrong with allowing one who apparently unable to refrain from reading certain posts and "don't like what you read" to "lash out," as long as it do not include foul language, pornography, threats of physical violence or other objectionable content? Dali say that it would save Graybeard and moderators considerable time, while not hurting anyone. What be downside, inquire Dali?

Your "lashing out" is what I call making a personal attack. Don't care if you were attacked first. It ain't gonna happen here. It's NOT self defense if you were attacked using words on a computer screen so you have no right to defend yourself in that manner.

I see it as leading to a break down of the rules and chaos. It ain't gonna happen here and folks who wanna be here best understand that real clearly. This has ALWAYS been and always will be GBO policy.

BTW the update of our Terms of Use Ageement is nearing finalization. I just made my last proof of it and Matt will be publishing it soon. It covers everything needed here and elsewhere on the site.

Dali Llama · « **Reply #25 on:** January 31, 2005, 01:20:09 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Quote
Dali Llama say that it be major "paradigm change" related to this that he propose. Dali say what wrong with allowing one who apparently unable to refrain from reading certain posts and "don't like what you read" to "lash out," as long as it do not include foul language, pornography, threats of physical violence or other objectionable content? Dali say that it would save Graybeard and moderators considerable time, while not hurting anyone. What be downside, inquire Dali?

I see it as leading to a break down of the rules and chaos.

Dali Llama say that what Graybeard see as "break down of the rules and chaos" others may see as commentary no one forced to read and reason for one to get out of kitchen if he/she do not like the heat. Dali say, however, that this forum belong to Graybeard and he call the shots hereabouts. :grin:

ironglow · « **Reply #26 on:** January 31, 2005, 01:25:56 PM »

I would favor as GB said ...no foul language or anything else that would not be acceptable in a decent Christian home...
I don't mind disagreement...so long as we're not disagreeable about it..
No genuine ridicule, no foul language or disparaging remarks about another's race, gender, ethnicity...
I don't mind politics and religion being discussed so long as it is in an enlightened, non cursing manner...
Or choice of pastimes...Heaven knows, we hunters really catch it for our choosing to hunt...
Perhaps WE as posters could somewhat (politely) police the forums...
For instance,; when someone is carrying on a bit too much, we can say something like:

" Ok,...Ok....Mr ----, you have pretty well stated your case...let's move on to something else, for the sake of the site..."

BamBams · « **Reply #27 on:** January 31, 2005, 01:33:58 PM »

"Help me out guys, toss me a bone..."

longwinters · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2005, 02:36:34 PM »

The rules are posted. Pretty plain. . . pretty simple. And I especially like the fact that it is not just the "letter of the law" but also the "spirit of the law" that is going to be inforced. Since we have no Supreme Court Justices to reinterpret things it should be smooth sailing.

Long

-Shaggy- · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2005, 03:05:12 PM »

Just go with your original plan. You may not like it, but you should realize it is the only way to do what you want to do. Heck, this is only my third post here and I am already on " the list" ( which I see has gone from eight names to seven). I won't comment on what I think of being put on "the list", because that would only get me banned. I can live with that.The plan you set up will take care of your problem soon, maybe not the way you would like, but you can't always get what you want. Anyone that gets thrown out only has themself to blame at this point.