Time To Re-write The Bible.......again!

[ironglow]

Bam bams ;
   Brett gave you the "straight dope" on your need for and way of attaining salvation..
 
  He even gave you what we call "the sinner's prayer", through which you accept the offer Jesus gives you to be " born again"... complete that prayer with a sincere, repentant heart and you're saved..

   Pedo baptism (baptism of babies) is accepted by some...but a baby really cannot understand what is going on!
   I would rather refer to it as " believer's baptism ". Believer's baptism is for one who has learned just who Jesus is, what he did and what He wants us to do...and we have prayed the sinner's prayer with a sincere heart.

   Baptism is a sign of submission to Christ..right to do, but not absolutely necessary for salvation..

   The thief on the cross beside Jesus was apparently never baptised...but he was with Jesus in paradise that very day!

[BamBams]

I'm very interested in doing this bible study.  I'd like to do it here.  I think we'd have a great time.  What do you think?

I've been really busy setting up my Internet Radio Station so this is the first chance I've had to reply. *smiles*

[powderman]

BAMBAMS. An excellent place to discuss Gods plan for all. They are giving you the straight dope, listen to them. They are much more articulate than I, but I agree with them.  POWDERMAN.

[williamlayton]

SAY there Bams-
what is this radio internet you talking about ?
Blessings
PS-- nobody every has overcome sinning, well, cept for the LORD. As we all grow we get better  but, well--I can go days without consciously sinning and then some days I go hours. It is not as frustrating as it seems, well it is infuriating to me, however, there is a liberty with the Lord--not a liberty too sin, but to grow, without feelings of fear that the Lord is ready to knock you down at every turn.
Blessings

[ironglow]

William;
   Amen to that !

[Brett]

Okay then sounds like maybe we should give it a shot.  I've never done anything like this on a web forum before so I'm not quite sure how to organize it. So I'm open to any suggestions you guys have.

I thought we could use Rick Warren's book The Purpose Driven Life as a guide.  That way we can keep some order to the discussion and not be bouncing all over the place.  For anyone not familiar with Rick, he is founding pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, one of the largest and best known churches in the United States.  The Purpose Driven Life is layed out as a 40 day study that ultimately answers the question we have all asked at one time or another: What on earth am I here for?  It is non-denominational and based wholly on the Bible. For more information on the book you can go to the following link: http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/thebook.aspx

A group of us from my church did a study using it last winter and I can tell you it was great. We read a chapter a week on our own and then met on Sunday evening to discuss what we had read.  We all got so much out of it that we are beginning a new study using his earlier book The Purpose Driven Church this year.

If we decide to proceed with a Bible study do you think we should run it by GB?  Maybe even ask GB set up a temporary forum specifically for the study?  That way anyone interested in participating would not have to hunt for the string all the time.  

Please let me hear your thoughts. - Brett


 24Think of ways to encourage one another to outbursts of love and good deeds. 25  And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage and warn each other, especially now that the day of his coming back again is drawing near. - Hebrews 10:24,25

[unspellable]

If you stand around at a drop zone and watch the sky divers for a few weeks you will come to "believe" that parachutes work.  If you then decide to try it yourself you have "faith" that parachutes work.

In other words the real nitty gritty is what you do with that belief.  So yes, Satan "believes" in God, Christ, and all the rest, but he's off on his own trip, not acting on that belief.

If this sort of discussion is to be a regular thing perhaps there should be a seperate forum for it on Graybeard rather than staying in this one which is menat to be more general purpose.

[Brett]

BamBams,

I Found a couple of verses I thought might be reassuring & comforting.


 38  Â“Brothers, listen! In this man Jesus there is forgiveness for your sins. 39Everyone who believes in him is freed from all guilt and declared right with God—something the Jewish law could never do. - Acts 13:38,39

Treat guilt like road signs.  You use road signs to stay on the right course but you don't take them with you as you go down the road.  Same way with guilt.  Alow it to show you when you are getting of course but don't carry it with you as you travel the road toward heaven. It will only slow you down.

Becoming like Christ is a process that takes time.

11  He (Christ) is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12  Their responsibility is to equip GodÂ’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ, 13until we come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of GodÂ’s Son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord, measuring up to the full stature of Christ. - Ephesians 4:11 - 13

In these versus it is obvious that Christ expects a learning & growing process to  take place in our Christian lives or there would not be a need for His gifts of pastors and teachers.

 18  And all of us have had that veil removed so that we can be mirrors that brightly reflectÂŁ the glory of the Lord. And as the Spirit of the Lord works within us, we become more and more like him and reflect his glory even more. - 2 Corinthians 3:18

I've emphasized the last part of this verse that again indicates that the  process of becoming like Christ takes place over time when we allow the Holy spirit to work in us.

We have all heard the old saying that life is a journey, it is just as true about a Christian life.  So hang in there BamBams things might get bumpy at times but the trip is well worth it.

[BamBams]

Okay, I'll PM GB and see what he thinks about a Bible Study forum.  I can assure you one thing though - if he makes such a forum, it will definitely need a moderator.  Forums like that seem to attract the worst troublemakers in my experience.

William:  The Internet Radio station works like Real Player, or Windows Media Player.  It allows you to listen to music played "live" over the Internet.  I've got so much music, that I thought I'd share it with the world.

Basically, you just download the program, select which radio station you want to hear, and in comes the music.  It's really not "radio," rather it's "streaming audio" over the Internet.

My station is called "Just Jazz" because that's all I'm broadcasting - from classic to modern in all jazz genres.

Here's a link to the software if you're interested:

http://www.streamerp2p.com/

[BamBams]

Brett:

What you posted makes perfect sense to me.  I've been believing that "salvation" is guaranteed if you ask for it.  Having said that, I've also been believing that "sanctification" of the soul is more of an ongoing process that GOD works out in a person over time as he sees fit, but he doesn't force it on them.  Which is precisely why I've quit trying to be "good" so to speak.  If I could be "good" enough to please God, then what would Christ be dying for?  Can you understand what I'm saying?

[Brett]

Brett:

What you posted makes perfect sense to me.  I've been believing that "salvation" is guaranteed if you ask for it.  Having said that, I've also been believing that "sanctification" of the soul is more of an ongoing process that GOD works out in a person over time as he sees fit, but he doesn't force it on them.  Which is precisely why I've quit trying to be "good" so to speak.  If I could be "good" enough to please God, then what would Christ be dying for?  Can you understand what I'm saying?

Don't give up on trying to be good. It opens the door so that God can bless you.  I know from experience that He blesses me when I try my best, even if I stumble from time to time.

Think of it this way BamBams you probably will never play like Charlie Parker but that does not mean you should give up playing.
 
If we get the go ahead from GB and decide to use the book we need set a start date so every one has a chance to get a copy it.

Let's hear from the rest of you who are interested. Thanks.

[BamBams]

I didn't mean to imply that I don't try to be good, but rather I've quit trying to be "good enough."  Even though I did say that.  *smiles*  Make better sense now?  

I think "goodness" - if there is such a thing, is something which comes from inside the soul, instead of something which relates to perfect behavior.  I see Christians and Churches which attempt to regulate people's behavior.  I think these are matters between a person and God.

[williamlayton]

I will certainly go for it. I might suggest that a forum spot is available down under second amendments and political thoughts.
I think some BROAD rules should be painted.
I make the following suggestions:
Refrain from Denominational agenda and basis-make clear statements without advising a need to see it my way. We will be talking with folks from denominational venues that are Calvinistic, Armenian, Oneness, Spirit filled, Hyper-calvinistic, Catholic (Roman and Orthodox) and others.
If we could keep the matter strictly to Jesus Christ, his atonement, His salvation---Or our main context is salvation thru grace--I think we are in better stead with others than if we go off chasing denominational thoughts.
Remember folks---ALL of us see thru a glass darkly--and I can not say thus sayeth the Lord on some things I may believe.
Folks we are entering a very Holy place in this discussion and we have no need to intimidate or scare a young or non-believer. Besides, those discussions never bring forth fruit.
Blessings

[BamBams]

Okay, GB says that if we want the forum, we have to make it a "poll" in the "Request A Forum" forum.  He reviews this forum from time to time to assess interest.

Also, he says he feels "lousy" today, so if ya feel like praying.

So, anybody wanna make a "poll" down there?  Brett?

This WAS your idea!  *smiles*  -- which is why you and William should moderate it also.  

[williamlayton]

You have need to pray about this fore ya put a crochity ol Texan with too much western in him as moderator of anything more important than latrine duty.
Blessings

[unspellable]

I don't think you have to rule out discussions of denominational differences so long as flame throwers are left at the door and the denominational differences are viewed as just that, not major issues of salvation.  I come from a Calvinist direction but I manage to get along with the Lutherans.  (In fact I was once asked to lead a Lutheran Bible study in spite of saying, "What! You want a rank Calvinist like me to lead a LUTHERAN Bible study?"  It was a unanimous yes vote.

That said, there are such things as Christian Cults, meaning a counterfeit or falsely labled as Christian denomination.  I would say they should be recognized as such, but any one coming from that direction should still be just as welcome as a doubter or unbeliever and we still must leave the flame throwers at the door.

[Graybeard]

I generally like to see 8 to 12 yes votes in a POLL to establish a new forum. That is not proof it will have enough activitity to sustain itself but less votes and it's almost certain not to be sustainable. For sure I expect Moderator volunteers before opening new forums these days.

[Brett]

Yikes  :eek: I had originally invissioned a one on one Bible study/prayer partner sort of thing BamBams.  Now we have folks talking about doing some kind of cybor Bible study. This seems to be taking on a life of it's own. I know the Lord works in mysterious ways and I certainly do not want to stifle the Holy Spirit.  Well if it is the Holy Spirit working here then I'm sure we'll get the 8 to 12 affirmative votes that GB likes to see before creating a new forum.  If this does get of the ground [and since this was my idea. (?)]  I 'll agree to be a moderator if williamlayton or unspellable will agree to comoderate.  


I agree with willaimlayton, if we do this as a open forum discussion I think that we will need to set up some boundaries.  I also believe it best to avoid placing any emphasis on denominational differences.  Getting charged up over issues like how, when or if one needs to be baptised or how or when we celebrate Holy Communion, etc. is nothing more than Satan working to divide the body of Christ to render us less effective in doing God's work IMHO.

That said, I think we need to use something as a study guide so that there is an orderly flow to the conversation and we are not bouncing all over the place like ball bearings dropped on a concrete floor.  Not wanting to sound like a broken record but I highly recommend The Purpose Driven Life. Partly because it is nondenominational and because it gives us a time frame of 40 days to work within but mostly because it really spoke to my heart and I think it would all of you as well.

In any case before I post a POLL I think we need to make a discission about the ground rules and what we will use as a study guide. So lets hear from you.

[powderman]

I see no reason for a special forum for this. On here there may be some folks that will read and learn that probably would not go to a religious forum. The goal would be to reach and educate as many folks as can be reached, I believe that can best be done right here. I will gladly participate, but there are some folks here that are much better at getting the points accross. Yes on the discussion, NO to a new forum. Those that don't want to see, read, or are offended, please use your scroll and bypass this thread. POWDERMAN.      :grin:  :grin:    

[BamBams]

I am inclined to agree with powderman, but for different reasons.  My biggest reason is to spare GB from more work and aggravation.  My second reason is that we are all right here already, and there's nothing we're going to discuss that wouldn't be appropriate.  Of course, we'll probably wind up with a very long thread, but that's not an issue is it?

As far as rules.  I don't see a need for any rules at all.  We are all adults.  Adults agree and disagree, but as long as they remain respectful, they can discuss ANYTHING in a civilized fashion.

My advice to all participants would be simply this:  If you tend to become emotional or angry regarding points of religious dogma, then you probably ought to either stay out of this discussion, or go on Prozac. As an example:  I'll be the first to say that I wholeheartedly believe that infant baptism is nothing more than a complete waste of time resulting in a wet kid.  Now if that bothered or offended you to the point where you cannot let me have my own opinion, or reply courteously and respectfully, then you're probably not psychologically ready for an online discussion regarding religious issues. *laugh* but serious.

Anyway, how much does this book cost?

[williamlayton]

It would be an honor to moderate these discussions.
I would insist on some very strict guidelines.
Each that wishes to teach a bible study- start the study that the Lord leads you to teach. Teach it in a foum topic of its very own, set apart for the study thought that you wish to lead. Moderate your own class. Do not allow the topic to be lead down paths that detract from the topic. Brett wants to teach from "A purpose driven church"--let him do so. Another wishes to teach on another topic, let's say, "Christ as revealed in the Old Testament", let him do so. We can all read and join in on each topic, and gain from it.
If one wants to teach doctrine let him do so under another topic clearly defining the intent of the study. These topics are likely to draw the most heat, and the Lord does not gain from them, but that teacher should have the responsibility of keeping it on topic and have the good sense to keep it under control.
Folks I like and enjoy Apologetics more than most. Most folks do not have the temprement to enguage in such discussions, keep it on track and impersonal. If you can't, do not even attempt to join in, it will cause you much embarassment.
There are those in this town that have a gift for teaching, I am not one of those folks, I have a gift of discernment, which I would like to give to someone else but the Holy Spirit will not allow that.
I leave this up too you folks and well, ol GB to come to final conclusions.
I suggest Brett lead it off and let others fall in as they will.
Blessings

[Brett]

Okay, sounds like we stay in Round the 'Ole Pot-Bellied Stove and just start a new string under the appropriate heading.  

The Cover price on The Purpose Driven Life is $19.99 but I believe you can still get it at Sam's Clubs and some of the other discount chain book stores for around $16.00.   Another option is to check at the public library.

When do you want to kick this off?  I think something like two weeks from Friday might be good that would give us time to do some promotion and give folks to locate a copy of the book. I will start a new string announcing our intent and inviting folks to join us.

[Graybeard]

Setting up a forum takes about two minutes. So that's not a concern.

I see both pro and con of having a separate forum and leaving it here. If you want no one from outside your current group to participate then leaving it here is a way to omit others. If you want the widest possible participation it might be better to have a separate forum.

If you're going to have a single thread and all discussion take place on it then leaving it here is also fine. If you anticipate a separate thread for each topic I think you're going to have to do it in a separate forum. I see it in time taking over all the space on this one or getting totally lost in the other threads one or the other.

It matters not to me really. To set up a new forum I only wish to know there is enough interest to justify it. As long as there is activity there I have no problems with a new forum.

As to rules I think if you follow the rules of the site as set forth in the Terms of Use agreement you should do fine. If you don't follow them you're gonna be in trouble anyway.

[powderman]

This is going to be good, but no matter the subject, there will be times that they will take off on a tangent because of a real serious question. Being too strict in this sense will ruin the discussion.
As for Bambams example of sprinkling. I agree, it only produces a wet baby, does nothing for that child. Jesus Christ baptizes with the Holy spirit, baptism by emersion is an act that should be done when the person is mature enough to make a conscious decision to accept Christ as Lord and Saviour. My wife was sprinkled as a baby. Made her church and parents feel good, but it really did nothing for her. As an adult, she was baptized because she wanted to reaffirm her pledge with God. Baptism is symbolic, that you repent of your sins, and that you are pledging your life to God to be the best you can be. Have to leave for work now, later. POWDERMAN.  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

[Brett]

GB made a good point about omitting people outside of the group if we keep it here, and said he has no problem opening a new forum If we can show that there is enough interest.  So far I have only heard from three or four people on this string.  

I think that I will open a POLL under the Request for New Forum section to see what happens.  If we don't get the votes then it stays here.

Getting into different theologies worries me because I'm concerned that it would distract us from the message the book is trying to convey.  GB's rules of conduct should cover anything else that may arise.

[BamBams]

A problem I have with rules is that they may severely hamper legitimate discussions surrounding honest and thoughtful concerns.  The same concerns that have resulted in a zillion "Christian" denominations will indeed come up from time to time. The real question is:  Can we deal with "behavioral" issues?  I think it's just a maturity issue really.  Some people just cannot disagree without acting like a jerk at the same time.

It would appear that we are all concerned about "behavior" regarding whomever decides to participate in the discussions.   It seems to me that our "discerning" moderator could deal with behavioral issues as they come up, or in his case, before they even come up. *laugh*  You could make a sticky with some forum guidlines and let people know ahead of time to expect "firm" moderation on the forum.

If you make a poll, I will vote in the affirmative.  This may be a good time to PM the other members you know and solicit some "yes" votes as the new poll may go un-noticed by many interested parties for quite some time?  

Well, I'm off the to shooting range to go and instruct the lesbians in my charge today.  I hope all goes well.

[BamBams]

Well, it didn't go well at all.  All the way down there, it's a 35 mile drive, God started speaking to me (whether you wish to believe it or not) and convinced me that teaching these people today was NOT what he wanted me to. Actually, I heard him say ALOT more than that about this situation, but suffice it say that I'm not really into elaborating right now.

When I got there, I endeavored to explain this to my colleague, but the range owner (greedy jerk) wanted to charge me $9.00 just to walk out there and talk to my friend for 2 minutes.  I left some curses on his doormat and drove back home.   So now I'm out $10.00 in gas which I really needed, and have a big headache, but I guess the lesson here for me is how foolish I was to not consult with God FIRST about doing this class.

Oh, one other thing, God really does NOT like what these people are doing today.  You can take that to the bank.

[powderman]

My point was that a large variety of folks come to this forum seeking a variety of things. Out of curiousity they may well click on a link discussing religion and not only read, and learn, but maybe even ask questions themselves. If we have a seperate religious forum, I fear a lot of folks are not going to click on it to view it. I can't see a new forum getting that much attention because so far there are just a few of us.
BAMBAMS. I know the feeling. Today our resident lezzie at work, there are several, but she really looks it, bought flowers for her sweetie. They went over to mickey ds and made googoo eyes at each other.  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted: . They want to go to hell thats their business. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?

[BamBams]

I totally understand.  You're looking at this from an evangelistic point of view.  I am looking at it primarily from an educational point of view.  I think everyone who chooses to participate will benefit from it as God's word never returns void, but always accomplishes that for which it was intended. *smiles*

Haven't heard anything more about Brett making the poll though?  I checked down there tonight, and didn't see anything.  Either way, we're bound to have a very interesting time with this.  Well, we've got a "discerner" and protector of the flock, we've got an evangelist, we've got a teacher - so let's have some church!  HAHAHAHA

Now that I think about it, let's NOT have "church"  If it resembles a church too much, I might run away. *smiles*

[Graybeard]

Not at all sure why Brett was having a problem setting up a POLL but it's done. I gave you three options. Yes in separate forum, yes in pot belly stove and Nope.