Lever gun bullet choice

[unclenick]

Veral,

I didn't see a picture of the lever gun bullets in the catalog.  I am interested in the 400 and 450 grain weight range in .458 for the Marlin 1895.  Also, since my Dad and I both recently bought or Marlins (Ballard rifling) and two friends of mine have them from twenty odd years ago (microgroove rifling), I am wondering if these same bullet shapes would work well in all of them?

Thanks,
Nick

[Veral]

The M bullet was designed specifically for 45-70 Marlins, to feed smoothly and shoot accurately with high retained velocity at long range.  But the LFN and WFN are both good choices, and will kill clean with lower impact velocities than the M bullet.    The M bullet has a crimp groove and fits all Marlins, whereas the LFN and WFN I do not put crimp grooves in when cutting for lever guns, as seating depth must be adjusted for individual rifles.  The bullets can be crimped then with a Lee Factory Crimp die.  Crimp very lightly.  Just enough to keep bullets from being driven deeper into the case from slamming in the magazine.

   Old or new Marlins will chamber the above bullets, and Micro groove rifling is not a liability for cast as many believe.  It is in my opinion the ultimate cast bullet rifling form, but the bore must be smooth.  Of coarse that's a requirement with any rifling form, and lapping will slick them up, using the LBT lap kit.  I reccomend lapping of all guns that will be used for cast, without even testing the bore quality first.  The best barrels are improved, and bad ones dramatically!

[unclenick]

I'll be sure to get my microgroove-owning friends to firelap.  One of them still assumes the microgroove won't shoot cast bullets well.  But I can believe the firelapping will fix it.  I always remember how shocked I was the first time I cleaned a newly firelapped barrel after shooting regular loads through it.  Almost no effort.

How wide are the meplats on the M, LFN, and WFN in 450 grain .458's?  Which would be your first choice for dangerous game, given that feed reliability could be as important as stopping power in that circumstance?  For deer in thick growth, I would just assume the WFN is best, being the shots are likely to be a short range, single shot kills anyway.  But once the possible need for a rapid backup round comes into consideration, some compromise seems reasonable.  Is the LFN that compromise?

Nick

[Veral]

The WFN and WLN have meplat diameters .090 smaller than bullet diameter, the LFN is .130 smaller, or about .330 diameter, which is optimum for the 45-70 in my opinion, driven at not faster than 1600 fps, with 1400 fps impact speed being optimum, regardless of game size.  I've found that any bullet that will kill an elk quick will also kill smaller critters at least as quick.  

If you want to wind the bullets up a bit for better long range trajectory, the M bullet has a somewhat slimmer meplat than the LFN, and longer ogive, so it ranges out very well.  Drive it at 1800 fps or higher to get optimum performance.  The only long range report I have on it was an elk at 475 yards with a 45-70.  The customer said the mature cow turned a little circle and laid down to rest, forever.  I expect impact speed was not over 1000 fps, as he was starting them at around 1500 fps as I recall.  --  Perhaps of interest to those with out extensive experince in the game fields, game isn't spooked with long range gunfire, so they don't tend to race off when hit.  None I've encountered really understood everything that is going on when a rifle cracks, so a little bite in the ribs isn't associated with the far away boom.  That's how it appears to me, and I've taken a lot of game at over 300 yards, and out to 500+ yards.

Never shoot at long range if you can get closer, or at unwounded animals, unless you know where your gun hits very well.  You'll learn it fastest shooting a lot at rocks and dirt where bullet impact is visable, at unknown long ranges.  After a few hundred impacts you'll learn to drop your bullet where it should go, by feel, just like you throw a ball with experiance.  That's the way Elmer Keith did such phenominal long range handgunning.