So if I have read the cleaning threads right...

[Selmer]

If I have read the threads right, I should not use the TC Bore Butter, I should just shoot my muzzleloader, clean it with cold water mixed with non-ammonia window cleaner or with a cider vinegar mix, and then spray the bore down with Ballistol?  Let me know if I got this right now.
Selmer

[P-J]

Everybody has an opinion here, as I'm sure you've noticed. To some degree, you have to find your own way.

When we put water in the bore, we have to make sure to get it out, as in dry. The problem area is waaay down at the bottom corner where dry patches won't get. I've tried WD-40 to displace the moisture, that didn't work well. Everything looked good until I pulled the breech plug for a close look.

Some say Ballistol will mix with residual moisture and prevent problems. I haven't tried that yet, but I have tried soluble oil. Results were not good.

I keep going back to soap & water with a boiling hot water rinse, and the barrel dries itself. Yes, if I use too much soap and remove all oils I will get slight surface rusting. I continue looking for a cold cleaning method I can have confidence in, and am going to try cider vinegar next.

?? I thought the vinegar was used straight, not diluted.

I can't disagree with others' experiences, but for me warm water cleans better than cold, hot is better yet, and a tiny bit of soap is still better. Cold water should be good enough, but then you have to figure out how to get the bottom of the hole dry. And if you can't remove the breech plug, you never know. I remove plugs every year two on rifles that allow it, and after a couple of months when trying a new cleaning method.

[Selmer]

I have read about straight and mixed cider vinegar, it must be like vodka, some like it straight up for the best effect and others like ot work at it harder by mixing it, either way, same end result, one just takes longer than the other.  The drying issue is a good point.  I have an Encore so the breech plug is not hard to take out to allow it to dry, and it will make cleaning easier.
Selmer

[fredj]

If I have read the threads right, I should not use the TC Bore Butter, I should just shoot my muzzleloader, clean it with cold water mixed with non-ammonia window cleaner or with a cider vinegar mix, and then spray the bore down with Ballistol?  Let me know if I got this right now.Selmer

Selmer- The whole bore seasoning thing is ridiculous it came about in the mid 80's promoted by the manufacturer of Wonder Lube 1000 and T/C
it's basically lard mixed with a wax, BP and particularly Pyrodex can and will sit under the crap merrily rusting away, some seasoning adherents
will clean up thier bores and show you it's nice and shiney, the problem is
there is flake rust and pitting in the pores which you'd see if you examined the bore with a bore scope. Countless barrels have been ruined over the years by using Bore butter or wonder lube with Pyrodex, and to a lesser degree with BP. A good bit of the damage is dependant upon the climate you live in, if you live in the Southwest and the relative humidity
rarely goes above 30%, you can get away with a lot.
   I think the best way to maintain a BP rifles bore is to clean with patches
and non ammoniated glass cleaner straight or diluted Cider vinegar straight or diluted, automotive windshied washer solution straight or diluted, water (cold) anti freeze diluted, etc, etc, use patches till they come out reletively clean then use a patch saturated with alcohol which will remove any residual moisture, dry patch then let the remaining alcohol evaporate and oil the bore, I use LPS 2 for normal, LPS 3 for
long term storage, clenzoil works fine for short term some folks use automatic transmission fluid, Ballistol is reputed to be real good also, I've used it as a constituent of homemade patch lube but not as a bore preservative. I never have so I can't say how good it is. it's certainly cheap, then next time you shoot use cheap aerosol brake cleaner on a patch to remove the oil. Hot water promoted after rusting
detergent is highly alkaline both are counterproductive. I think it's even more important for infrequent shooters to clean properly, rust never sleeps, ask any honest bore butter fan how often thier patches come out
reddish brown.
fredj

[P-J]

fredj, I gotta question.

"Hot water promoted after rusting"

What do you mean by after rusting?

With hot water I sometimes get slight rust while the barrel is drying, before I get it oiled. But not after oiling, and not if I don't use soap. I've heard it called flash rusting, because it appears so quickly.

In my experience, it doesn't harm anything. My no. 1 rifle is over 25 years old, so it's had plenty of tests of the effects of boiling water.

[fredj]

fredj, I gotta question."With hot water I sometimes get slight rust while the barrel is drying, before I get it oiled. But not after oiling, and not if I don't use soap. I've heard it called flash rusting, because it appears so quickly.In my experience, it doesn't harm anything. My no. 1 rifle is over 25 years old, so it's had plenty of tests of the effects of boiling water.

  P-J  That's what I meant by "after rusting" if you're oiling your bore after the cleaning you're minimizing the damage, some of this is sort of splitting hairs and there are lots of other factors involved, but lots of folks that shoot heavy bench rest slug guns have thousands invested in their rifle and when they see some rust coming out on on thier patches they freak out, I don't shoot slug guns but am very particular about my bores
one of my friends is a barrel maker and I'm able to examine my barrels
with a professional bore scope and when I saw rust and pitting in the pores of a couple of my barrels which look great to the naked eye and found there is no way to stop the damage I started looking into better
ways to clean so that sort of thing wouldn't happen in the future, granted
I'll probably be long dead before one of those barrels is undermined to
the extent it becomes dangerous to shoot etc. In my case I'm planning to leave my rifles to my nephew I'd kind of like to think he and his sons will
enjoy my rifles for many years. At any rate I found lots of old timers have been avoiding hot water as well as detergent and thier cleaning methods are actually considerably easier so for me it's a no brainer.
Regards fredj