Author Topic: Does 30/30 barrel benefit from muzzle break? (Read 1650 times)

hornady308 · « **on:** February 10, 2005, 03:46:26 AM »

I just picked up a Lone Eagle with a 14" 30-30 barrel. The barrel is already threaded for a factory muzzle break, and I see the breaks on auction sites for around $70. Question: will a muzzle break make any real difference? I regularly shoot my Encore and Contender with more powerful cartridges than 30-30, but the Lone Eagle has a very different feel.

Thanks for advice.
hornady308

jhalcott · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2005, 06:50:38 AM »

I have a 12" 308Lone eagle and several other 30 caliber handguns. A break will REDIRECT the recoil. I had to put a break on my 358JDJ And have one on a 6.5 & 45-70(actually these are ported).Un fortunately ,you ,the shooter is the only one that can decide if a break will help. I think it will help you keep the gun on target and shoot smaller groups. It will make the gun SEEM louder, so ear protection is a must.
I know what you mean about the "feel" being different.

Lawdog · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2005, 09:59:18 AM »

Quote from: jhalcott

I have a 12" 308Lone eagle and several other 30 caliber handguns. A break will REDIRECT the recoil. I had to put a break on my 358JDJ And have one on a 6.5 & 45-70(actually these are ported).Un fortunately ,you ,the shooter is the only one that can decide if a break will help. I think it will help you keep the gun on target and shoot smaller groups. It will make the gun SEEM louder, so ear protection is a must.
I know what you mean about the "feel" being different.

Correction, not SEEM, WILL make it louder. Lawdog

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2005, 10:36:53 AM »

I was reading about the history of muzzle brakes a few days ago and with only a couple of exceptions (like the Tokarev rifle of WWII Russia), muzzle brakes have been rejected by the militaries of the world because of the extra blast and noise. The people who pick guns for the military are very concious of recoil as a deterrent to good shooting so they have studied the problem in detail. Muzzle brakes have been around since before WWI.

poncaguy · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2005, 11:05:25 AM »

My 16" 45-70 has a brake, ( Contender), I think it relly helps recoil. :?

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2005, 02:15:36 PM »

cant stand them my ears are still ringing from shooting my 7 waters last hunting season. I think i did permenant damage.

chris s · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2005, 02:07:31 AM »

The brake will reduce recoil. It is subjective. I had a LE in 7-08 and with the break there was a little bit of muzzle rise. I put the TC muzzle tamer on a 308 barrel and it redirected the recoil straight back. I'm told the position of the grip on the LE has to do with how the recoils.

Lawdog · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2005, 11:23:45 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale

cant stand them my ears are still ringing from shooting my 7 waters last hunting season. I think i did permenant damage.

If the ringing hasn't went away by now you did damage your hearing. Just a recommendation but I would get my rear down to the Doctor's office as soon as possible and get it checked to see how mush damage was done. Dont wait to long. Lawdog

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2005, 11:58:24 AM »

Muzzle brakes do not in any way, shape, form or fashion benefit a barrel. It is not the purpose of one to benefit a barrel. They are added to benefit the shooter who insists on using a round with more recoil than they have any reasonable business shooting.

The .30-30 is not likely one that has more recoil than any shooter can reasonably handle. Putting a brake on it is the height of foolishness. They always make it much louder on your ears and unless needed to deal with the recoil are an unwise investment.

poncaguy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2005, 12:05:28 PM »

My 16" 45-70 Contender came with one. I know recoil doesn't seem that bad, but I have never shot a 45-70 pistol without one...........

springer222 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2005, 02:06:57 PM »

Like Poncaguy, I to have a braked 45-70 (only mine is 14") and I have not shot the 45-70 pistol w/o a break. I find this barrel to be very pleasant when loaded at moderate levels. But I have a 223 Hunter barrel (12" braked) that I picked up in a trade and I nearly refuse to shoot because of the concussion. Even with ear plugs and muffs both, this barrel is unpleasant. I haven't shot a braked 30-30 but I have a 14" Contender barrel that I regularly shoot loaded w/135 gr bullets w/o discomfort (always with hearing protection).

Sourdough · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2005, 09:45:44 PM »

I use a Contender 30-30 for hunting, and have taken a nice Caribou with it. Recoil is very managiable if you hold the gun properly. Don't hold it like you would a reguler pistol, If you do expect to get a crease in your forehead.

Zachary · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2005, 04:45:25 AM »

It is not a question of IF the muzzle break will reduce recoil on the .30-30, but rather HOW MUCH it will reduce it.

I have muzzle brakes on some of my rifles, my favorite one being the Vais Muzzle brake because, believe it or not, it isn't really all that loud. Then again, it's not the most effective percentage wise.

The most effective muzzle brake I have is one by Answer Products. Recoil is drastically reduced, but that's also in part because of the recoil pad which is part of the "Answer System." Still, this thing is so dang loud that I don't like it and wish I never put it on.

GB is right, if the gun kicks too much for you, then don't put on a muzzle brake, just get a smaller gun. I learned this kinda later in life and I won't be putting on any other muzzle brakes on my rifles.

Now, as to your specific question, I have noticed that the effectiveness of a MB is related to the bullet's speed. The faster the bullet, the more effective the MB. Lower velocity means less performance out of your MB. With a .270 or 7mag, the reduction in recoil is noticeable. However, in a .30-30, which isn't a big kicker to being with, the difference, if any, will be slight. The problem with a muzzle brake on a pistol is that the muzzle blast form such a short barrel will definately affect the shooter (and his ears).

Zachary

billjoe · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2005, 07:38:50 AM »

I have a 14" 30-30 with muzzle brake and I think it is swe-e-e-t to shoot. I compare it to my 7-30, 357Max, or 6.5 and it shoots easier than any of them. When they shoot easy, your aim is better and accuracy improves.

As far as the noise goes, I ALWAYS shoot with hearing protection on, even when I hunt. I have no problem from ringing ears with muzzle brakes.

By the way, if we were limited by the comfort level of being able to shoot big caliber handguns, people would find a way to change it. They would add muzzle brakes if that's what it takes. There would be a lot more unhappy people shooting 375JDJs if they could not use a break. I bet there are braked 375JDJs out there than not.
I like my 30-30 break. I would sell my 7-30 before I would my 30-30. (No it's not for sale yet) It's pleasant to shoot, but wear your ear protectors.

bj

Lawdog · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2005, 01:05:23 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Muzzle brakes do not in any way, shape, form or fashion benefit a barrel. It is not the purpose of one to benefit a barrel. They are added to benefit the shooter who insists on using a round with more recoil than they have any reasonable business shooting.

The .30-30 is not likely one that has more recoil than any shooter can reasonably handle. Putting a brake on it is the height of foolishness. They always make it much louder on your ears and unless needed to deal with the recoil are an unwise investment.

Graybeard is RIGHT. There is no such thing as a "quiet" muzzle brake. Sorry Zachary but all the Vais Muzzle Brake does is redirect the sound away from the shooter which means someone else gets the full effect of the blast. Rifle or handgun, if you cant take the recoil get a smaller caliber. Lawdog

Zachary · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2005, 03:33:56 PM »

When I was younger, about 18 or so, I bought a new Browning A Bolt Stainless Stalker in 7mag and .270 winchester. I put two Vais Muzzle brakes on them (the owner, George Vais, had his company in Houston where I lived and later sold his patent to another company.)

Anyhow, it is true that with reduced recoil, AND hearing protection, I get better groups. But it is also true that people around you get slammed with ringing ears unless they too have hearing protection.

Wearing hearing protection at the range is fine, but I don't want to wear hearing protection while hunting because good hearing is almost as important as good vision when it comes to hunting. (Granted, I have heard that some devices like Walker's game ear allows you to hear everything yet it blocks muzzle blast, but I'm talking about traditional hearing protection.

Lawdog, I agree with you for the most part - people should just shoot what their recoil tolerances allow without the use of a muzzle brake. I used to have a very serious mental thing going on with flinching, and that's because my father started me out with a Remington BDL in .30-06 and 180 grain bullets with a metal recoil pad when I was about 15 or 16 years old - OUCH!

Let me tell you - it really is mostly mental. Since that time, I put on muzzle brakes and, after that, I learned to deal with this flinching issue. Now, believe it or not, I have a .375H&H that does NOT have a muzzle brake and I can get 1/4" groups at 100 yards, so that shows to prove that I can handle a whole lotta recoil without flinching.

The only thing I kinda disagree with is that the Vais muzzle brake is actually quieter (not quiet, but quieter) than most other MBs. The reason for this, as George Vais told me, is because he cross drilled holes in the front of the MB so that gases (and thus noise) also are directed forward. True, people next to a Vais MB will definately hear it, but when I am hunting alone, I am the only one that is concerned with the MB so I don't want to hear it. Again, I own two types of MBs, and while the Vais MB is not "quiet" it is, without a doubt, much quieter from the shooter's perspective than the Answer MB.

Of course I could care less about MBs now since I have learned to deal with my flinching problem. :grin:

Zachary

halfbreed · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2005, 01:09:19 AM »

well shoot guys, I certainly have to disagree with you guys on this one. I have a 458 win mag i normally shoot with full throttle loads, 465 rfn gc, at 2300 fps. before the brake all I wanted was 20 rounds off the bench, with a Gentry quiet brake 30 rounds is no big deal. I bought this rifle with the idea of Alaska, either moving up there or at least a few fly in fishing trips. And no I am not talking about shooting the fish either.
I do have a few physical problems that have made me glad for the brake. I can't tell the differance in muzzle blast with or without the brake, but the recoil is reduced dramatically. This is one product I will definatly stand behind, with or without hearing protection. I always use quality plugs with my lil' 3" .44mag.
For what it is worth,
Halfbreed

Zachary · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2005, 01:47:01 AM »

Halfbreed,

I don't own, and have never used, a Gentry brake, so I can't speak about it - although it sounds to be quieter than the Vais. I can shoot my rifles with the Vais MB on and it doesn't bother me, but I better wear hearing protection with when using the Answer MBs.

Either way, I'm sure that recoil will be reduced on your 458. Thing is, when hunting in Alaska, it seems that you NEED something bigger than people can normally handle without an MB beccause the critters up there are a whole lot bigger than we are.

Zachary

halfbreed · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2005, 01:58:39 AM »

Zachary, good to hear from you, And thanks for keeping an open mind! I really wanted to move to Alaska, and still would if I could. I have several friends up there. They keep sending photos of bears killed up there. Whooo big bears. Some are fun to watch from a distance, some even further, I have a tendancy to want big guns when dealing with animals of
grizzly nature and size. But a moose in rut is just as hornery and dangerous. I really like the Gentry brake. Yes I have shot it before and after the brake without hearing protection, just to see what the differance is. there was none, or so close to none, without decibal metering equipment, I could not tell any differance. I figure it removes about 30% of the recoil from a 458 winnie. I feel it brings it down to a stiff 180-200 grain lodaed 06'. I can handle that!
Halfbreed

tripper · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2005, 06:53:30 AM »

Lloyd I to had a 7x30 with a break, one day at the range it went down range some place upon firing the gun. It is the only time I have been happy to see something break on a gun. I sent the barrel off To TC and they gave me a 14" with no break in it's place. You most likely do have perm. damage to the ear and all the doc. can do is tell you how much. I have the ringing in both ears, but it is from noise at work.

Lawdog · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2005, 08:49:25 AM »

Halfbreed,

Sorry to disagree with you but at the Gentry web site it states just below the David Gentry header,

Quote

The Quiet Muzzle Brake
Reduces recoil up to 85%
No reduction in accuracy or velocity
Gas & noise is directed away from the shooter

The noise level is increased but as stated "Gas & noise is directed away from the shooter". ALL muzzle brakes increase the level of the muzzle blast, there is no such thing as a "Quiet" muzzled brake. Please show me an ad for a muzzle brake that states that they deduce the 'db' level of a muzzle blast and the corresponding data to back up their claim. Lawdog

halfbreed · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2005, 03:48:21 PM »

Lawdog, on the faster cartridges it probably does reduce recoil to a lot higher percentage. Of course the 458 winnie does not have that high a velocity to work with. I bet a 460 Weatherby would have a higher percentage recoil relief.
also some breaks are much louder than others, that is a fact nobody can deny! I am not going to stand in front of my rifle when I touch it off, just to see how much differance there is in the db level

Some may try this, but not me, no thanks!

halfbreed · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2005, 03:58:47 PM »

There is no such thing as a "quiet" muzzle brake. Sorry Zachary but all the Vais Muzzle Brake does is redirect the sound away from the shooter which means someone else gets the full effect of the blast. Rifle or handgun, if you cant take the recoil get a smaller caliber. Lawdog

When I am shooting paper, the target does not care how loud the rifle is, I certainly don't allow anybody beside of, or in front of me when shooting. If I am hunting the critter will certainly not care for long how loud the rifle is. And if it were a braked pistol ( which I don't own one of) and there was a seld defense situation he certainly would not care for long either!
Dead duck, Dead duck
Halfbreed

v-man · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2005, 02:45:51 AM »

My .308 Savage Striker has the brake that you can twist to open or close. I shoot with it closed most of the time. When I open it there is a noticeable increase in the blast but I can feel no difference in the recoil. I'm not sure it serves a very useful purpose.
Having said that I would like to add that I'm surprised at the level of disdain expressed by some over the use of brakes. If a person can increase his tolerance to recoil and move to a bigger gun by using a brake, why bash him? It's obvious on this site that big boomers and machismo are the theme. Maybe a guy has no problem handling a big caliber in the field or for a few rounds at the range.A brake may allow him the bench time he needs to sight in and fine tune his loads and longer practice sessions to master shot placement which we all know is paramount in the field.