Author Topic: MOSQUES  (Read 4118 times)

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Offline IntrepidWizard

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« on: February 10, 2005, 04:56:22 AM »
What is happening in some American mosques...is deeply disturbing. In
certain Islamic schools, textbooks spit vitriol against Jews, Christians and
other non-Muslims: 'Be disassociated from the infidels, hate them for their
religion.' In mosque publications, America is the 'Abode of the Infidel.'
The idea of human and civil rights is heresy. Working women are immoral.
These views are extreme, they promote violence and they are being espoused
right under our noses. We knew this was happening in France, Germany and
England but we didn't know the extent of the problem here. It is not
happening in all mosques or Islamic schools, by any means, but in those
select ones funded by the Saudi government to disseminate the fanatic
Wahhabi-style Islam that has its demagogic roots in Saudi Arabia. The Center
for Religious Freedom just issued a discomfiting report looking at the
spread of hate propaganda in America by Saudi Arabia. The center collected
200 books and other publications from mosques across the country and spent
the past two years analyzing them. 'The Saudi textbooks and documents spread
throughout American mosques preach a Nazi-like hatred for Jews, treat the
forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical fact, and avow that the
Muslim's duty is to eliminate the state of Israel,' writes Nina Shea, the
Center's director. In addition, they 'instill contempt for America because
the United States is ruled by legislated civil law rather than by
totalitarian Wahhabi-style Islamic law.' ... In his State of the Union
speech, President Bush exhorted the Saudis to encourage democracy in the
Middle East. He should also put intense pressure on them to stop fomenting
hate within our borders. It jeopardizes our security and is an insult to our
tradition of freedom of religious expression. It flies in the face of
everything we hold true." --Chicago Sun-Times
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2005, 05:07:57 AM »
Quote from: Intrepidwizard
...American mosques...


No such thing...

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2005, 05:16:46 AM »
Fwed I thought you were on the meds and ok now.A "Mosque" in American is a AMERICAN MOSQUE that is not to hard to understand --------is it?Also Islam and Mormons are the fastes growing religions in the US.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2005, 11:42:44 AM »
Quote from: Intrepidwizard
A "Mosque" in American is a AMERICAN MOSQUE that is not to hard to understand --------is it?


I'll try and go slow so's you can GET IT.

No institution that promotes overtly anti-AMERICAN values, or that actively works for the destruction of American society and it's ideals is an "American" anything.

Quote from: Intrepidwizard
Be disassociated from the infidels, hate them for their religion.

Human and civil rights is heresy.

Working women are immoral.

They promote violence.

They preach a Nazi-like hatred for Jews, and treat the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical fact.

They avow that the Muslim's duty is to eliminate the state of Israel.

They instill contempt for America because the United States is ruled by legislated civil law rather than by totalitarian Wahhabi-style Islamic law.


Please review the choice tid-bits that I selected from your opening post.  What is listed there that might be considered as an American value?

If those organizations truthfully promote the issues and ideas that are listed above, they are not "American" mosques, they are Islamic Fanaticism Re-education Centers.

Quote from: Intrepidwizard
Also Islam and Mormons are the fastes growing religions in the US.


Yeah, there are millions of gullible people looking for something to believe in.  Why not work to teach them about Santa Claus?  It requires just as much unquestioning faith in some intangible hero figure, has a researchable history repleat with witnesses and miracles, has an easy to understand set of spiritual guidlines for acheiving "salvation", it's peaceful, and it's 100% AMERICAN.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2005, 12:43:47 PM »
Why does one think of abstusity when you post?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline Shorty

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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2005, 01:14:00 PM »
What ever happened to the Black Muslims who cried "White Devils" back in the sixties?
 Why do you think that so many blacks have adopted Islam?  I'll tell you.  It's because whites are Christian, so they want to be ANYTHING different.  Oh, they say their ancestors must have been Moslems since they came from Africa, but that's bull.  Their ancestors were probably Animists who were enslaved by Moslems!

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2005, 02:02:26 PM »
Quote from: IntrepidWizard
Why does one think of abstusity when you post?


...abstusity...

You might want to look that one up.

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2005, 02:34:24 PM »
Quote from: FWiedner
Quote from: IntrepidWizard
Why does one think of abstusity when you post?


...abstusity...

You might want to look that one up.

 :?



I cant find it.  :)


Back to topic.  

This doesn't suprise me at all. Doesn't bother me much either as I don't care what they believe.  What bothers me is our country, society whatever you call it, thinks we have a duty to change their mind.
Let them think & preach what they will, but don't help them. If they hate us, let them go it alone. Cut them out of the circle. acknowledge them if they pose a threat to us by removing the threat but not by imposing our beliefs & values on them. They dont have to like us but must be made to respect us.
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2005, 02:58:50 PM »
abstrusity
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2005, 03:19:49 PM »
Quote from: Leverdude
Let them think & preach what they will, but don't help them. If they hate us, let them go it alone. Cut them out of the circle. acknowledge them if they pose a threat to us by removing the threat but not by imposing our beliefs & values on them. They dont have to like us but must be made to respect us.


I am in agreement with this statement.

Good fences make good neighbors, as they say.  As my neighbor respects me, so I respect him.  If it comes over the fence, one way or the other, we do something about it.

I don't see why this simple American principle can't be applied to the bigger picture.

As for the islamists and their "temples of hatred", if they don't want to teach their followers some measure of appreciation for this country and it's people, then perhaps it's time these folks started looking for new neighbors..., in Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or Iraq, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or Libya, or Syria...  

The world is a BIG place.  I'll bet that thay can find the little 12th century paradise of their dreams if they just try.

We just need to help them with what they want most.  A hand stretched out in friendship, or a boot applied to help them on the way.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2005, 03:32:38 PM »
Quote from: IntrepidWizard
Why does one think of abstusity when you post?


Quote from: IntrepidWizard
abstrusity


Because when one sees a familiar coin, he sometimes fails to consider that the opposing side might not appear as he believes it should.

 :eek:
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline powderman

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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2005, 04:25:47 PM »
Islam is a fast growing cancer bent on total control of the world. They are as mad dogs, their mosques are their lairs where they preach hatred of all non muslims. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline ShadowMover

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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2005, 07:32:31 PM »
In the interest of being fair, why just talk about the Islamic fanatics?  I'll bet we could find some damning tidbits in the Koran, New Testament, and the Torah.  How many high government officials have been convicted of spying for Islamic countries?  There are always people who can suggest "Let's you and him fight."  Has anyone read any Kipling lately? I suggest we start securing our country at the borders, or we won't have to worry about Islam controlling the world. BTW who does control the world?

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2005, 01:30:04 AM »
Quote from: FWiedner
when one sees a familiar coin, he sometimes fails to consider that the opposing side might not appear as he believes it should.

 
Thanks for words of wisdom, say Dali Llama. :-)  :grin:
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Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2005, 01:33:03 AM »
Quote from: ShadowMover
In the interest of being fair, why just talk about the Islamic fanatics?  I'll bet we could find some damning tidbits in the... New Testament
:shock:  :eek:  :eek:  :shock:
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Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2005, 04:26:52 AM »
Quote from: Leverdude
Quote from: FWiedner
Quote from: IntrepidWizard
Why does one think of abstusity when you post?


...abstusity...

You might want to look that one up.

 :?



I cant find it.  :)


Back to topic.  

This doesn't suprise me at all. Doesn't bother me much either as I don't care what they believe.  What bothers me is our country, society whatever you call it, thinks we have a duty to change their mind.
Let them think & preach what they will, but don't help them. If they hate us, let them go it alone. Cut them out of the circle. acknowledge them if they pose a threat to us by removing the threat but not by imposing our beliefs & values on them. They dont have to like us but must be made to respect us.


Leverdude...1 question for you...in your quote that I underlined...exactly how would you propose to do this...???? You can't just acknowledge and then  ignore a major threat......This isn't a political revolution they are calling for

This is just my honest opinion here...since I am a firm believer in the Bill of Rights...and Freedom of Religion...but ...how can we protect our nation...if within our our borders..we have people who are hell bent on our destruction... all in the name of another religion and God? This isn't about trying to effect a political  revolution FOR the people,or even opposing the government...this is calling for OUR death because we aren't of the same faith....now...my take on this is.... since this would constitute sedition and promotes criminal activity...that our government should be able to stop it...without infringing on the Bill of Rights...this would take a understanding of what the Framers actual meaning of Freedom of religion meant at the time of it's writting on our part here...and since other peacfull Cristian and non Christian faiths were being persecuded by either the Holy Roman Church...and the Church of England...it doesn't take a stretch of imagination what their true purpose was for...I really don't believe we can allow any group...under any disguise to preach hatred or wanton killing of people just because they don't believe the way they do...and you know...I believe the laws are already in place to support this...are they not?

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2005, 09:00:18 AM »
Quote from: Mac11700
Quote from: Leverdude
Quote from: FWiedner
Quote from: IntrepidWizard
Why does one think of abstusity when you post?


...abstusity...

You might want to look that one up.

 :?



I cant find it.  :)


Back to topic.  

This doesn't suprise me at all. Doesn't bother me much either as I don't care what they believe.  What bothers me is our country, society whatever you call it, thinks we have a duty to change their mind.
Let them think & preach what they will, but don't help them. If they hate us, let them go it alone. Cut them out of the circle. acknowledge them if they pose a threat to us by removing the threat but not by imposing our beliefs & values on them. They dont have to like us but must be made to respect us.


Leverdude...1 question for you...in your quote that I underlined...exactly how would you propose to do this...???? You can't just acknowledge and then  ignore a major threat......Mac
Dali Llama say that if a threat be removed in the most literal, absolute sense of the word, there be no more beliefs and values to consider. :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2005, 09:25:29 AM »
Quote
Dali Llama say that if a threat be removed in the most literal, absolute sense of the word, there be no more beliefs and values to consider. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


I'm not really sure I understand what you mean here DaliLama...if you mean we don't have the right to totally eleimanate a danger or threat imposed by a radical element of the Muslim faith...then I don't agree with you...anytime someone is promoting hatred are urging people to kill another sect of people for not following their faith...isn't following the true Muslim faith...I certainly don't want to see all Muslim pay for the crimes of these extremist  here...it would be a tradjedy if that were to happen...but at the same time...I don't want to see these radical extreamist incourage wonten killings either...anyone here in this country can practice any faith they choose to...and  not be persicuted for doing so...but..they under the Bill of Rights donot have the right to promote violence on innocents...and even the Koran teaches that I do believe...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2005, 11:23:01 AM »
Mac,
I apologize if I was confusing, I was actually thinking in broader terms than the topic of this thread when I wrote that. But still it remains that we help them in many ways to spread their idealogy. If like you said there are laws in place to stop hateful teachings them I suppose that domestically we could shut them down & send them away. I woulda thought this was a free speach issue in this country.

It says in the original post that the Saudis are funding alot of these teachings. We also know that an unusually large percentage of terrorists are Saudis. Might help to start making them feel the pinch.

Cut them out of the circle, they need, as alot of the countries over there do, to remember who & what made them sucessful in a land where most countries are anything but.

I'll give a homeless guy help if I can, he robs my house or threatens my family & he may get something, but help it wont be & if in the end he lies bloody in the street I'll not help him up or give him shelter as he chose his lot by betraying me.
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Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2005, 12:37:37 PM »
Quote from: Mac11700
Quote
Dali Llama say that if a threat be removed in the most literal, absolute sense of the word, there be no more beliefs and values to consider. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


I'm not really sure I understand what you mean here DaliLama...
Dali Llama explain that in most literal, absolute sense, "removal" mean elimination (as in no longer take up space and breathe air on third rock from sun :grin: ).  So, in such context, there be no more threat extant from entities who be removed, say Dali. :grin:
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Offline powderman

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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2005, 04:18:10 PM »
MAC. Agreed Sir. POWDERMAN.  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Leftoverdj

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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2005, 07:00:17 PM »
Last time I looked, we still had freedom of speech, religion, and the press in this country. I'd like to keep it that way even for speech, religion, and press I don't like.
It is the duty of the good citizen to love his country and hate his gubmint.

Offline powderman

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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2005, 03:20:40 AM »
LODJ. Preaching hatred against all non muslims is not free speech, it is advocating genocide. Their mosques are their lairs. They should be recognized as the mad dogs they are and treated accordingly. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2005, 04:56:22 PM »
Quote
It says in the original post that the Saudis are funding alot of these teachings. We also know that an unusually large percentage of terrorists are Saudis. Might help to start making them feel the pinch.


You was a bit young...but ask around about the 73' Arab oil embargo? This is why that will never happen...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2005, 04:59:51 PM »
Quote from: Leftoverdj
Last time I looked, we still had freedom of speech, religion, and the press in this country. I'd like to keep it that way even for speech, religion, and press I don't like.


DJ...we still do...and I want to keep it that way also...but we do have laws to deal with those who are spurring reacial hatred...and since WE are the race they want to kill...seems like it would make it a Federal Issue...now wouldn't it...No One...has the right to urge others to kill anyone in this country...it isn't covered under any Law or Bill...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Leftoverdj

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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2005, 06:49:28 PM »
I dunno, Mac. I see cries to nuke Mecca in here pretty regularly. Guess it's all in who you wanna kill?

And I see fake claims pretty regular, too. I've never been in a mosque and doubt that any of those making the claims have, either.
It is the duty of the good citizen to love his country and hate his gubmint.

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2005, 04:28:24 AM »
Quote from: Mac11700
Quote from: Leftoverdj
Last time I looked, we still had freedom of speech, religion, and the press in this country. I'd like to keep it that way even for speech, religion, and press I don't like.


we do have laws to deal with those who are spurring reacial hatred...
Dali Llama say that separate category of "hate crimes" be superfluous.
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Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2005, 04:41:11 AM »
Mac,
Your right I was pretty young but I remember. Cant say I remember exactly why it happened tho.

Still I cant see pussyfooting around with them because they have oil. Their people attacked us & there should be a price for them to pay.  
Why not invade Saudi Arabia & take what we want?  Oh yeah that would be mean & ruthless right? Well, when in Rome do as the Romans.
They hate & attack us anyway so what could happen?
 Usta be to the victor goes the spoils, nowadays its to the victors goes the bill. In regards to the United States anyway.

I'm a simple man who lives in a simple way. I bother no one who lets me be, but if you want trouble & get it dont expect me to care about you once its over.
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2005, 04:45:06 AM »
Quote from: Leftoverdj
Last time I looked, we still had freedom of speech, religion, and the press in this country. I'd like to keep it that way even for speech, religion, and press I don't like.


I don't believe that we have any of these things.

Each of these first amendment issues is currently severely curtailed by issues of political correctness, fabricated hate crimes issues, people who force their beliefs about "reasonable restrictions" on their neighbors, taxation, and overt government oppression.

While we may be able to exercise some activities resembling these, the iron boot of government is forever poised to crush anything approaching real freedom.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2005, 04:54:58 AM »
Quote from: FWiedner
the iron boot of government is forever poised to crush anything approaching real freedom.
Exercise of same apparently interfere with day-to-day running of bureaucratic government in all of our "best interests," remark Dali Llama. :(  :(  :(
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk