Author Topic: 375 H&H (Read 1131 times)

Chief · « **on:** February 06, 2003, 04:52:00 PM »

I started casting a little more than a year ago. I don't know many folks that cast here in Alaska so I had to go about learning things the best I could, mostly reading this forum, the internet, and Veral Smith's book. I was able to get my hands on quite a bit of W-Ws, pure lead, and antimony that I purchased from the Antimony Man, Bill Ferguson. I also purchased quit a bit of Lee's liquid Alox and made a home made brew of 50% moly lube and 50% bees wax.

In my 44mag and 38 spec, I generally use pure W-Ws with a little tin added, lube with Alox, and then fill the grooves with my homemade lube mix when sizing. My groups are pretty ugly but I think that's more my fault and I get no leading at all. Actually I don't get any leading even when I use just the Alox. I have no experience with rifles...yet.

I have a Marlin 30-30 and Win M-70 375 H&H that I want to start shooting cast bullets in. Although I haven't shot any cast in the 30-30, I don't expect to have to much of a problem with it. However, I can't find a lot if information on the 375 H&H. I have cast quit a few bullet with a Lyman 375449 mold. I used a mix of what I believe is pretty close to 90% lead, 8% antimony, and 2% tin. It looks to me like several lube groove will be outside the case when seated in the brass.

Now for you knowledgable types. Does this set up seem to be about right for the 375? I know I'll have to mess with the sizing dia. but will the bullet hardness and lube that I decribed for the pistols work for this? The Lyman Cast Book has quite a few loads although they seem pretty light for this type gun. What kind of speed can I expect to achieve before leading or pressure problems? I'd like to eventually go after moose with the cast bullets but also want to be prepare in case of a run in with a griz, just in case. Will the lube grooves be a problem outside the case? Anything else I ought to know?

Thanks
Chief

Nobade · « **Reply #1 on:** February 15, 2003, 02:44:56 AM »

I've had good luck with a M70 in 375 H&H, but not with that Lyman bullet. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to shoot decently. But I did luck onto a 300gr. NEI borerider that is absolutely wonderful for it! It works well from light poofter loads using Red Dot or Unique at subsonic speeds, up to nearly full power loads. So far it's about right with a case full (to the base of the bullet) of surplus IMR7383 powder. It'll shoot sub MOA most of the time at 2200 fps with this setup, plenty for the elk around here. For alloy, I use range scrap mostly, though wheelweights with 2% tin added work fine too. Just drop them into a bucket of water straight out of the mold and they'll harden up in a couple of days. For the real light loads I air cool them, and get better accuracy with the softer bullets. I use Lee tumble lube for all the loads, it shoots as good as any lube I've tried and is quick and easy. Hope you get that .375 up and running, it's one of the better cast bullet guns I've gotten to play with over the years.

Chief · « **Reply #2 on:** February 15, 2003, 07:09:52 AM »

Thanks Nobade,

I was wondering about the 375449 mold. There's a place on Lyman's site that says it's specifically made for the 375 H&H, but one has to wonder why so many lube grooves are out of the case when the bullet is loaded and touching the lands, or to far in the case if you push it in farther. Either way doesn't seem quite right although the neck is pretty short on a 375 H&H. According to Veral's book your suppose to leave the grooves unfilled with lube when they are out of the case. Anyway, thanks for the info, now I know at least the gun should be able to shoot cast bullets. Thanks.

Chief

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2003, 04:05:52 PM »

Cheif

I've been using 375449 in my M70 for a couple years now with very acceptable results. With the GC at the bottom of the neck OAL is 3.483 and the top two grooves are left empty of lube. I cast them of WWs or harder, size .377 and use Javlina lube. 36 gr of AA5744 woks good at 1850 fps but lately I've been using 46 gr of milsurp 4895 and a tuft of dacron as a filler. These run at 1975 fps and seem to be shooting 2 moa all day long. The rifle has a 2.5X scope so I find that quite good. 48 gr of the 4895 runs 'em at 2100 fps with the first 5 going into 2 MOA out of a clean barrel, wouldn't hesitate to hunt deer with it. I've been going to spray them with Midway mould release before before sizing and lubing. Read somewhere that it reduced leading when lube grooves were left unlubed and didn't rub off after drying. Haven't gotten around to it though.

Larry Gibson

I was wondering about the 375449 mold. There's a place on Lyman's site that says it's specifically made for the 375 H&H, but one has to wonder why so many lube grooves are out of the case when the bullet is loaded and touching the lands, or to far in the case if you push it in farther. Either way doesn't seem quite right although the neck is pretty short on a 375 H&H. According to Veral's book your suppose to leave the grooves unfilled with lube when they are out of the case. Anyway, thanks for the info, now I know at least the gun should be able to shoot cast bullets. Thanks.

Chief[/quote]

Chief · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2003, 09:55:51 AM »

Hi Larry,

Your experience gives me hope for this mold. I was concerned about those lube grooves. Hopefully my rifle will like the bullets also. Do you water drop when you cast? I have some bullets out of straight WWs and tin that I plan to heat treat but most of what I have for this particular gun right now is made of approx. 90/8/2 lead/antimony/tin. I was hoping to get in the neighborhood of 2000 fps. I also plan to size to .377 and was giving serious consideration to using Dacron (depending on the powder).

Thanks for the response. I was beginning to think only a couple of us want to shoot cast in the 375 H&H.

Chief

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2003, 03:00:58 PM »

Chief

Yup, I water drop 'em when I'm pushin 'em hard. Been known to stalk through the high sage after rouge spring cowpies, them really soft ones. They splatter really neat when hit with a large cast bullet, LOL. Gotta watch out for the ones that charge though, a frontal brain shot is required to 'stop" them. Really messy if they get to your sneakers!

For hunting I'd use magnum lead shot, just lead and about 5% antimony (no tin) and water drop them to harden them. While I haven't hunted with this cast bullet in the .375 I have killed quite a few deer with .30s and 8 mms with this alloy. It is hard enough to drive to 2100 fps with accuracy yet will expand instead of shattering. Was going to set up feral pig hunt this month and use this very bullet/alloy but the war has got in my way (I've been very busy deploying troops) as I haven't cast any bullets lately. There is a very good article in the NRAs cast bullet supplement on loading and hunting with the .375/cast bullets and they use this bullet also. You might want to check it out.

Larry Gibson

Chief · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:47:16 PM »

Larry,
Thanks for the information.

Hey, from your last post I realized I was talking with a military type. I just retired Jan 2003 after 23 years. My wife and I wanted to stay a little longer in Alaska but the Air Force said I had to move on. I decided it was best to keep the wife happy...after all, it took me nearly 20 years and a remote tour to Korea to get to Alaska. I was a Chief/E-9 so that's where my user name came from. I was set to retire earlier but Stop-Loss kicked in from the New York terrorist incident and they disapproved my retirement. They decided to temporarily leave me here in Alaska so life was still good. Then when Stop-Loss lifted I had to either retire or move to my next assignment. Jan was the farthest I could push it without relocating so that's what I did. Now I hear rumors about Stop-Loss kicking in again with the Iraq situation.

Anyway, just thought I'd chat a little. I'd better quit before I get flamed. Again, thanks for the info.

Chief

Flapjack · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2003, 04:31:11 PM »

Chief,
What Squadron were you in? I was in the 19th FS from 96-2000(Avionics A shopper). I am a recruiter now in Bristol, TN, and just got orders to Lansing, MI. I'd love to make it back up there!! I have been using the RCBS 37-250 FN-46Gr. 4895-Water dropped strait wheelweights(I am cheap)-super Moly lube. 2000 FPS and zero leading. I only lube the bottom 2 lube groves. I get consistant 2" groups in my Mod. 70. What I do is lube just until I get the classic lube "star" on the muzzle...then start backing off the lube until it just goes away, ant stay with that amount. This prevents a phenomenon (theory) called lube "purging" wich causes flyers. I wouldnt worry too much about empty lube groves, just try and see what happens. you can also try liquid alox as stated earlier, by itself or in combination with your other lube. Just roll em in motor mica, or baby powder(cheap) and they wont be sticky. I also use 18 Grs of unique for a light load @ 1500 or so. (1.5" at 50 yds)I do not use ANY fillers in bottleneck cases, although others have used it sucessfully and safely. Hope this helps--

If you make it up to Pioneer Lodge on willow creek, tell em Paul said hi. I used to guide for them part time while I was up there.....Boy am I missing it!! -Paul

Chief · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2003, 08:18:23 PM »

Howdy Flapjack,

Thanks for the info and good hearing from you.

I was the Logistics Group Superintendent at Elmendorf. Don't know the time period you where here but I took the place of a guy named Vance Clark, Ken Post was before him. My counter part in the Operations side was a guy named Gary Wolff, who took the place of Tracy Matthews. The two Groups are combined into one now. Don't know if you knew any of those guys but some of them have been around awhile. I've spent some time in Bristol TN also, actually the Virginia side of the city more so than the TN side. My first wife was from there and I visited Bristol quite a few times before she past away.

Sure sounds like I should be able to get 2000 fps out of the 375 H&H without leading. Hope so. I don't remember seeing, hearing, or reading anything about lube "purging". I do remember Veral Smith talking about "over" lubing in his book. That's whats nice about these forums, aways learning something new. Is "purging" the lube coming out of the grooves after it leaves the barrel? I hadn't thought about it before but it kind of makes sense that that could cause some flyers. I have also heard that some of the harder lubes can still be in the grooves even after impact. I have thought about the paper peeling off of paper patched bullets in flight and wondered why that didn't cause problems. Most of the info I see says that exactly what you want to happen though.

Chief

Flapjack · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2003, 06:44:19 PM »

Chief,
Lube purging is basically an inconsistant buildup of lube in the barrel. It tends to happen more in cold weather, as the lube will harden, and will blow out the barrel once in a while causing flyers. You want to use just enough lube to prevent leading the length of the barrel. Leaving some groves un lubed may actually help with accuracy. only trying it in your particular gun and load will tell. Its all about consistancy..like your paper patch example, as long as that patch does the same thing-EVERY time-all is well. Same with gaschecks- If they all stay on the bullet to the target we are in good shape, but if one falls off in flight=flyer. Bore condition is no different. The more consistant we can keep it (excess lube,fouling etc.) the better. I think you'll be fine as long as you are sized right. IMO that is by far the most important consideration w/ accuracy & leading problems..

Thanks for your service Chief, and best of luck with your retirement. In 10 years I'll be with ya! Hopefully as a Chief! Now if I can just make Msgt......

Take care Chief. -Paul

snippyboy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2003, 12:48:22 PM »

this business about the lyman 375449 not working is a lot of baloney. since 1951 I used it in my model 70 until the throat is eroded so much it does'nt contace the rifleing. over the years it has taken over 25 deer at ranges up to 36o steps. also a goat west of moose pass years ago. the load I used was 43 grains of hivel no2 and 45 grains of 3031. if loaded with care it would shoot cloverleafs at 100 yds. don't worry about the exposed lube groves. lube them and use reasonable care. these loads get about 1900fs which is plenty for most things. if you want to use cast on moose or elk I'd look at one of the heavier bullets. although I did recover only one bullet of all those I shot, it was a small mule deer buck at 200 yds hit in the rear end the bullet was under the skin in his chest expanded to 7/8 inch. the alloy was 1 to 10 tin and lead.
snippyboy

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2003, 01:17:23 PM »

I'll have to look at the Lyman mould to get the number, but I use it with great success with .375WIN.

My question is, do any of y'all load cast for .375 H&H in a Ruger #1?

I can think of two applications - normal velocities and reaching for high velocity, perhaps paper patching.

Flapjack - I live about 100mi North of you (Pulaski, VA).