Author Topic: W 296 Powder (Read 1494 times)

Deadeye47 · « **on:** February 11, 2005, 02:41:48 PM »

Bought my first jug of W296 today...who shoots this stuff and in what calibers?? :roll: I know I've seen it mentioned in more than one post on this forum....

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2005, 03:03:14 PM »

I use it in my .357s but I have been leaning mor to H110 and IMR 4227 for the same performance. 296 works well thou I just seam to get a slight edge in accuacy otta the 4227. The 296 carries a little more speed. six of one half dozen of the other.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2005, 04:27:45 PM »

Deadeye,

W296 and H110 are the same powder. The only difference will be normal lot to lot variation, so treat it just like you would when you get a new can of powder that's from a different lot than what you've been using.

I tried H110 in my .357 Mag and never could get the accuracy I wanted. H4227 was more accurate, but I settled on IMR 800X where I got the best accuracy.

I use 11.0 gr of 800X with a 180 gr XTP/HP in .360 DW brass and 7.5 gr 800X with a 250 gr Beartooth LRNFPGC in .357 Mag brass. Both will shoot around 1 inch at 100 yards.

Ed in AL · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2005, 04:54:42 PM »

I use it in my .44 Mag. Ruger Super Blackhawk. My most accurate loads have been with W296 and a Hornady 240 gr. XTP. I have also shot the same load plus some with LSWC in my .44 barrel. Never tried any in .357.

jeff223 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2005, 05:41:51 PM »

im new to the 296 powder but i really like it so far.im shooting it in my 357max TC Contender.its a real fine powder that meters good out of the powder measure.the 296 will meter so close each time i only weigh about one in ten to check things out.its like working with blc2 and it sure will save you time at the bench if you have lots to load

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2005, 07:03:21 PM »

Thanks guys for the input...I guess I haven't been paying attention as I just learned that it was the same as H-110...whichI already have some of! :roll: I haven't opened the jug yet so may take it back and try something else...or just save my money and play with what I have! :-) I really like the XTP bullets............wish Hornady would make them in a 458 dia :wink:

JPH45 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2005, 08:10:06 PM »

Just checking to be sure I'm logged back in Deadeye, Many consider 296 and H110 to be the same, and they are probably right. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that both are made overseas somewhere, I wouldn't be any more surprised to find out Chekoslovakia or China. But that's guessing on my part, I really don't know. I'm moving more and more into surplus powders. I recently bought a jug of WC680, this is for practical purposes AA1680. It is not as fast a 296 or 110, but it is very accurate. 24.5 graisn puts 10 shots of a plain base 265 grain bullet into 3/4 to 1 1/16th inches at 50 yards. It is a very nice shooting load and the best I have seen with cast from my barrel.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2005, 08:20:19 PM »

FWIW, they are #39(H110) and #40(W296) on the powder burn rate chart in the back of my Loadbook....

jeff223 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2005, 03:37:12 AM »

the w296 powder shows more FPS than the H110. :? i think its about the same but not the same :?

JPH45 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2005, 05:03:04 AM »

jeff223, I think one'd be hard pressed to prove that one of these powders is faster than the other. In Speer #13 alone, the two swap places several times for fastest in 44 Mag that doesn't include 357 and oterh places its useful.

Quick, do a search for Alabama Mountian Mans Hunting Page or for powder burn chart (thats how I found it) There is a chart that lists 247 powders, H110 and 296 are #'s 111 and 112 respectively. I'm not sure that two powders being side by side on a chart means one is faster than the other. It could mean they are just alike. Burn rates are determined by closed bomb testing and the tests may not have anything to do with how the powder will perform in a specific application. In past I have used Unique and Universal Clays interchangably in 38 Special, 45 ACP and 45 Colt, I ain't saying thats proof, just what I've done. I'd have no problem using H110 or 296 with starting data for the other powder and working up from there.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2005, 05:15:52 AM »

Here tis...

http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2005, 07:40:14 AM »

Jeese I love the knowledge that is available to a guy on this forum...

Just printed that puppy out for my notebook... :cb2: My problem is that I don't have a sporting goods store, that is close, that has a good selection of powders...I gotta take what I can get....or drive 80 miles to Houston :eek: :shock: :eek:....I'd rather take a beating than to go over there........at least up in Tulsa I could at least pick up goodies at a monthly gun show...

JPH45: Where do you get your surplus? Do you have an outlet close or do ya have to order it in quantity and pay the rediculous hazmat cost??

Paul5388 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2005, 08:30:21 AM »

JPH,

I think you're right about the burning rates on the charts. Different charts will have powders in different order. From the one posted by Quick,

Quote

NOTE: The sequential number is for reference; it does not indicate or imply a sequence of burn rates. Any "group" of powders can vary within a sequence, and will vary from lot-to-lot. You will find some of these powders in different sequences from different sourcesthis only verifies the burn rate variances.

Mr Goat · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2005, 03:18:02 PM »

i personally think that 296/H110 is the best powder available for .45 Colt and .454 hunting loads. you can get a whole hell of alot of punch out of a 240 grain hard cast bullet with it. 2100 fps aint no joke.

JPH45 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2005, 04:26:11 PM »

Deadeye, I get my surplus from www.gibrass.com, out of Kentucky. www.hi-techammo.com/ is in Missouri. Yes, I pay the outrageous 20 dollar haz mat but do the math.......WC680 (AA1680) is 59.00 per 8 pounds. +20 makes it 79 and +10 S&H makes it 89.00. That is 10.90 per pound for a powder that is sold in gunshops for $22.00 + tax.....looks like I saved money on this end.....

There is also an internet sales company out your way that sells standard cannister grade powders for 15.00 bucks or so a pound, 90 to 110 for 8 pound kegs. Spend $100.00 on powder and you will save money. The place is Powder Valley (sorry, I don't recall the addy at the moment)

The HAZMAT charge is such a rip off. When was the last time you heard of a UPS truck erupting in flames on the highway?

I'm sure some beancounter figured out a way to make extra money, I wonder if they got a bonus?

Actually my guess is that UPS is hording some of that charge in the event of a UPS truck being involved in an accident that releases some hazardous materials. But I still think it is a rip off. I'd bet my eyeteeth (if I had 'em :grin: ) that gunpowder and primers are amoung the more innocent of hazardous materials that UPS handles.

Reminds me of a rental house we were in that caught fire after being struck by lightening. When I got to the scene, I went to the policeman who was directing street traffic and told him there was 18 pounds of gunpowder and at least 12,000 primers in the house. His eyes looked like this... :eek: :eek: :eek: .....I was pretty surprised how fast the fella could move

Fireman out front had a pretty good chuckle too. :grin:

JPH45 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2005, 04:34:45 PM »

Thanks Quick (Hope you don't mind that, just tell me if you do) I knew if anyone could find the address you could, you're pretty good at that.... :grin: I can barely find my way here. Glad we have your expertise on getting around the net. That is the most comprehensive list I have ever seen. A good one to make a copy of, I refer to it fairly regular. Glad to get to share it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2005, 05:07:27 PM »

I don't mind at all, it's nice to be good at something so I can contribute something to the group since my handloading knowledge and experience is extremely limited. :oops:

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2005, 05:21:29 PM »

Quick you may be limited but your sure not afraid to learn and share what you find out, I know I sure appreciate your time and effort

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2005, 05:30:57 PM »

Aw shucks :oops: .........thanks! It's definately been a learning experience, but a real fun one!!!

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2005, 05:39:12 PM »

Amen to that guys......Thanks JPH45 ...I have never bought any surplus powder but guess you can save some money if ya buy big quantities...that is definately half price...I like too shoot but not enough to utilize 8 pounds of powder...does one know how old this powder is??? Corse I guess I could sell a little off here and there to guys at my rifle range. :roll: I remember gibrass now...I've ordered some bullets from them before.. :oops: What kind of container does the 8 pounds come in?

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2005, 05:52:28 PM »

I get my surplus powder from Powder valley and they are great people.

Last time I bought powder it was $57/8lb keg for DATA 2200 which is very similar to AA 2230 and H322. They will ship up to 8 kegs under 1 hazmat.
www.powdervalleyinc.com

800-227-4299 I get their flier every 6 mos or so.

They don't always have the surplus powders. the last flier had AA2230C for $65/8 lb keg.

Coastwatcher · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2005, 06:22:37 AM »

I have been using standard primers with most of my loading, but one of my manuals recommends magnum primers with w296 & h110. I am thinking of switching to mag primers for all my powders. I think it will give me a more consistent ignition. Anyone else using them? How did they work? I know that I'll have to reduce the charge and work back up again to avoid over pressure. Will it be worth the effort?

JPH45 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2005, 01:20:34 PM »

I would venture to guess that most is less than 10 years old maybe as new as the last two or three years. It is either overruns or it is pulldown from ammuntion being rotated out of storage. Perhaps it is pulldown because the ammo didn't meet spec. (WC820(f) is an example, it was made for 30 carbine but was rejected for being too fast a boatlaod of people are using this powder for midrange loads in pistol cartrides like 357 and 44 Mag. Leftoverdj is shooting it in 38 Special cases.) Surplus is very shootable powder.

Smokeless powder is very very stable and will keep indefinately as far as we know, heat is the big enemy and will accelerate a powders degrading. Keep it cool and dry Hercules, (Alliant now) has samples of the first Unique powder made, they use it as a control.

8 pounds of powder is really not that much. In loadings like 30-06 and 44 Mag a pound will yeild 150-300 shots. Sippers like the 38 Special can yeild several thousand rounds a pound (7000 grains by the way) I burned a pound of Blue Dot in less than 1 year in my 44 and that was while I was shooting 3 other powders through it. My current loading of 24.5 grains of 1680 and a 265 grian bullet will yeild 285 rounds a pound, a bit over 2400 rounds, between 2 and 4 years of shooting unless I find another use for it.

You should check it out, good savings, increased shooting, known performance.....what's not to like?

JPH45 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2005, 01:23:46 PM »

Oops forgot, a slightly larger than 1 gallon plastic jug.

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2005, 03:18:13 PM »

I just may have to give that stuff a try ...right now I'm topped up for the up coming summer.....my shooting and handloading has been sporatic over the years...there was a time when I didn't fire off so much as a 22 for quite a few years...the son was ,lets say, involved in every sport ever invented... :roll: Anyway I got some powder now that I know I had in the late 60's...one is a big red can of Unique...half a can left but scared to shoot it...also a 1lb can of 24oo with a price of $4.98 on it...that was from a high priced store I was kinda forced to buy from.!! LOL I think I'll just keep um for nostalgia purposes....

I did shoot some 44 mag I had handloaded in 1978 (I believe what was written on the box) They shot great!! :lol:

Donaldo · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2005, 05:17:29 PM »

Coastwatcher,
Don't know what brand of primers you are using but it has been my experience that magnum primers at not needed, at least in the smaller calibers like 223 up to 243. This might not apply in larger cases like 30-06, etc. A lot of the reloading manuals will say magnum primers used in these loads, being mostly ball powders. I shoot mostly ball powder because I like the way they meter. I ran a test this past summer with a standard load in one of my rifles, don't remember if it was 223, 22-250 or 243, but think it was the 22-250. My load records are out in the shop so I am going from memory. :shock: But basically what I found was that using CCI regular and magnum, there whas little difference across a chrono. About the only thing I could tell was that the CCI magnum gave slightly more eratic velocities. I believe and have read somewhere that the CCI standard primer is a bit "hotter" than most other standard primers. Don't know for sure if I could prove that but that is what I believe. I have used Federal, WW, Rem and CCI. I prefer CCI standard. In fact I am shooting CCI standard primers that are close to 35 years old and they are doing just fine.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2005, 06:02:33 PM »

Deadeye,

There's probably nothing wrong with those old powders. I'm still using some Green Dot that is marked 1973 on the can (3 pounds for $8.97).

Here's what Hodgdon says about it.

Quote

Q. How do I tell if my powder has gone bad?

A. There are two tests for determining if powder has gone bad.
(1) Open the can and smell the powder. A sweet, solvent smell like alcohol, acetone or ether is fine. No odor is OK. A sour, acid smell that makes you pull your nose away from the powder is a sure sign the powder has gone bad.
(2) Pour a little powder out onto a white sheet of paper and look at it. Gray, black, and silver are normal colors with external graphite added. This is a good color. Our newer, Extreme line of extruded powders may have a green or tan tint. This is the natural color of the powder without heavy graphite coating. This is a good color. If your powder looks like it has a red, rust like dust on it, the powder is bad.
If you find that your powder has a bad smell or looks bad, remove it from the house immediately and dispose of it.

dave375hh · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2005, 02:38:33 AM »

All the Winchester and Hogdeon Ball powders are made in the same plant in Northern FLA. H-110 and Win-296 are the same powder. The reason for the small variations in load data comes from using differant lot #s. Others include H-414=W760, H-380=W748. HS6=W540, HS7=W571. Notice all of these are ball powders. Hogdeon extruded powders are made by Mullwex(SP) in Australia. Hogdeon does not now, nor have they ever manufactured powder, they resell others production or surplus and they allways have. This allows both co. to do what they do best, one makes it the other sells it and they both make money.

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2005, 06:39:14 AM »

Did I happen to mention that I love the amount of knowledge that is available on this forum?

:roll: :roll:

Donaldo · « **Reply #29 on:** February 14, 2005, 07:21:15 AM »

So true on the knowledge available here. Now I am really glad to hear about the powders. Will have to go back and see if my H380 loads are the same as W748 loads. And since I have H414, I guess I don't need to be looking for W760. From what I have seen the 380 is a bit faster than 414, OK? But it seems that in some of the manuals, they will list them just the other way around. Like more 380 than 414. Has anyone else noticed that? I mostly load for the 223 and 22-250, with some 243.