Author Topic: Bowling for Columbine  (Read 761 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nixter

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
  • Gender: Male
Bowling for Columbine
« on: February 14, 2005, 09:38:16 AM »
Gentlemen, I need some assistance. My boss is a Liberal. He has watched the movie Bowling for Columbine and swallowed the facts hook line and sinker. He wants me to view it as well and have a bit of a discussion.

I understand there is a website de-bunking Farenheit 9/11. Is there a similar site for this movie? I would like to have all my ducks in a row before this discussion. In his defense, my boss is an educated man and is open to factual relevant discussion. I need the facts and a bit of knowledge before this exchange.

I don't wish to support Michael Moore by renting this movie but it might be worth it for the discussion.

My boss is aware of my conservative nature and my views on gun control etc...

Thank you for your time.

Nixter


Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31333
  • Gender: Male
Bowling for Columbine
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2005, 11:56:59 AM »
I like to call it " Bulling about Columbine ".........
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Shorty

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
Bowling for Columbine
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2005, 01:58:45 PM »
Nixter,
What a golden opportunity.  However, I would be scared to death to undertake such an endeavor.  First, he's your boss, and second, a liberal who is open to "factual, relevant discussion" is a bit hard to grasp.   :wink:

Offline chuckles

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Bowling for Columbine
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2005, 04:59:22 PM »
I agree with shorty on this one. Sounds like a set-up to me. I would avoid ANY political discussions with a person that can have you fired or at least adversely effect your earning potential. Stay out of that one. :D

Offline Mikey

  • GBO Supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8734
Bowling for Columbine
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2005, 02:44:38 AM »
Nixter - you have a choice with this one.  You can either fight his stupidity or run and hide from his perspective.  If you decide to fight it, do it nicely by using the information provided by others so that he can see two or more opposing views.  That way, it isn't YOU who is telling him how stupid he is to believe anything from that movie.

One technique to use is to have him view or read the opposing information in sufficient detail so that he is encouraged to view the movie again - this will help him pick out the issues that he really needs clarified and that may be where you can assist him with your personal experiences.  

I agree with some of the others that whenever a liberal says he wants an open, factual discussion he is fulla schmidt and simply angling for an ambush but, the best defense is a good offense, so use some of those links provided to gather your intell first before you let him view it.  

Truth is, is you back off from a buttsniff like that, he will think he has won and that you have no business owning/using/enjoying firearms or the shooting sports.  But, there has been more than one liberal who has seen the light, so all may not be lost.  

One thing a liberal always shies away from is a firm stance.  If you invite him to watch, read or view the different perspectives (and you two can be watching the movie at the same time while you are viewing the opposing information) it will be much, much more difficult for him to completely uphold this moron as truthful.  Then you will have put him in a losing position without even really saying a word.  And that is the beauty of it.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline Randy_che

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 105
Bowling for Columbine
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2005, 11:49:55 AM »
The site is called bowlingfortruth.com.

I recommend NOT discussing religion or politics with your boss, however if he insists.....

Have him read all of the arguments on this website so that he can at least have an understanding of the misleading "facts" presented by MM in this movie.

Remember, even MM said that it is only entertainment, not a documentary.

Offline cam0063

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 98
Bowling for Columbine
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2005, 01:58:11 PM »
my text was long enough, seem to have sent it twice...
way Down Under
Western Australia.

Offline cam0063

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 98
Bowling for Columbine
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2005, 01:59:43 PM »
I have read much about Bowling for Columbine and real truth and facts ommitted from the movie... Tho this is a little off to the side, I can shed a little Aussie perspective and research into this fool named "Moore" and Farenheight 9-11...

Our main News paper here ran a story titled "ABC film pair don`t let facts spoil a good story" This article was presented by a newspaper quite anti firearm and Bush Administralion and comments on a glowing televison review on Farenheight 9-11. So it was good to see they didnot cloud their views. The article deals with the press's ability to "completely overlook Moore's errors of Commission and Omission" Here is a copy of the article, as I have kept it as a reminder of how a small time idiot can with the help of very, very creative editing, shockingly poor research and the backing of Hollywood and Political buffoons, can become a Celebrity Danger to all!

"Gerard Henderson's Column: 27 July 2004
Four-star lefties swallow Moore's popcorn

The words "exciting" and "excited" are among the most over-used utterances of our time. So it came as no surprise when the ABC announced recently that Margaret Pomeranz and David Stratton had quit SBS to present At the Movies on the public broadcaster. Pomeranz spoke about her "excitement" at the "exciting challenge". Stratton said he was "excited". Meanwhile, Sandra Levy (the director of ABC TV) was merely "thrilled" compared with her offsider Courtney Gibson who was both "thrilled" and "excited". All this in a single media release of just over a page.

Last Thursday's At the Movies reviewed Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, which has already had some preview screenings in Australia and has its official release on Thursday. Alas, there was nothing exciting or thrilling about the Pomeranz/Stratton assessment. Rather, it was what would be expected when two middle-aged Sydney-based fashionable leftists examine a film by an American leftist criticising George Bush and the coalition of the willing in Iraq. In short, Stratton agreed with Pomeranz that Fahrenheit 9/11 deserved four stars out of a possible five.

What was surprising, however, was the inability of either presenter of At the Movies to do any evident research - despite the fact that much has been written (in newspapers and on the internet) and said about Fahrenheit 9/11. Pomeranz opined that viewers of the film "get all of the facts", while Stratton declared that Moore (who wrote, directed and produced Fahrenheit 9/11) "marshalls the facts so lucidly". This analysis completely overlooked Moore's errors of commission and omission.
According to Pomeranz, Fahrenheit 9/11 provides proof of the assertion that "corporate America has its own agenda for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan" and that the Bush Administration's foreign policy is a mere "conduit" for "corporate greed". The evidence? Well, she accepted unquestioningly the film's thesis that the Bush Administration's war against terrorism in Afghanistan was motivated by the desire of the Unocal company to build a pipeline to carry natural gas from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan.

Certainly, for a time, Unocal was interested in such a project. But such consideration took place during Bill Clinton's presidency. Unocal junked the concept in 1998 and it was not revived after Bush came to office in January 2001. In other words, Bush's decision to wage war against the Taliban regime in Afghanistan - following al-Qaeda's suicide/homicide attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001 - had nothing whatsoever to do with any desired pipeline. The facts have been analysed by many commentators including Newsweek's Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball.

Then there are the errors of commission. Stratton acknowledged that Australia was not mentioned in Moore's film as being part of the coalition of the willing. However, this is only part of the story.
Four nations were involved in the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent overthrow of Saddam Hussein's regime: the US, Britain, Australia and Poland. Three other nations gave strong diplomatic support in the lead-up to the invasion - Spain, Portugal and Italy.

Yet Fahrenheit 9/11 cites only one of these nations when listing the coalition of the willing, the US. The rest are not mentioned. Instead, viewers are told that the coalition consisted of Palau (laughter please), Costa Rica (more laughter), Iceland, Romania, Morocco, the Netherlands and Afghanistan. The reference to each nation is accompanied by an onscreen caricature and, subliminally, the audience is invited to mock this collection of foreigners.

Some Australians supported John Howard's position on Iraq; others opposed. Whatever the extent of his domestic support, the Prime Minister played an important role in the lead-up to the actual decision to go to war. This is made clear in Bob Woodward's Plan of Attack (Simon & Schuster, 2004). Once the hostilities started, the Australian Defence Force had a significant role in the conflict.

For all that, it is quite likely that Bush would have gone to war without Australia's diplomatic and military support. However, it is not clear that Bush would have decided to overthrow Saddam's regime without the diplomatic and military backing of Tony Blair's Labour Government. Any analysis of the coalition of the willing that fails to mention the crucial role played by Britain is manifestly inadequate at best - and grossly dishonest, at worst. Yet neither Britain nor Blair gets a guernsey in Fahrenheit 9/11.
The reason is evident enough. Moore's aim is to depict Bush as a liar and a fool. There are quite a few Brits and Australians who (unfairly) believe that Blair and Howard are liars. But very few would regard either prime minister as a fool. Since one aim of Fahrenheit 9/11 is to demonstrate, in Pomeranz's interpretation, that the US President is a "hedonistic buffoon", then the case is more readily made if the evidently non-foolish Blair and Howard are omitted from Moore's story.

Fahrenheit 9/11 is a clever film and Moore is a gifted and, at times, amusing storyteller. Yet, many of the film's conspiracy theories have been discredited by the Senate Intelligence Committee report and the 9/11 Commission Report. For example, Bush was not directly involved in allowing members of the bin Laden family to leave the US soon after the September 11 attacks. That decision was actually taken by Richard Clarke who, as his book Against All Enemies (Free Press, 2004) demonstrates, is one of Bush's severest critics.

Other issues involve opinion only. For example, it was Moore's decision to devote some two hours to attacking Bush without making even one sustained criticism of Saddam's murderous regime. To the presenters of At the Movies, this does not warrant a criticism. Others may take a different view.

Fahrenheit 9/11 is designed to have an impact on the US presidential election. Certainly it will appeal to Bush-haters. But it could be counter-productive.

Moore's blunt message, told to a grieving mother, that her son died in vain might backfire politically and assist the Bush campaign. In many parts of contemporary America, Moore's insensitive self-indulgence will earn no stars at all."


If your boss is keen on the facts, get him to produce his facts for his argument of support for Moore and Bowling for Columbine? Not just Moores heavily disjointed, often un-researched and often totally untrue perspective! Remembeing of course to keep it all a friendly chat ;)
way Down Under
Western Australia.