Author Topic: advice on small handgun (Read 1898 times)

shooter · « **on:** February 16, 2005, 06:50:02 PM »

Guys,need some advice.My girlfriend and i almost bought it this past sunday in the Kingston,NY mall shooting.The nut was right behind us following us down the halls in the hudson valey mall firing a ak47 knockoff.Bullets were flying everywhere,over 50 rounds fired ! only two people struck.I ran into the three army recruiters and sent them around the corner after the shooter (i was unarmed and with girlfriend).One of them was shot in the leg and may loose it.My girlfriend panicked and tried dragging us into a store,i had none of it and dragged her around the corner trying to put something besides glass between us and the shooter.She ended up having a panic attack and stopped ! i had to drag her out forcefully but we made it and turned alot of others away from the path of the shooter.Now the question.All i have is a large glock 10mm which i hunt and carry afield.I need advice on a small but still fairly powerful handgun which is easy to conceal in a ankle holster or under in pocket or small of back.Maybe even one of those tee-shirts with the holster built in.Any and all advice welcome and thanks in advance.
shooter

Paul S · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2005, 10:53:36 PM »

:cry: I'm so sorry to hear about the ordeal you and your girlfriend where put through. I just put my order in today for a Kel-tec .380. All this winter I have been carrying my full size Kimber .45 but come summer I like to wear a t shirt and shorts in the SW MO heat and the Kimber gets a bit hard to hide in light summer clothes. The Kel-tec is a very small gun and should be much easier to hide, and I have read a lot of good things about them on this site.
Paul

jgalar · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2005, 01:39:11 AM »

A little bigger, but more powerfull the Kel-tec P-11 in 9mm could also be considered.

http://www.kel-tec.com/products.htm

dave375hh · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2005, 01:57:28 AM »

Running and putting obstacles between yourself and the shooter was the propper response. Shooting it out with any handgun against an AK is a recipe for becoming landfil. That said my choice of a small CCW gun is a Kel-Tec P-3AT when concealing the Glock mod32 would be difficult. These two have served all my needs as far as CCW is concerned. If you want a bigger cal. The Taurus PT 145 would be worth a look.

knight0334 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2005, 02:39:59 AM »

As mentioned above, the Kel Tec's are highly recommended. Other options would be: the Bersa Thunder .380, 9mm and .45-all of which are affordable. The Walther PPK series is another fine choice, but rather expensive. Then you have the subcompact Glocks too, all are proven to be fine weapons-but tend to be a lil "thick" for some people's likings.

...heck, we could go on and on listing them.

Name a price range first, then we can go from there.

Mikey · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2005, 04:31:24 AM »

shooter - ya did the right thing. Lots of people panic and freeze when the bullets start flyin' and you either have to knock them out and drag them or just drag them by the danged hair to get them to safety. You need to give your girlfriend a crash course in bullet resistant obstacles.

Now, as for your small handgun - forget the small stuff, few of them have the power necessary to reach out beyond 'face to face' distance and slow or stop someone. I have 380s and 22s and the like but unless I am right next to the target neither have suffiecient power to reach out there. The next caliber up the pike is the 38 spl - and if that is loaded with heavy bullets (my favorite is the 200 gn swc) it will do the trick a lot farther out than many would think.

This is not to advocate a snub-nose 38 against an AK-47, by any means. But, if your back is to the wall and you have no place to run and that sob is advancing on you, you are in much better shape than you would be with a kal-tec or some other pocket rocket.

If what you carry now is a full size 10mm and that's too big for concelaed carry for you, go with a Commander sized semi-auto in 45, 10mm, 9x23mm or 38 Super. Either of those cartridges will save your bacon all the way out to 50 yds or better if you are in one of those situations you can not extracate yourself from. My two favorites are the 45 Commander and my 7.62x25mm Tokarev. HTH. Mikey.

animal · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2005, 05:00:11 AM »

Shooter,
The Sig P 239 is a great combination of portability, shootability and reliability. It is a very good defense piece.
Good Luck

44 Man · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2005, 10:02:35 AM »

For a small, concealable, but still very shootable gun, a lightwt. 38 is hard to beat. I have several. I have never sat and tried to shoot groups with my S&W snub other than to verify that it shot to the sights. At 7 yds it grouped 3 shots into an inch. Then I switched to the 100 yd 12" gong and rang that every shot till the cylinder was dry. It will do the job at extended ranges if necessary. Doesn't sound like the shooter was aiming at all or there would have been 30 dead bodies. That's one good thing tv has done for us. These people think if they just point a gun at someone, they are going to hit them. A cool man with an accurate handgun could have ended the problem quickly. But then you have to realize that you were in New York and you would have had the fight of your life in court to stay out of jail yourself. You did the right thing. Put hard cover between you and the shooter and get as many people out as possible. 44 Man

rockbilly · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2005, 03:30:29 PM »

Smart move to run like hell when the AK started barking. If you don't like/can't carry a big bore, go with the S&W 60-9 .357. Only draw back, it's a five shot, small and powerful with a +p or .357 load.

But remember, facing an AK with a pistol of any type is foolish. Run like hell and only shoot back only if necessary. I learned a long time ago, stand and fight only when it's in your favor.

shooter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2005, 11:08:00 PM »

Guys,nobody mentioned the kahr pm9094.Think i have that right.Its smaller than my old glock 26 and only slightly bigger than a beretta tomcat or NAA 380.Anybody carry one of these ?
Thanks for the kind words...We're both having trouble sleeping .
Shooter

williamlayton · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2005, 11:11:23 PM »

MIKEY--
If ya got tha BIG hammer handy ya might oughta get it out fer me. In other words , I guess I am askin fer it.
This here FN5.7x28 with a twenty round clip is a good choice. In this particular scenario it would fit the bill.
Blessings

Dave in WV · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2005, 03:02:22 AM »

I may get hammered for this but even if you had a firearm, taking cover should be your first action if offered. You responce was right on all the way. Going up against a rifle with a handgun is an uphill fight since the rifle has the usually has a power and accuracy (under stress) advantage. My wife has a Taurus snub nose ultralite that's a dandy. I have a Kel-Tec P32. The Kel-Tec .380 wasn't out when I bought the P32.

Savage · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2005, 03:14:14 AM »

Hi William!
You bought a WHAT? Is amminution available for that thing? I'd suspect overpenetration would be a real concern, and it might be a bit large for an ankle holster. :biggun:
Savage

williamlayton · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2005, 06:43:24 AM »

Savage-
I got enough fer a small fight right now. Over penetration is not a concern, that was a good selling point fer me.
If I wore it for an ankle weapon I would probably walk a little stiff legged.e :grin:
Blessings

strider72 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2005, 08:30:54 AM »

Good use of your martial arts running skills there... was the shooter using his shoulder to fire the AK out of curiousity?? Or was he doing it Hollywood style from the hip?

Ron T. · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2005, 12:18:04 PM »

Got my CCW Permit and a Kel-Tec P3AT (.380 ACP) last April... and have been carrying the little Kel-Tec since. I've turned into a "fan" of this sweet little pistol.

The P3AT Kel-Tec .380 is "THE" perfect concealed carry handgun... small (3x5x¾ inches), light (10 oz. loaded with 7 rounds), yet powerful enough to be a reasonably good self-defense weapon with +P hollow-points that yield 221 ft/lbs of muzzle energy compared to a 158 grain lead bullet in a .38 Special that yields 235 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.

You did the RIGHT thing to put some solid objects and some distance between you and the shooter with the AK. As others have said, NO HANDGUN is a reasonable defense against a center-fire rifle, especially a semi-auto center-fire rifle!!! :roll:

However, in a "pinch" and ONLY if you have NO OTHER CHOICE, get in a defensive position (behind solid cover if possible) in a small room or a space with limited access where the rifle won't have as great an advantage... then you have a better chance with a handgun vs. a rifle.

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

drdougrx · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2005, 04:05:11 AM »

Hi,

Here's my 2cents. I like a small 9 of some kind. I like the small SW or sig, a single stack is prefered. Much as I like my 380s and 38s...a small 9 seems right for me.

Here's what I like just for instance:
http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293614&item=831344&sw_activeTab=1

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293614&item=831345&sw_activeTab=1

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293614&item=831354&sw_activeTab=1

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293614&item=831376&sw_activeTab=1

http://www.sigarms.com/products/classiccompactsize-models.asp?product_id=212

http://www.sigarms.com/products/classicpersonalsize-models.asp?product_id=43

I use a blued version of the SW3913.

Good Luck.

Doug

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2005, 04:24:06 AM »

I CCW with a S&W 640 2" .357 mag. The action on it out of the box felt like it was a mistake. It must have come thru the custom shop. Smooth and light DA only.

Rusty <><

shooter · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2005, 04:58:03 PM »

The shooter was shooting from the hip only.It now appears obvious he really didnt intend on killing anyone or it would have been very easy.It looks like he was trying to do a "suicide by cop" but the boys from Dick's sporting Goods snuck up behind him and took him down when he went empty.still not sure the status of the young army reservist i sent the shooters way.His family is keeping quiet.
im leaning towards the kark pm9.
shooter

TScottO · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2005, 05:39:39 PM »

For a small gun I carry a S-W M60-7 Lady Smith in 38 Special. Nice little gun and the perfect size for an ankle holster. I also carry a 640 on regular ocasion. Those are what I put my money in for small carry. I would also look at the S-W PD series. Those are real snazzy as well. I've been looking real hard for a S-W 696 44 Special but haven't had any luck.

For a small auto I like the Para CCO.

Be Safe,
Scott

shooter · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2005, 06:35:45 PM »

To all those who responded...thank you.I'll keep you posted on my upcoming selection.
Shooter

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2005, 06:44:22 PM »

Quote from: shooter

To all those who responded...thank you.I'll keep you posted on my upcoming selection.
Shooter

I like my Colt Defender in 45ACP. Works great and conceals easily.

But I also would not want to shoot it out with someone with an AK47. :shock: :eek:

Wolfe · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2005, 07:04:53 PM »

Bought a kahr mk9 elite 98 today. It is one fine looking and shooting pistol. I honestly shot it better than my sig 239. However I'd recommend either. I really don't care for the grip on a pm9, it feels like an axe handle to me. ymmv tho.

Mikey · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2005, 12:17:32 PM »

williamlayton - if that FN will hit to point of aim at 25 yds then it is capable of doing the job. That 5.7 caliber is nothing to squeak at. Mikey.

chris s · « **Reply #24 on:** February 21, 2005, 06:14:27 PM »

The Kahr pm9 is an excellent choice. Its light and small enough to carry , use gold dots 124 +p (they seem to work), This gun can group at 25 yards

shooter · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2005, 05:15:24 PM »

Well,the Jury is in,i made my choice.Today i bought a Kahr 4044.I believe its the smallest 40 cal. made today.Black on black.Polymer body and black stainless steel slide with their DLC coating. 5 inches long, 4 high and .90 thick,weighs 15 oz unloaded 1.9 oz more loaded.Paid $599 locally.I could have got it $70 cheaper thru a differant shop but it would take alot longer and it was 45 min away.So,tomorrow i'll be packing in a ankle holster to start.We'll see how that works. I think this will be a kicker if i use middle to hot loads.May start with mild loads.I'm told to burn 200 rounds thru it 1st to loosen it up.So i plan to throw some cheap ammo thru it for this purpose.I've had a glock 26 and 27 as well as a NAA in 380 and a Beretta Tomcat in 380.This little guy is considerably smaller than the Glock 26 And not a heck of alot bigger than the NAA.Thanks for the input guys,we'll keep you posted but im hoping i survived my only mass shooting in my lifetime.
Shooter

tbull55 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2005, 05:05:46 AM »

Kel-Tec P11 (9mm) in a fobus holster gets my vote!!

Tbull55

bgjohn · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2005, 06:51:45 AM »

The first rule in a gun battle is to have one. Get a S&W 442 revolver. A hammerless 38 special. It's light and will disappear in your pocket. Surprisingly accurate too.
JM :-)

williamlayton · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2005, 01:42:28 PM »

Sounds like ya got a dude there. Enjoy, well thisun and the others to follow----always happens!
Blessings

drdougrx · « **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2005, 03:05:20 PM »

Congrats....Rule#1...have a gun!