Author Topic: 6TCU for deer ? (Read 1800 times)

hylander · « **on:** February 18, 2005, 02:09:57 PM »

I am looking to get a deer barrel for my Contender.
Prefer 10-12"
What are your thoughts on the 6TCU and where do I get one.
My other choices would be in no particular order.
.357 Mag
.357 Max
.44 Mag, although I already I have a SBH .44 Mag

Reed1911 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:43:18 PM »

If it's just going to be for deer, I think the 6.5 or 7 TCU would be better.
As for 357 Mag vs. Max, go for the Max you can always shoot mag ammo in if needed. The 6mm TCU is sufficent for Whitetails in my opinion provided the shots are kept in reasonable range.

Steve P · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2005, 03:16:33 PM »

I live out west where it's blacktails and muleys. I would not want to shoot one with a 6tcu. My 6.5 tcu would be marginal. the 7 tcu works ok. From your list, if we were picking a deer cartridge, i would go for the 357max or the 44. I'm not saying any of them wont kill a deer. I'm saying I'm old, fat, and lazy. After I hit one, I want it to drop so I don't have to walk that far.

Good Luck in your choice.

Steve

fyrepowrx · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2005, 03:26:04 PM »

Dang it Steve; i thought i had a monopoly on the "old/fat/lazy" thing. guess it does make me feel better to know i aint the only one.. saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "The Older I Get, The better I Was..." :lol:

Have to agree, although i shoot scrawny Oklhoma whitetails i dont like that whole "follow the blood trail for 2 miles" idea. With a perfect shot a 6 TCU is just fine. Problem is i dont ever seem to get that magical "perfect shot" opportunity. i would stay with something beefier... 6.5's are great but the bullet selection is not so great.. 7 TCU would be good, 7x 30 maybe a bit better.

handirifle · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2005, 07:52:15 PM »

Sorry for the ignorance, but are the TCU's all based on the 223 case?

mrcasull · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2005, 12:40:33 AM »

I have killed alot of whitetailes with alot of different calibers. Yes the 6 TCU works with deer with the 80 single shot pistol bullet I shot a spike with it 2 years ago the shot was 165 yards right behind the on side front shouler exited middle of the ribs on the off side. The exit hole was the size of a quarter the lungs were jelly the deer went 23 yards and dropped. This deer looked as though it was shot with a 7 JDJ and 120 grain speer hot core. That same year I used my 6.5 TCU and 100 grain ballistic tips on a doe. The shot was 89 yards and mirror performance of the 6 TCU. Just so you know the 6 is a 15" and the 6.5 is a 10". I will say it does not matter what you hit the deer with you still have to make the shot count.
I have 2 more stories that I will be sending SSK so there might be some great reading coming up!

yukiginger · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2005, 07:37:35 AM »

The 6.8 Remington SPC is what I am waiting for, in stainless super 14. This should be a popular cartridge for which there should be plentiful factory ammunition (I'm speculating). Research it - it seems just the ticket for an excellent deer cartridge, with low recoil and good accuracy.

Mark

Lone Star · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2005, 03:03:29 PM »

The real problem with the 6TCU is that 10" barrel (BTW yes, all TCU cartridges use .223 cases). Velocity will be way down over a 15" tube, on the order of ca. 200 fps. That makes a huge difference in bullet performance, particularly at over 100 yards. If course if you shot one at 122 yards, or 103 yards, it might still work. :roll:

There is no reason to handicap yourself with a marginal cartridge when you can choose a much more suitable one. In that short barrel length you'd be 'way ahead with a 7-30 Waters or .a 30-30 or a .300 Whisper, which are easy to obtain compared to the 6TCU. The former have significantlly more power and will kill better with less-than-perfect shots - meaning not directly broadside, or a bit further away than you'd like.

I always get a charge out of those who seem to take a perverse pride in using inadequate tools for the job, particularly those who have the right tools available to them. When I was younger I shot five Kodiak Island deer with six rounds from my .223 on one hunt, and all were recovered just fine. That was a stunt I will not repeat again, not because the .223 didn't work, but because it was a handicap which the deer, not me, would suffer from if anything went wrong. I no longer buy the tired line that "it doesn't matter what you use as long as you put the bullet in the right place". That is, IMO, an ignorant anachronism which is better forgotten. Good shooting is always the prerequsite for a hunter - we all know that.

mrcasull · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2005, 02:29:27 AM »

You obviously have dislikes with the 6 TCU. I, however, do not have dislikes anymore. I once thought that the 6 mm's were inadequate, but that was until I used them. I personally take great pride in my shooting abilities and I also give great respect to whitetail deer. That is one reason why I no longer use my longbow. My longbow will launch a hunting arrow at 215 fps. But I can not garauntee where my arrow will land. That is the reason why I use my compound bows instead. Where I am from, people who go out west in search of Elk insist on being able to shoot at least 80 yards. When you are starting a hunting arrow at 300 fps, what is it going to be at the end of 80 yards when it is supposed to go through the vitals of the Elk? Now, that is an inadequate proposition in my opinion.

Let's just say for a moment, we pick the 6 TCU and the 7-30 Waters, both using their single shot pistol bullet. At the muzzle, at 100 yards and at 200 yards, the 6 TCU is down a mear 200 foot pounds of energy. That hardly is a reason to bash that particular caliber. I am condoning the use of smaller calibers with whitetails in mind when you use the proper bullets and are able to hit what you're aiming at. Because, let's face it, the 6 TCU has more energy than a .44 magnum does.

So, if using the 6 mm and the 80 grain single shot pistol bullet on whitetail deer makes me a bad person then so be it. Because, I can promise you that I will continue to be a bad person in the future...I WILL be using my 6 mm. I DO have the proper bullets and I DO have the ability to place the bullet correctly.

bgjohn · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2005, 02:57:21 AM »

What makes me laugh is people who think the 300/221 (Whisper) is so great. I'll take the 6mm TCU or 6.5 TCU over the whisper any day. If you want a 30 caliber get a 30 Herrett.
JM

Moe · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2005, 08:18:12 AM »

the Herrett. It is at least 200fps faster that the whisper. Brass lasts a long time, its rimmed. it does a job.

C A Plater · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2005, 10:36:41 AM »

Quote from: hylander

I am looking to get a deer barrel for my Contender.
Prefer 10-12"
What are your thoughts on the 6TCU and where do I get one.
My other choices would be in no particular order.
.357 Mag
.357 Max
.44 Mag, although I already I have a SBH .44 Mag

I am not a fan of any 6mm for deer and prefer .25 and up due to better big game bullet selection. I do have a 11" 6.5 tcu but have yet to take a deer with it. I chronographed 120 grain bullets at the 2000 fps mark and given a chance, I would use this load on deer. The .357 Max. is a great round for deer. You can get a regular .357 magnum barrel and have it rechambered for the maximum when you feel like it. Getting one is relatively easy from the T/C custom shop or my preference from Bullberry or OTT.

Bug · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2005, 03:31:26 PM »

I just LOVE a good discussion!!! :-D :-D :-D
I'm gonna have to hang with the correct bullet for the velocity, AND the correct placement bunch. I'm not gonna denigrate anyone's pet. If you find you have trouble with 6mm bullets bouncin' off stuff, why it's your duty to use somethin larger. At least 'til you're satisfied, then maybe a few sizes bigger, just to be sure!

Oddly enough, I had no problems with a 6mm TCU - wish I still HAD it

. I did a swap for a 7mm TCU - bigger is better, right?- and have been really disappointed with bullet performance. I haven't dropped a one DRT. Sure, none went more than 50 yards or so, but Dang! I've tried most brands of the 120s and none had the whomp (technical term) that the 6mm seemed to have. And I haven't been able to retrieve a single 7mm bullet. At least I did get one, now and then, with the 6mm. 'Course I ain't gettin the 6mm's velocity, either. :?
This is only one man's opinion, and likely worth everything you paid. I shoot a .30-30, cause it has a larger combustion chamber than either the Whisper or the Herrett. I have a .357 Herrett, and not a Max, for the same reason. Well, that and 'cause ya don't get to form cases for the Max :roll:
The only downside I can see on the 6mm TCU is that smaller deer - 150-175 pounds, or so - is about it's upper limit. Oh yeah, that and the fact the factory barrels are gettin' so darn scarce! :wink:

HL · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:50:30 AM »

Most of the deer I have taken were with the 6mm-223 which is not much different that the TCU.

I have always used the speer 80gr. spitzer and never had a problem. I took deer from 40 yards to 250 yards with this round and never lost one and most dropped within 20 yards from where they were hit.

80 gr. bullets can easily reach 2750 - 2800fps using AA2230 or H335.

pastorp · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2005, 07:01:40 PM »

Hl, exactly what is the difference between the 6mm223 and the 6mmtcu. I thought it was the same round just named different by barrel makers to be different or not infringe on inventors rights. Regards, Byron

HL · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2005, 01:36:08 AM »

6mm-223 is simply the 223 necked up to 6mm with the basically the same shoulder angle, where the TCU is more of an AI cartridge, I believe the TCU is somewhere around 40-45degree shoulder where the 6mm-223 is at 30 degrees or what the parent 223 case is.

Some say the TCU can produce faster velocities that the 6mm-223, but I have yet to see it. I've shot with several that had the TCU, but they were not able to get the velocities I could, using the same powder and load. I can't explain it, because I would think with the increase (just a little) in powder capacity, you would think the TCU would have greater velocities.

REgardless, I don't think you will find a more accurate round, except for maybe the 7TCU. I don't have one, but friend that do, get superb accuracy.

Good Shooting.

Lone Star · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2005, 03:01:09 AM »

Quote

So, if using the 6 mm and the 80 grain single shot pistol bullet on whitetail deer makes me a bad person then so be it.

Such a drama queen over things which were never said! Again, I gotta laugh. I never implied you, or anyone else, was a "bad person", just that I am amused by the use of marginal cartridges by folks who can and do own more powerful cartridges. You are assuming far too much whan you claim to know what cartridges I like or dislike. I'm sorry you failed to read and understand what I wrote. I'll try harder to be more clear in the future.

You failed to understand that the original poster wanted a short barrel, not a 15" barrel. This puts the sainted 6TCU down in velocity significantly over your experience, by ca. 300 fps. This means that the 6TCU has about 940 fpe at the muzzle, and 723 fpe at 100 yards, using Hornady data. The 7-30 starts a 120 at about the same velocity in a 10" barrel, giving 1410 fpe at the muzzle and 1130 fpe at 100 yards. How does this diference total 200 fpe? Must be that new math....

Your double standard is showing. You are critical of those who use an arrow to kill game, saying it is inadequate in your experience. Yet thousands of American hunters enjoy archery hunting every year. Are they "bad persons" by your definition? You obviously have issues with sharp objects....

Bottom line, I don't care what floats your boat concerning hunting equipment, and I'm happy you're happy with the 6TCU. I was answering an inexperienced handgun hunter's specific question about cartridge choices in a short barrel. We don't know the size of deer he hunts so it may be prudent to recommend more power than what a 90 lb whitetail requires. We don't know his skills with a handgun in the field, so a bit more power is again a prudent choice.

I've used both the .30 Herrett and the .300 Whisper on deer and had a lot of trouble telling ANY difference between them at 100 yards with the Nosler 125 BTip. Both killed Kodiak Island deer just fine. I prefer the Herrett for sentimental reasons, it was my first T/C barrel purchased in 1975. But the .300 does at 100 yards what the Herrett does at 150 yards, so used appropriately they are both eminently suitable. Gotta love the posters who haven't hunter with either and try to compare apples and oranges... or handguns and sharp rocks. :wink:

bgjohn · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2005, 03:49:02 AM »

Everybody is sooo sensitive on this post. There are people hunting deer with a 223, so how could a 6mm TCU be any worse? You find fault with undepowered cartridges. I find fault with "Magnums". Everybody wants a magnum except me. Personnaly I'd prefer a 6.5 or 7mm TCU for deer but... :-)
JM

hylander · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2005, 03:57:58 AM »

Thanks for the replies guy's:
After thinking it over and Reserching it more and reading your replies
I beleive the 6TCU would be a good Deer cartridge on the smaller ones.
However I have jumped ahead of myself as usuall.
My apologies :oops:
I really need a cartridge capable of Deer and Pig, as I will be hunting Pig more than Deer.
I really think I need something more like the .357 Max.
I don't want the Herret's because of the case forming step's.
Plus I would be able to use .357 Mag's for practice.
I already have a .44 SBH and I don't care for the JDJ cartridge's.
Any other Suggestions, more input is alway's appreciated

Bug · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2005, 05:00:20 AM »

WooHoo... "can't touch that"... re: the supposed airing of opinions on each others' choice of cartridges. I just tend to ignore any prickly-sounding posts, and just lift any information I deem useful. Life's too short!
However, Lone Star did bring up a valid point. No one had discussed the size/weight classification. I guess we all naturally looked from our own perspective, there.
Here in East Texas, I'd hazard a SWAG that 90% of the deer taken each year weigh less than 100lb. - some substantially less. So I just didn't stop to consider the 200-300lb. class deer that are fairly common up North. A 6TCU might be a bit light, in that scenario.
As far as a .357 Max for deer & pig, It should work pretty well. Provided, of course, that the right bullet is put in the right place. I have a bit of experience using cast 180gr. bullets on pigs & deer, but from a Mag, not Max, and I haven't retrieved a bullet yet. Nothing dropped at the shot though, except one 100# gilt that I popped between the eyes at about 15 yds from a ladder stand. No animal has gone more than 70-80 yds, but one double-lung hit boar did his going through some of the thickest, meanest, nastiest Yaupon/saw-briar thickets you could imagine. I belly-crawled & slithered for over an hour to get to that one. Fine blood trail, that I followed fairly easily with a mini-maglite. I did shred a goodly bit of camo and skin, though. :-D :-D :-D
Pick your shots, and control your range. Those two things plus enough practice to make constistent FIELD shots a slam-dunk, will make for a good experience. Leave any one of them out, and you are headed for disappointment.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Since deer season, I aquired a .357 Herrett barrel. Been fooling with loads for it lately. Once I'm happy with the accuracy/velocity on that one, they better look out! I'll be bringing a heck of a lot bigger hammer to the party!

flatlander · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2005, 05:04:42 AM »

7-30 Waters. Extra range and plenty of power for deer and hogs.

HL · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2005, 07:34:01 AM »

Even though I would never put my 6mm-223 on the shelf during deer season, I would not use it for Hogs. I've never tried it on hogs, and never will. IMO it is way too light for those.

As stated above the 7-30 Waters of even a 30 caliber would be best for the hogs, but your choice of the 357 Max would be excellent for hogs with the right bullet.

My contender in 300 Savage works great on either deer or hogs.

Best suggestion is to pick a caliber you know will be sufficient for the game you are planning on taking, practice a lot and practice some more and get real good at controlling that firearm, and then get er done in the field.

bgjohn · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2005, 08:24:44 AM »

Get one of each. The 6mm TCU is too neat to pass up. You shoot it and you'll find a use for it.
JM :grin:

mrcasull · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2005, 12:00:26 PM »

Thank you for thinking of me as royalty and letting me sit on this thrown while you bow down to me after you read this...

I think we just need to clarify a few things before I get slammed again...First off, I never said that archery equipment is insufficient. What I said was 80 yard shots at Elk is probably not the best choice with a bow and arrow. I personally take my share of whitetail deer and boars with compound bows. And when it comes to comparing fruit, I was comparing apples to apples (14" versus 15"...a loss of a maximum of 50 fps). 7-30 waters everyone knows you can obtain 2400 fps with a 120 gr. bullet. Yes, we all know that we can jazz it up a little and get a little more velocity but it just isn't safe. With the 2400 fps figure, there is a muzzle energy of 1535 foot pounds and at 200 yards, it's just over 1000 foot pounds of energy. With the 6 TCU at 2800 fps, there is a muzzle energy of just under 1400 foot pounds and at 200 yards, it is 850 foot pounds of energy. So, where I went to school, 1 plus 1 equals 2 and 1000 minus 850 equals 150 foot pounds of energy. :wink: