Contender .44 Mag and Frame Stretching ?

[hylander]

I seem to be hearing of some frames stretching when shooting
the .44 Mag :?
What is this all about, I was thinking of maybe getting a .44 in 10-12"
but not if the frame can't take it.
Yes I will be shooting hot loads
24.0 of H-110 under a 240gr. SJSP
And maybe some hot heavy bullets, 310 gr.
Or should I go with a 357-44 B&D and call it a day.
What say you !

[jvs]

It is my understanding that Thompson never offered barrels in the higher velocity rifle loads because of a frame stretching problem.  I suppose it comes down the pounds of pressure.  Calibers like 30-06 and other 'long action' calibers produce pressures more than a Contender was made to take and could lead to stretching of the frame.   Which is why Thompson offered only so many rifle calibers for the Contender.  How that translates to lower pressure short action rifle or pistol calibers is anybodys guess.  

I own a Contender fo over 20 years, and even though I have not shot it much, I tend to hear alot of pro's and con's at the range.

[C A Plater]

I've not heard this about the .44 magnum barrels but .444 Marlin and a few others pushing the frame beyond it's limits.  The only problem I had with .44 magnum barrels is the recoil tended to make shooting sessions short with maximum power loads.   For shooting heavy (300 gr.+)  bullets I went to the .45 Colt and more modest velocities.

[Bug]

I'm gonna side with Courtney on this one, and say that recoil is gonna be the limiting factor here. Full-house loads with 240gr & up bullets let you know they went off. Moreso with the 300gr+. I really don't think you're going to shoot enough safe loads in a .44 Mag to stretch a Contender frame. I sure haven't.
 Not that you couldn't stretch, or even blow up, a Contender frame with a .44... Just not with anywhere near sensible loads, especially ones listed in the manuals. The suggested pressure ceiling for Contenders is governed by case head size and backthrust. I.e., it would be somewhat higher for the .223 case than the .44/.45 size. I wanna say this is a bit below 44K, but don't quote me, and for gosh sakes don't take it as Gospel. There are some references around where this information is available. Maybe someone else will chime in with the suitable links.

Half_inch_group: I've often heard of the "higher velocity rifle loads", but have never had the good fortune to run across any. Do you reckon you, or one of your pards might look some up, and post the manufacturer and part numbers here, so's I could order some? Thanks!

[jvs]

Half_inch_group: I've often heard of the "higher velocity rifle loads", but have never had the good fortune to run across any. Do you reckon you, or one of your pards might look some up, and post the manufacturer and part numbers here, so's I could order some? Thanks!

You are asking me to try to remember stuff that is probably 20 years ago.  Going back quite a few years other calibers were available from other vendors for the Contender that weren't available from Thompson.  Back then you could buy alot of calibers that the Contender wasn't built for, .30-06 for example.  There were other 'long action' calibers also.  Before Thompson saw a need for a loading manual, the common practice was to shoot factory loads.  Now try to imagine what a full factory .30-06 load can do.  As I understood it, the frame can stretch to a point that when you pull the trigger the firing pin won't contact the primer with enough force to cap the round, at which point the gun is useless.  

When frame stretching started to become an apparent problem, those barrels didn't last long on the market for safety and warranty reasons.   A big push came about for a loading manual back then that was specific for the Contender so there could be a suitable guide for pressures.  If you exceed the pressure guidelines in the manual, stretching starts with the first shot.  Since the Contender does not have a receiver it is best that you don't exceed pressure guidelines in the manual.  My guess is that if you happen to run into an older Contender loading manual, possibly a  first edition, the calibers may be listed.

Who offered those calibers and what the part numbers were......I don't recall.  

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

[southern utah]

T/C offers the 44 mag in their lineup. There fore they would stand behind the use of any 44 mag using sami specs in loading.  Shoot away and if there is apparent problem they should stand behing their product. You will find higher recoil and velocity with the Contender than a revolver.

[BCB]

Phewwww, I don't know who would chamber a 30-06 for a Contender!!!  Never heard of such a thing.
I have my doubts that a 44 Magnum could stretch a frame.  I shoot the 445 SM from mine and it hasn't ruined the frame yet and I shoot some 310 grain cast from it that are most uncomfortable to shoot.  Doubt it will.
I don't know what type of accuracy you are looking for, but that is the reason my 44 Magnum became a 445 SM.  The chamber in my 44 Magnum was so long that I could almost chamber the 445 SM round!  Good-luck...BCB

[Lone Star]

The Contender frame is plenty strong for factory-level .44 Magnum loads.  Anyone who says that the .44 Mag damages frames either knows nothing about the subject, or used excessive pressure loads in it.

It is not a matter of recoil or bullet weight, but of chamber pressure.  It is simple force - the maximum inside cross-sectional area of the case times the chamber pressure equals the force applied to the frame:

0.145sq.in x 36,000 psi = 5220 pounds of force against the frame.  

Raise the pressure to the ca. 40,000 psi of the .444 Marlin with its slightly larger interior case diameter and you can exceed the elastic limits of the Contender frame, stretching it.

[BCB]

Lone Star,
You are indeed correct.  I certainly didn't mean to indicate that recoil is a direct measure of chamber pressure if that is how my previous post reads.  I suspect the 445 SM works at a bit more chamber pressure than the 44 Magnum--maybe not though!
I guess the good example of recoil not directly related to chamber pressure would be the .223 Remington and the 45-70.  Both are Contender cartridges, but we certainly know which one has the greatest recoil...BCB