Author Topic: State Police Shoot Man  (Read 2127 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline NYH1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2005, 08:24:57 AM »
Quote from: Quigley_Sharps
Watch for a ban on Chainsaw's now near you.

I guess I'd better go get my "Stihl MS 260 Pro" before they start banning them! :shock:
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Offline Brett

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5148
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2005, 04:48:48 AM »
I'ld like to know if the perp was using one of those body armor piercing, cop killer chains or just an ordinary wood cutting chain on his saw?  

Seriously, the trouble with these types of stories is that you really had to be there to know what actually went down and if there was another way to resolve it.

But let me ask you this... If there was some drunken nut loose in your neighborhood with a chain saw at 4:00 am would you want the cops to just "go away" when they determined he was not the reason for the initial call?  Uh...  excuse us,  We were looking for a heart attack victim, since your not him and he doesn't appear to be around we will be going now. Many of your neighbors should be getting up and heading off to work or to the school bus stop soon so have fun. We will come back later when the call really is about you.   :roll:

I'm of the opinion that you reap what you sow.  If you go around threatening peoples lives or safety be prepared to eat lead.  :D
Life memberships:  <><, NRA, BASS, NAFC

Offline tomaldridge

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 98
Think you can shoot? Try this at the range next time...
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2005, 06:08:59 AM »
Next time you go to the range...............

Run 25 yards to put your target up, then run back to the firing line and shoot immediately....  Have a friend yell at you for an undetermined amount of time.  When the friend yells "FIRE", draw and put 2 rounds in the target....  Then try it with flashing lights and loud music....  Then try it in the dark............  Bet you're not as good a shooter as you thought.

Offline JPSaxMan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1779
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2005, 06:16:16 AM »
Amen, amen. Adrenaline and other factors probably will effect shooting ability. No, they DO effect shooting ability. Although a hunter has a surge of adrenaline every time he shoots a deer, and manages to shoot dead-on, a different kind of adrenaline is surging through you when you're under attack, or defending your home, or whatever. More of a fearful adrenaline as opposed to that of an excited adrenaline.  :D
JP

Attorney: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in
his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?

Doctor: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

Offline old06

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2005, 05:39:54 PM »
Did the saw have a standard gas tank to a hi capacity gas tank ? They may start to put the ban on the bigger tanks and only let LEO and LOGGERS have them.
Psalm 16

Offline old06

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2005, 03:13:10 AM »
Chain-saw incident


State cops defend shooting Exclusive

Amid criticism over death of William Henkle, trooper tells what was done and why.

By DAVID WEISS dweiss@leader.net


WILKES-BARRE – Ever since state and local police unleashed 39 shots at a chain saw-wielding man outside a Forty Fort home, police have heard rumblings from the public, questioning their actions:

Why didn’ta the officers use a taser gun instead of pumping 17 bullets into 40-year-old William Henkle?

Why didn’t police back off and discuss a better plan of attack?

And why not wait for the saw to run out of gas?

The answer, state police Capt. Kenneth Hill said, to each is simple:

The officers did not have tasers.

There was no time to talk strategy.

And, it’s impossible to wait when a man charges you with a chain saw.

Henkle had a “seriously maladjusted” thought process and charged “full bore” at a trooper before the officers could take other steps to calm the early morning situation on Feb. 21, Hill said.

One trooper, Michael Hartzel, was struck on the shoulder, back and buttocks with the saw, but escaped with minor injuries before Henkle was hit with the flurry of shots.

In hindsight, Hill, the commander of the Wyoming barracks, can’t think of any other way police could have defused the seven- to 12-minute standoff, he said.

Hill said Hartzel hoped to sneak around Henkle and tackle him before gunfire erupted. But Henkle eyed Hartzel, locked his sights on the trooper, and charged the 17-year veteran less than one minute after Hartzel arrived at the scene.

“But for the grace of God, (Hartzel) would be dead. He should be dead,” Hill said. “A chain saw could decapitate someone in a half second to a second, sever a spinal cord in an instant.”

Hill said he would have difficulty asking Hartzel: “Why didn’t you wait for the chain saw to run out of gas while it’s running up and down your back?”

Hill and state Trooper Tom Kelly met with the Times Leader Friday to further explain the incident that unfolded in the quaint River Street neighborhood at 4:45 a.m.

Police initially responded to Henkle’s home at 378 River St. with medics for a report of a person suffering a heart attack.

Upon arrival, the medics found no emergency. The Forty Fort officer returned to his cruiser to contact 911 and make sure he had the correct address.

A short time later, the police and medics heard the chain saw. They encountered Henkle in a driveway alongside the home and saw him drinking from a bottle. Police later found a bottle of rum in the area, but they are unsure if it was Henkle’s. Police have not yet received Henkle’s toxicology reports, but said they have since learned he had a history of mental illness.

The officer returned to his vehicle to call for backup while the medics locked themselves inside Henkle’s home.

Nine additional officers arrived at the home within five to 10 minutes, positioning their vehicles to act as a barricade, Hill said.

Henkle shouted at the officers and told them his neighbors were trying to kill him, Hill said.

The officers, as they arrived, formed a semicircle around Henkle, standing about 25 to 30 feet away, leaving Henkle an opening to retreat to his home, Hill said.

The officers urged Henkle to drop the saw.

“They’re talking to him,” he said. “He decided to challenge and engage.”

Henkle responded by bombarding the officers with obscenities and telling them they would have to shoot him to get the saw.

Nothing the officers said calmed Henkle.

“You could have had the top negotiators … I don’t believe it would have been any more successful,” Hill said.

Henkle repeatedly stepped toward various officers during the standoff, preventing them from discussing a detailed plan of attack, Hill said.

At one point, officers used pepper spray.

Henkle responded, “That s--- doesn’t bother me,” Hill said.

“He’d get closer, they’d back up,” Hill said.

One officer even promised to put his gun in his holster if Henkle dropped the saw, Hill said. The officer holstered his weapon. Henkle ignored the officer and kept the chain saw.

At some points, Hill conceded, Henkle was not threatening officers. But those moments did not last very long.

When Hartzel arrived, he assumed a position at the end of the semicircle, Hill said. His plan was to sneak around Henkle and tackle him.

But Henkle locked on to Hartzel and charged, from about 30 feet away.

Hartzel shouted for Henkle to stop and drop the saw.

Henkle ignored him and got to within 10 feet of Hartzel.

The trooper, backpedaling, fired three or four shots, before turning away from Henkle.

When he turned, Henkle cut Hartzel’s uniform with the saw as Hartzel continued firing over his shoulder.

Kelly said Hartzel was extremely lucky not to be severely sliced. The blade cut through Hartzel’s clothing, including his T-shirt, but did not deeply puncture his skin, Kelly said.

Once Hartzel retreated, Henkle darted toward another officer while the other officers opened fire.

Police shot Henkle numerous times and he fell to the ground before continuing his assault.

“The only thing he said was, ‘Ouch,’” Hill said.

A total of five officers, including three troopers equipped with .40-caliber pistols and hollow point bullets, fired 39 shots at Henkle.

He was struck 17 times in various parts of the body, including the chest, arms, ankle and hip. He even continued to hold the saw after bullets broke both of his arms, Hill said.

Investigators believe the incident was “suicide by cop.” Luzerne District Attorney David Lupas has said the officers were justified in the shooting.

But police have still faced criticism.

Since the incident, people have questioned whether police could have acted differently.

Kelly said police considered using batons, but they could not get close enough to hit Henkle.

Hill and Kelly said a taser gun might have been effective. But none of the officers was equipped with the weapon.

There also are concerns about lawsuits stemming from the use of taser guns, Kelly and Hill said.

Hill, who has been Wyoming’s commander for 13 months, wonders if the harsh public reaction would have been the same had Hartzel been killed.

Or had a neighbor, medic, or Henkle’s mother been hurt by Henkle.

In this case, the officers stood their ground in not letting Henkle wildly roam through the neighborhood or into homes to hurt anyone, Hill said.

If Henkle never charged at Hartzel, police would have stayed there “all night” trying to negotiate, Hill said.

“These guys didn’t let anyone else get hurt,” Hill said.

“I don’t see anything the officers could have done differently.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Weiss, a Times Leader staff writer, may be reached at 831-7397............................................................................................I grew up in this part of Pa. and read several local paper's and still have some relatives living in the area and though everyone would like the police version
Psalm 16

Offline JPSaxMan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1779
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2005, 04:20:38 AM »
Well, how bout that? It was justifiable? WOW!!  :)  I really can't believe the people who have sympathy/empathy for Hinkle. I mean come on, I'd hope if my son was in the troopers position he'd have defended himself at all costs. But that's me.  :D
JP

Attorney: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in
his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?

Doctor: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

Offline NYH1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2005, 04:27:00 AM »
Quote from: Fishman029
I mean come on, I'd hope if my son was in the troopers position he'd have defended himself at all costs. But that's me.  :D

ME TOO! :D
"ROLL TIDE". . .Back To Back. . .Three In The Last Four Years "GO GIANTS"  "YANKEES"

Offline old06

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2005, 01:52:30 AM »
WILKES-BARRE - WILKES-BARRE – A toxicology report shows William Henkle was significantly intoxicated when police shot and killed him on River Street in Forty Fort, according to the Luzerne County Coroner’s office.

State police said the 40-year-old Henkle used a chain saw to attack a state trooper outside Henkle’s home in the early morning hours of Feb. 21.

The coroner’s office said Henkle had a blood-alcohol level four times 0.08 percent, the level at which an adult driver in Pennsylvania is considered intoxicated.

State troopers and local police officers fired 39 shots at Henkle. A total of 17 bullets struck the man, killing him.

Police have said they believed hinkle was drinking alcohol. They also believed he suffered from mental health issues.

lucerne County District Attorney David lupus said the officers were justified in using deadly force.                                                                Well I guess this is the final chapter to this I seen it in the on line paper
Psalm 16

Offline JPSaxMan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1779
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2005, 10:03:02 AM »
Well, ya'll missed my second topic "State Police shoot another man" relating to this shooting as well as others. Check it out. I think it's had almost 60 views without response :cry: .  :D
JP

Attorney: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in
his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?

Doctor: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

Offline Brett

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5148
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2005, 11:54:26 AM »
Quote from: Fishman029
Well, ya'll missed my second topic "State Police shoot another man" relating to this shooting as well as others. Check it out. I think it's had almost 60 views without response :cry: .  :D


Fishman,
So what is the point that you are trying to make?  Are you trying to show that State Troopers are trigger happy?  Or that there are a bunch of nuts out there just begging to get shot?   What kind of response are you looking for?
Life memberships:  <><, NRA, BASS, NAFC

Offline JPSaxMan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1779
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2005, 12:12:43 PM »
Brett,

I'm just looking for opinions. In my opinion, I think troopers act as anybody would and therefore do not hold them against their actions. I just find it odd how many shootings there have been. If you check out that thread you will see there have been quite a few. And most cops say they haven't pulled their gun and fired it at a person to kill them. These guys seem to pull them out quite a bit. No, I don't think the troopers are at fault.  :D
JP

Attorney: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in
his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?

Doctor: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

Offline old06

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2005, 03:02:28 PM »
Fishman029 I seen the other one and read a few things about it on line as things would have it he sounds like he was out trying to get shot by the police. By the way I went to school in Hazleton and it kind of sad to see all the places I grew up in being in the news like this
Psalm 16

Offline Brett

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5148
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2005, 03:13:23 AM »
Quote from: Fishman029
Brett,

I'm just looking for opinions. In my opinion, I think troopers act as anybody would and therefore do not hold them against their actions. I just find it odd how many shootings there have been. If you check out that thread you will see there have been quite a few. And most cops say they haven't pulled their gun and fired it at a person to kill them. These guys seem to pull them out quite a bit. No, I don't think the troopers are at fault.  :D


Okay, here is my  :money: .  This kind of thing tends to breed more of the same.  What I mean by that is the local news media bombards the airwaves and newspapers with a story like this, especially in a small town where nothing much usually happens.  Now every nut job out there sees these peoples names and faces all over the place and some of them start to think Gee... look at that, he/she is famous! or gee... I would have put up a better fight and taken more cops with me!  next thing you know another one is trying to get his name in the paper. Doesn't seem to matter to them that they will be dead and are never going to see it themselves, just so long as someone sees their name on the news or in the papers.  

I respect the job cops have to do.  And Personally, I would not want the job.  Sure there are a few who are idiots and should not be in the position they are in, but that is true of any profession. A soldier in a war theater is always on red alert, his senses are always tuned in because there is always an eminent  threat.  A cop may go for days, weeks, months or even years without facing a life threatening situation and become lackadaisical, oblivious to the danger.  Then all of a sudden the $#!% hits the fan one day and his mind is not in 'the zone' and I think emotions like surprise and fear take control instead of what training he has had.  This explains how a group of cops can expend 30+ rounds of ammo and only hit their target 17 times.

So there you have it, an opinion for what it's worth. :lol:
Life memberships:  <><, NRA, BASS, NAFC

Offline JPSaxMan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1779
  • Gender: Male
State Police Shoot Man
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2005, 03:37:38 AM »
Brett,

I think you hit the nail on the head with the scenario here. The troopers I'm sure haven't had anything like this in a while and only reacted out of their own instincts. They did their jobs. They protected and served the public. Take care.  :D
JP

Attorney: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in
his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?

Doctor: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding