HARDNESS OF 15 bhn bulles

[barber]

Would .44 mag. 262 bullets at 15 BHN expand all? Would they be hard enough for black bear and/or elk (out of a revolver)? Thanks.

[jhalcott]

barber ,if 262 is the weight of those bullets they should do for bear and elk as long as YOU can do your part.  I don't under stand the desire to have a bullet so hard it might break in half when hitting bone.Wheel weight usually runs around BHN 15 and is good for 90 percent of your hunting needs.Heavier rather than harder is a better way to go with hunting bullets in MY opinion. I have got complete penetration on large deer with wheel weight 250 grain 44 magnum at 75 or more yards with a revolver.Practice enough that you can hit a six inch target each shot .That will be your max range.

[unclenick]

Expansion isn't simply a function of hardness.  Your bullet material needs adequate ductility (ability to deform without breaking http://www.engineersedge.com/material_science/ductility.htm) as well as adequate velocity and correct nose form to achieve expansion.  Hollow point copper bullets expand and I’ve seen copper BHN numbers given as high as 135.  A search on MatWeb puts casting alloys of 90:10 Cu:Zn (typical gilding metal) at more like BHN 56. Jackets not annealed will be work-hardened to a higher Brinnel number than 56.  I don’t have a number for pure soft copper.  It may be down around 40 or so?

Wheel weight metal seems to do well unless you get into very cold conditions, in which case it has too much antimony to be ductile at lower temperatures and can shatter on bone.  See my earlier exchange with Veral on low antimony alloys.  I have just acquired a quantity of pure lead and will be experimenting with this and will post my results as feedback to my exchange with Veral, but not until later in the season; I need some range time to check out results.  In general, however, you would want something softer and more ductile than wheel weight metal for expansion.

Another good question to ask is whether you want expansion?  The consistent reports of the killing ability of Veral’s wide meplat designs make me question the popular automatic assumption that expansion is desirable for game bullets?  Unless you need to ensure against over-penetration in the area where you hunt or need a higher ballistic coefficient out to point of impact (as in taking game at long range), the advantage is unclear.

Nick

[barber]

I asked the question, because I was wondering whether these bullets would expand and slow the penitration,    I am using Dry Creek  262 gr, .44 Keith and Dry Creek 173 gr .357  hardcast  bullets.  I'm not knowledgeable about  how hard  or soft cast bullets need to be. I thank you for the replies.

[Veral]

For you and anyone else who is concerned about NOT getting expansion, test your bullets at full power from close range, so velocity is at it highest, in water filled plastic jugs.  If you line up at least 4 one gallon jugs and your bullet will go through all with enough punch left to penetrate into, or completely through a piece of wood placed behind the jugs, it will do at least as well in game up to elk with side shots, deer and bear from any angle.

If the bullets you buy don't have a nice wide meplat you won't get good kills.    The first two  jugs will explode quite violently if you have adaquate meplat and velocity to get good killing punch.  Whether LBT made the mold or not, that's the simple criteria for getting good game results.  Anyone can test it out easily, and have fun doing it.