Caliber for hunting whitetail Deer and black

[coyote trapper1928]

Hi:

  Need suggestions for a rifle to hunt Whitetail Deer and Black Bear. Would really like to find a caliber that is not as loud as a 30-06. Is there a caliber that would be good for both Deer and Black Bear and equal the sound level of a 20 gauge shotgun with deer slugs?

Thanks,

coyote trapper1928

[Somerled]

You may want to look at the .358 Winchester. There aren't many rifles ready-made in that chambering. The Browning BLR is the only one I can think of. But there have been a lot of them made up with short bolt actions such as the Remington 700.

[Don Fischer]

From your question I would guess your not a handloader so that leaves out some cartridge's I might suggest. You want something with less noise than the 30-06. Go to something on the 308 case or the 7x57 case. I'm not sure you'll be able to tell a lot of difference, but a machine that measure's noise could.

The choices are many and most suggestion's are usually based on personal opinion, they're not necessarily wrong, just different and sometime's confessing.

I am a fan of 25 cal's but I don't recommend them for deer and black bear's. The problem being lack of what I would call sufficient bullet's. What you need is a smaller case than the 30-06 but still the ability to deliver a suitable bullet at suitable velocity to perntrate the hide, maybe fairly heavy bone's, heavy muscle tissue and still maintain enough energy to destroy the vital's of the BEAR!

So stick to 6.5 or heavier cartridge's and choose bullet's in mid range and up for caliber. In 6.5's a 129 gr load is bottom line 140 gr better. The choice in 6.5 is the 260 rem. The 6.5x55 is a great cvartridge but avaliablity may be a problem.

For your purposes, I couldn't recommend any 270 cal, cases to big for what you want but, the 270 win is a fine cartridge.

In 7mm's, the 7x57 is one of my favorite's but avaliablity become's a problem again and down loaded ammo to accommodate older action's. The 7mm-08 will run pretty close to it tho and is a good choice. Use a 140 gr or heavier bullet.

The 308 win is a can't loose cartridge and with a 165 gar bullet, a real jack of all trades.

Somebody already mentioned the 358 win but it's not all that common when looking for ammunition. probally a fine cartridge introduced to a public that want's 3000 fps from everything.

Remember in the end it's not about caliber, it's about bullet construction and placement.

[wink_man]

You don't mention if you are looking for a used gun, or a new gun, or the type of action you prefer, but one cartridge you might want to take a hard look at is the .300 savage, I think it would pretty well fit into your specifications. The only company that MIGHT be offering this chamber in a new gun might be Ruger, but you could probably find one in the used market.
Sincerely,
 Garry

[RaySendero]

Get you a bolt action rifle chambered in 270 Winchester.

[Mac11700]

Hi:

  Need suggestions for a rifle to hunt Whitetail Deer and Black Bear. Would really like to find a caliber that is not as loud as a 30-06. Is there a caliber that would be good for both Deer and Black Bear and equal the sound level of a 20 gauge shotgun with deer slugs?

Thanks,

coyote trapper1928

If your looking for something not as loud as a 06'...I have to ask "why"...if your worried about ear protection...you should wear some sort of protection...no-matter what cartridge you settle on.,....

A-30-30 loaded with 170 grain Noslers Partition flat points...should handle any blackie within range...and we all know the ole 30-30 has taken more deer than one can count either 150 grainers or 170 grainers......and it isn't as loud as a hot loaded 30-06 as well...same for a 35 Remington too...they may be somewhat louder...but nowhere as loud...

Mac

[beemanbeme]

Hey, I like the idea of the 300 Savage.  Classic cartridge that will get it done.  Mine is the Remington Classic (from last year I think) and there might be a few NIB still floating around.  If you handload, you would have the advantage of all of the diverse .308 bullets to choose from.  
If not that, then a 7-08 would do what you need.

[poncaguy]

7mm-08

[Redhawk1]

.308, or 7mm08.  

[kombi1976]

6.5x55, 7mm-08 or preferably a 7x57.
Whatever the case make sure you use a decent bullet weight for the bear, at least 150gn.
But aside of that, all you need to do is place your shot.

[tanoose]

Coyote  where do you hunt? If your shots would be long range anything from 243 to the 06 would be fine If you hunt NY'S Adirondacks the 30/30 to 45/70 would be fine. The 35 remington would also be a great choice

[Don Fischer]

The 243 for a long range bear rifle?

[2ndtimer]

The 243 for a long range bear rifle?

I second the question!  I think the better deer/black bear cartridges start at .257 Roberts and go up from there.  Frankly, I prefer the .260 Remington or 6.5x55 as a more reliable bear penetrator, and both offer very mild recoil yet can sling that 140 gr bullet at sufficient velocity to anchor even large animals. Naturally, anything bigger or faster will get the job done at least as well.  Lots of options, depends on your budget and recoil tolerance.

[Mikey]

coyote trapper - this is exactly what the 30-30 was made for.  They don't call that caliber the North American Whitetail rilfe for nothing.  That caliber has probably taken more whitetail than any other caliber going and I doubt you would have any problems with your average black bear.  

I have two 30-30s, and a bunch of other lever actions in different calibers but that 30-30 almost always goes with me for whitetail and I would not feel disadvantaged at all if a black bear were to come along.

I prefer the 170 grain bullets in both my 30-30s.  HTH.  Mikey.

[coyote trapper1928]

Mikey:

  Thanks for the reply. I thought about the 30-30, because the ammo would be easy to find just about anywhere. Where I am , the Conservation department is thinking of allowing rifles in some of the shotgun only areas of the state. The areas that I would be hunting are heavily wooded with not many open fields. In the woods, I think the longest shot would be under 150 yards. More likely under 100 yards. As for Black Bear, there have been quite a few reported and some good sized bears too. There was 2 reports  in 2003 and 2004 of Black Bear that was estimated by the Conservation Department to be weighing 450 to 500 pounds that was roaming the woods in the area that would be open to rifle hunting if the regulation is changed. I can't see using a magnum powered rifle if the area that I would be hunting would have shots under 150 yards.

Do you know if anyone makes a lever action 30-30 with a higher grade of walnut stock? Most of the 30-30's that I have seen, have very plain Walnut stocks on them . It would be nice if I could find a  lever action 30-30 with a fancy grade of Walnut stock like Browning has for their lever action rifles.

Thanks.

coyote trapper1928

[Lawdog]

coyote trapper1928,

Don't use anything smaller than a 6.5 Swede for any Black Bear.  A bigger fan of the Quarter Bores you will not find but although I have taken a Black Bear with my .25-06 I wouldn't recommend it for that purpose.  Go with the 6.5 Swede, 7mm-08 or the .308 and you won't go wrong.  Lawdog
 

[savageT]

coyette trapper,
I'm a little concerned you aren't telling us enough about what you want to do and where you'll be doing it?

First off, why is it that you have a problem with the noise level of a 30-06?  What happened that gave you the impression that it is any louder than a 30-30 or 7-08, or I don't know, pick one?  Did you fire a rifle that had a carbine length barrel or perhaps stood next to one with a muzzle break?  Most 30 caliber rifles can be pretty much the same noise level using factory loadings.

Next, issue:  If you are spending the day at a range sighting in a gun, usually you should be wearing earplugs and/or earmuffs, so that the noise will not affect your hearing and lead to a bad case of flinching.  When hunting, I would assume that one shot, one follow up, if necessary, is about all you need and the noise factor shouldn't be a factor in the rush of the moment.

Finally, pick what you decide fits your comfort level whether it's a short, light, lever-action or bolt action or maybe an auto-loader???  It's important to get something YOU feel comfortable with and use it...........practice with it, and don't let it intimidate you!  If you like lever-actions, there are Winchesters, Marlins, Brownings and used Savage M99's in .300Savage or .308Win. Enjoy the hunt.
Good Luck my friend!

Jim

[tanoose]

Well everyone i have spoken with has told me that the 243 is a fine whietail cartridge . And its my opinion that anything good for deer is good for most black bears except maybe for very large ones . and the 243 has the same energy at 200 yards that the 30/30 has at 100 yards so i would say long range in this situation is 200 yards. If by lone range he means 300 to 400 yards then he will have to settle for the noise level of the 30/06.

[Ramrod]

Hi:

  Need suggestions for a rifle to hunt Whitetail Deer and Black Bear. Would really like to find a caliber that is not as loud as a 30-06. Is there a caliber that would be good for both Deer and Black Bear and equal the sound level of a 20 gauge shotgun with deer slugs?

Thanks,

coyote trapper1928

A 12 gauge with slugs is not alot louder. :lol: As far as rifles go, to my ears, the bigger bores have a lower pitched boom, compared to the sharp crack of a high velocity rifle. Decible wise there is probably not much difference, but the big slow woods guns don't seem to hurt the ears as much. I think you should at least consider guns like the .35 Rem., .44 mag, .444 marlin, and .45-70. Another thing, barrel lenght makes a BIG difference in sound level.

[coyote trapper1928]

savageT:

 If the DEC changes the regulations to allow hunting Deer and Bear with rifles in the Southern Zone, then I would most likely be hunting in the Southern part of Cattaraugus County NY.  The noise factor came about when I took my hunter training course about 20 years ago. The instructor shot a 30-06 with 220 grain bullets to give the class an example of what a centerfire rifle is like. Could not believe the noise!! :eek: .  He also fired the .223, and a 20 gauge with deer slugs. The 20 gauge is about as loud a noise that I could stand.

 On the difference styles of rifles, I like the marlin 336 in the 30-30 . I have seen the stainless steel version of it in their catalog and that one looks real nice. If I had my choice, though, I would prefer the Savage Model 99 in a .300 Savage. I read in a previous post that Savage was making a limited production run of the Model 99. Do you have any information on it?

Thanks,

coyote trapper1928

[Lawdog]

Well everyone i have spoken with has told me that the 243 is a fine whietail cartridge . And its my opinion that anything good for deer is good for most black bears except maybe for very large ones . and the 243 has the same energy at 200 yards that the 30/30 has at 100 yards so i would say long range in this situation is 200 yards. If by lone range he means 300 to 400 yards then he will have to settle for the noise level of the 30/06.

There is a BIG difference between the skeletal structure of a 200 lb. Whitetail Deer and a 200 lb. Black Bear. The Black Bear is much tougher with thicker mussel mass and heavier bones.   The .243 should be considered the minimum for use on deer.  Remember the rifle in your hands is to one you will have to use if that bear is only wounded.  You want to depend on that small .243 to stop a bear at close quarters?  Not me.  I’d rather put my faith in 170 gr. .30-30 loads first.  Lawdog
 

[coyote trapper1928]

Lawdog:

 I have decided to go with the 30-30 . I think I will check out the marlin 336 in the Stainless steel version. I agree about the 30-30 being better than a .243. The Black bears in my part of NYS have been estimated to weigh upwards of 450 to 500 pounds. I think they may be coming from PA.  I would not want to try hunting a bear that weighs 500 pounds with a .243.  :eek:

thanks,

coyote trapper1928

[tanoose]

I have no experience with the 243 i was just stating  what i have heard from some people that do have experience. I do own a 243 but plan to use it on woodchucks .Many of them stated that they have takemn bear at the 200 yard range with no problem. I myself for close range would use a 30/30. But i will tell you this , a 500 pound black bear is far from a 200 pounder.  And for these guys my choice is a 30 caliber 180 grain bullet from 2500 fps and above. I recently  bought myself a new rifle in 308 winchester, most of my experience is with the 30/06 and the 45/70 All three are great  black bear calbers. My Dad on the other hand would reccommend the 35 remington in a lever action. And you wont find an experienced bear hunter out there telling you that you are overgunned by using a 300 win mag. or .338 (talking about thoise 500 pounders) The 30/30 i do have some experience with and your choice is fine for deer and black bear . Good luck with it Tanoose

[kenscot]

I would go with a 7mm -08 in fact I did

[longwalker]

I would look toward a 44 magnum. In a carbine it would give you the power you need a lightweight firearm and somewhat less noise than a 30-06. Bullet size is there, for deer look at a 240 HP. for bear maybe a softpoint. 44 is a great 100 yard caliber. Black bears are woods animals long shots usually don't exist, at least where I grew up in PA.they didn't.

longwalker

[Don Fischer]

One thing is painfully obvious here, there sure are a lot of different cartridges around that work.

[Dave in WV]

coyote trapper1928, there is a big difference between hearing a shot at the range and when you're hunting using standard cartridges (non magnum) with no muzzle brake. I have never had a noise problem when shooting any of my center fire rifles while hunting. I always wear hearing protection shooting my center fire handguns even while hunting. If the instructor was shooting at a range with a roof over the shooting line the noise is much worse than in the woods.

[jro45]

I wear ear protection not enought to cut out all the sound but enought to protect my ears. I would use the 30/06 with ear protection.

[jdt48653]

like ramrod said,a 444 marlin would work just fine!

[Jimi]

Ruger No.1 in .45-70