Author Topic: Rimfires at the range: Question (Read 1121 times)

OMCHamlin · « **on:** February 26, 2005, 01:52:35 PM »

Folks, I'd like your opinions on an incident that happened to me a weekend or two ago. I was at our local club's outdoor 100 yd range, zeroing my new .22 lr T/C Contender Carbine at 50 yds. To be specific, our range is set up as follows: At 100 yds we have a 10 ft berm, and a covered bench at the firing line for rifles. This bench is also equipped with a rack of tires that we are required to shoot through which acts as a noise baffle. As I said, I'm zeroing my 22 in at 50 yds, shooting at a target stapled to a 2' x 3' cardboard box set on the ground. I've been shooting for 10-15 minutes and passing the time with my shooting buddies when the newly elected club vice president comes over and explains to me and my buddies how dangerous this is as the rounds could ricochet off of the ground and careen over the berm, killing someone up to a mile & a quarter away. The ground between the bench and the 100 yd berm was soft mud with no standing water or ice. I think he was over reacting grossly but I stopped shooting. Also, there is in excess of 4-500 yds of dense woods behind the berm. I'd like your opinions on the safety factor in this if any of you would care to share them with me. If I'm wrong, tell me, I'd like to think of myself as an experienced and safe shooter, but not one that's too old to learn something new, if needed.

Keith L · « **Reply #1 on:** February 26, 2005, 02:12:47 PM »

It is tough to say without seeing the lay of the land, but if you surveyed the situation and felt it was safe it most likely was. Some times folks with new titles feel the need to take charge. I wouldn't let it bug you much. If that .22 bounced off the ground and thru the woods it wouldn't have energy left at the 1.5 mile mark.

OMCHamlin · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2005, 02:21:05 PM »

Thanks. I guess my main concern is wether a 22 lr is very prone to ricochet in soft ground at an oblique angle (as in a round passing through the target to impact the level ground between the 50yd zone and the 100 yd berm).
Chris

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2005, 02:21:56 PM »

Our range rules prohibit any round from hitting the ground anywhere, they must impact the berm at the end of the range. If anyone is shooting and their rounds hit the ground after passing through the target instead of impacting the back berm, the range is immediately closed and either shooter position or frame height is changed. If it continues to happen, the offending shooter is asked to leave. There's no room for ricochets on a safe range.

jh45gun · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2005, 08:19:04 PM »

Any flat surface or even not a flat surface ( rocks ect) bullets can ricochet. Heck the soft ground could have a rock sitting there that a bullet can glance off. I think the range officer was concerned about a safety concern. Most ranges have rules inplace for a reason and if you do not follow them they get a bit upset which is understandable as most all are insured and a accident may make them pay prohibitive insurance cost or cause them to be dropped. Better to be safe than sorry.

OMCHamlin · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2005, 12:19:40 AM »

OK, I've learned something new (or relearned something that I had long forgotten). I had always heard "never shoot at standing water or any other hard surface". I believed because it was soft ground it posed no risk.
Thank you!
Chris

htrjv · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2005, 06:34:09 AM »

We have the same problems here in upstate New York. The liability issues have taken a forefront standing with ALL ranges here. One of the things some ranges have done, with similiar layouts, as yours, is to construct target stands out of 2 x 3 lumber. These stands raise your target so your bullets would impact the berm at the same point, as if you had placed your target on the 100 yard backstop. They are easy to construct, light, and portable. If you're handy, you could score some points with the Board and Officers by offering to make some for the members to use. 2 x 3 lumber is fairly cheap, and you can use cardboard stapled across the uprights, so the members can tack, tape, or staple their target at the right height/position. As a side note, your can get free cardboard from any shop that sells bicycles. It saves them the cost of disposing of the cardboard (bicycle boxes), and it offers a free source of supplies for the club. Food for thought. Joe

Shorty · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2005, 10:24:58 AM »

'Reminds me of something I saw on TV many years ago. I think it was in Bavaria. They would place targets on a floating platform out on a lake. The object was to hit the target on the first "bounce" off the water in front of the target. I hope that they had a boating restricted area! :roll: :wink:

victorcharlie · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2005, 12:27:26 PM »

My rifle club has stakes that mark the closest distance a target on the ground can be placed. The club had a round get out of the range and struck someone 1600 yards down range roofing a house.

The club was sued, and settled out of court for an undisclosed amount, but now has added baffles, and restrictions such as the above.

I have no problem with the new rules, and much prefer the range stay open than closed.

As the city encroaches on the range, the time is growing short, and if another round gets away it may well speed the closing.

be safe and enjoy your club.

B_Koes · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2005, 10:50:04 AM »

Quote from: victorcharlie

My rifle club has stakes that mark the closest distance a target on the ground can be placed. The club had a round get out of the range and struck someone 1600 yards down range roofing a house.

The club was sued, and settled out of court for an undisclosed amount, but now has added baffles, and restrictions such as the above.

I have no problem with the new rules, and much prefer the range stay open than closed.

As the city encroaches on the range, the time is growing short, and if another round gets away it may well speed the closing.

be safe and enjoy your club.

I think that many clubs are endangered by "the next one that gets away." I've heard the president of more than one local club talking about astronomical insurance rates and threats by the local government about the dangers to the surrounding residents. Sometimes the threat only needs to be a perceived one in order to make our lives miserable. Sometimes it is better to go to the extra trouble and maintain the place to shoot.

As for a stray .22 killing someone 2000 yards away, well I'll believe that one when one smacks me in the head. Still, the common theme of exhibiting prudence beyond the norm should be observed.

ironglow · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2005, 05:29:51 PM »

If you and other rimfire shooters pay dues at the club...there should be a 50 yd berm set up for you...only right...

Nearby me there is a local club that have their rifle ranges with berms at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yds...and their rod & gun club dues are $12 last I knew.

I shoot in my own woods, so I am not up to date compltely as to dues..

Yikes...must be fun starting to sight in a new rimfire ( or any rifle) starting at 100 yds...