Author Topic: Saiga help (Read 1334 times)

hardertr · « **on:** February 28, 2005, 08:10:21 PM »

I planned on buying a Saiga in 308 this week, but I checked out EAA's website and am having second thoughts. They say they will not be be importing any more Saigas OR repair parts.

Should I reconsider??

Second question.... now that the Saiga 100 is out in 30-06 (and possibly 270), are these worth considering with the $450 price tag?

Thanks in advance,
Terry

Longcruise · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2005, 07:56:56 AM »

The only thing I know about SAIGAs is what I learned from a family members 7.62X39. Any SKS will shoot better than it does

1911crazy · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2005, 11:35:25 AM »

First the sks has always been a tad more accurate than an AK47. I'm not sure how accurate the 7.62x39 saiga is but my saiga 16" barreled 308win is pretty accurate at about 40yds so far. I haven't benchrested it yet at 100yds but off hand i can surely pulverize what i aim at. The saiga synthetic stock spits out the 308 round like no other rifle. We have hammered my new saiga with many different shooters on two occasions now and It takes a licking and keeps on ticking just like an AK47 would which it is. There is a new importer for the saiga line of rifles in Kentucky I'll post the address when i look it up again. I hope they do a better job than EAA did with importing the whole saiga line of rifles and the model 100 line of saiga hunting rifles too. I've been looking forward to an AK47 semi-auto that shoots 270win and 30-06 too. You just can't match the Russian IHMASH quality they all have chromelined barrels so we can send any kind of ammo down the pipe surplus or new ammo with no worry wether its corrosvie or not. The gas piston appears to be chromed too. The saiga 308 OTD was $307 its most likely the best semi-auto for the buck. I don't think there is a gun on the market that will match it even the other surplus guns don't spit out the 308 round like this gun does. Its definitely going hunting with me as a second gun in my stand. BigBill

BTW; After seeing how the Russian Ihmash Saiga 308 w/16" barrel performed i went back to the shop and purchased the 308 w/22" barrel too.

There is a Saiga forum too; http://forum.Saiga_12.com/

The new saiga importer is;..Russian American Armory Company...............
....................................... President; Homer VanFleet.............................
....................................... Office; Breckenridge lane...............................
....................................... Suite; #204..................................................
....................................... Louisville, Ky. 40220 USA...............................
....................................... Ph. # 502-499-0852......................................
....................................... Fax;#502-499-0843......................................
....................................... Email; HVanfleet@aol.com .............................

I hope in the near future they make the model 100 in 300win. mag. and 338win. mag. and they offer the saiga synthetic stock in 7.62x54 caliber too.

Lets face it nothing manufactured in the US can match the reliability, dependability and quality of an AK47 if the sand fleas had an airforce and armor it would be a different war heck there still kicking our @sses a piece at atime anyway. Watching this war going makes me think what if we ever went up against the russians with their technology against our technology what would happen then? Heck they already have a weapon to stop our M1 abrams tank. Does anyone really win and what do we win just more people in another country who depend on us for our money/support in the end. Lets hope it never happens.

txpete · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2005, 03:21:06 PM »

if they make one in 7.62X54R I might give one a try.

pete

His lordship. · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2005, 03:21:20 PM »

I once had a Saiga in 7.62 X 39. I thought it was a decent rifle, the accuracy was better than my Romanian Ak, and the fit and finish machining was superior too.

I traded it for ammo as the plastic stock would pinch my whiskers if I did not shave closely the night before I went to the range, and the stock butt plate was too narrow and gave me occasional bruises. It would have been nice if I could have put on an aftermarket wood stock, but it did not exist.

I also noticed that the hammer was putting on more wear in the area where the bolt body hits it, compared to my Romanian with the USA made parts, I suspect that the Russian Saiga is not the same in quality metallurgically speaking with those two parts.

I would like to get another Saiga, but with a different stock, and for a change, in .223, as I already have a Yugo SKS and a Rom. AK-47 in 7.62 X 39.

jh45gun · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2005, 08:09:01 PM »

If you want it buy it for that kind of money and buy a set of parts that you suspect may go bad now while you can get them. You may never need them and if you do you know you have them. Probably a 100 dollar bill would cover the parts and for 400 bucks that is not bad for a semi auto 308 considering the cetme's and some of the other types of that rifle are a crap shoot and a cheap one starts at 300. Jim

1911crazy · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2005, 10:21:59 AM »

I heard on another forum that the hammers on some of the AK's do wear to a point then it stops wearing. Mine shows no wear yet but i do moly my hammers too on all my semi auto's. I don't plan or expect spending anything for parts on my saiga i'm sure the gun will hold up. As far as a Cetme my Cetme is the biggest POS going I would never buy another one. Its in my collection just to have one. The charge handle design sucks and I can't imagine this rifle in battle. My only other choice for a 308 semi auto would be the French MAS 49/56 in 308 I have two that work awesome there not as pretty as my saiga because there old school weapons but they work. As far as the M1a with its cast reciever and SA having quality problems that rules that out too. I refuse to spend $1,200 to $2,700 then send it out to make it accurate thats crazy. Then there is the FN49 Argentine in 308 at $700 but again its a crap shoot to what condition it will be in for $700?? The bottomline is the Saiga is the best buy out there for an AK designed rifle that spits out the 308 round like no other can. My test of it will continue. BigBill

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2005, 08:54:56 AM »

FYI after the fact, there is no forseeable timeline on the importation of the Saiga 100s. If you're considering a 308, get one now if you find a good deal. There's some pretty lousy delays going on between production and importation, and we shouldn't hold our breath on anything coming anytime soon.

That said, I have done a bit of work on the Saiga-308, and a 30-06/270 rifle based on it may in fact be possible with some creative engineering.

1911crazy · « **Reply #8 on:** August 26, 2005, 02:42:11 AM »

I think that Remington really screwed it up for us Saiga owners by buying out the shotgun line and not the other big seller the Saiga line too. Wether we see them or not again imported there are still some great saiga buys out there yet to be had. Even some slightly used ones are starting to show up too that are really cheap too. I wonder whats really hurting the saiga's from being imported again?

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 26, 2005, 08:27:23 AM »

Two things -
1.) Importer red tape. They need a license approved and the usual suspects are sitting on their behinds. Heck, my dealer's been waiting months for his license renewal. He has a real store, not a kitchen table.
2.) Russian business practices. They are VERY fickle and opportunistic. Saigas sell like hotcakes and are worth far more than they cost to make, due to foreign labor costs and exchange rates, and the Russians probably want a bigger slice of the pie. Probably also they aren't as experienced pricing these products properly as they do cost more to make then their standard AK line. Consider that their free market is only a decade and a half old. We've had hundreds of years to learn what they have and develop standards. They very frequently try to change terms after a deal has been made. Also, they've recently gotten a few big foreign military contracts, and have much firmer sales on those than for sporting guns for the US market. They probably also want to drive up demand and prices so that folks will pay more.

Why didn't Remington pick up Saiga along with Baikal? Duh. The Saiga 308 kicks the crap out of the Remington 7400 and the Saiga-12 kicks the crap out of the 1100. The S-308 is usually more accurate than the 7400, insanely more reliable, and will last several times as long as the 7400, and under sustained fire. The S-12 is lighter than the 1100, far far far cheaper, and a model of reliability when the 1100 is anything but.

So Remington would never import Saigas as they are their direct competition.

1911crazy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2005, 01:36:19 AM »

But remington could import the saiga and put their label on it and sell a better rifle than they could manufacture and they would have less problems with quality. I bought a new 1100 once and it took me 3 rifles before i got a good one, 2 of them jammed right out of the box thats sad. Lets face it with a quality made Russian Rifle with its chromed lined bore and chamber your buying a gun thats mean't to be shot not a safe queen as most american hunting rifles end up being. There made to be hammered and for heavy use and they will probably out last our lifetime for sure just look at their AK47's. One saiga can cover plinking and hunting for sure with no problems. The 308win. Saiga with its $307 OTD price tag just can't be beat. When the saiga returns here its going to put the american gun market on its @ss if they offer the whole Russian Izhmash line of sporting rifles. (bolt actions & semi-auto's/ sporters & hunters) While the price maybe a bit higher the better quality gun you will get will be worth it. Lets face it there's no way we could match the quality for the price they sell them for here in the US. Its a fact the Russian ecomomy is in bad shape and they need cash really bad this is why they developed the saiga sporting line of rifles for our market. Its all about getting our american dollars and the russians aren't totally stupid they just haven't learned what their quality products are really worth in the US yet which is good for us but that will soon change.

Longcruise · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2005, 03:12:47 AM »

Quote

Why didn't Remington pick up Saiga along with Baikal? Duh. The Saiga 308 kicks the crap out of the Remington 7400 and the Saiga-12 kicks the crap out of the 1100. The S-308 is usually more accurate than the 7400, insanely more reliable, and will last several times as long as the 7400, and under sustained fire. The S-12 is lighter than the 1100, far far far cheaper, and a model of reliability when the 1100 is anything but.

Im with BigBill, they would be better off if it was them who brought the Saiga line in either under their name or not. If they are such competition, then Rem would be defending their position by owning the Saiga line and scooping the lost profits otherwise reaped by whoever brings in the Saiga line. After all, they will be coming whether by Rem or

My own experience with the Saiga is limited to one rifle so my opinion cannot match that of anybody with extensive experience with them, but that one experience said the Saiga line is junk. Maybe Remington agreed! :grin: Sure, it's reliable, but as far as competing with the Rem semi-auto line, I don't see it happening. Most american hunter/gun buyers are not ready to accept the Saiga AK look even if it was a comparable shooter. I'm sure there are many ready to jump on me and tell me about what great shooters their Saigas are, but I'd have to see a side by side comparison of shooting results with 10 or 15 saigas and rems to convince me.

1911crazy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2005, 04:39:43 AM »

Right now the Russian made Saiga reminds me when the very first Chinese sks was imported. It was passed on more by the word of mouth than if you just went and bought one. Lets face it there was no internet back then. And yes there are die hard american gun owners who still don't have a clue and never seen the sks light let alone will ever see the saiga light also. All you have to do is to shoot a sks or saiga once. I have owned the remington in 30-06 semi-auto and i have to say the saiga is much lighter and just as good it not a tad more accurate. Just being lighter by the end of a long hunting day sure can make the difference too when that 9lb+ rifle becomes a walking stick. To me the Saiga will kick the butt out of anything in its class. The people in Russia at Izhmash when they designed the Saiga sure paid attention to making the saiga accurate too. It already had the best foundation a rifle could have thats its AK47 platform thats known for quality, reliability and dependability. Its a no frills affordable rifle, a cheap game getter and still has the quality that will last a lifetime and thats pretty hard to say nowadays about a remington rifle. I have had some bad experiences with Remington's quality and my saiga has never let me down yet nor do i expect it too. If your looking for a good affordable rifle wether its a plinker or a hunting rifle the Saiga is it. Ya she maybe not as pretty but she sure can shoot and thats what counts. I think the Saiga is the hottest buy on the planet since the very first Chinese sks came here. I can't wait to see the whole Saiga line of rifles for sale here too its a breath of fresh air to our gun market and its going to stir things up for sure and I think its about time its long over do too. With some of the high prices were seeing vs. the quality were getting its time for a change.

Longcruise · « **Reply #13 on:** August 27, 2005, 06:11:11 AM »

I'm not buying into the accuracy thing as far as the Saiga goes. :shock:

Granted, that opinion is based on shooting only one Saiga in 7.62X39. That rifle was easily outshot by five different SKS rifles in the family arsenal, and those sks guns were just everyday sks shooters that would shoot 4 moa at best. The Saiga was a 6 or 7 moa gun

I'm in agreement with you on all your other favorite features of the AK and derivative actions though. And, yes I'd be an owner of and a hunter with an accurate Saiga in .308 provided the sighting equipment was adequate. Thing is, I'm not willing to go out and pay up for a Saiga in .308 just to find out that my original impression of the shooting qualities of the Saiga are correct!! :shock:

BTW, I'm not promoting Remington. I don't own any and can't recall having owned any in the past.

stolivar · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2005, 04:38:19 PM »

I had both the 7.62x39 and the 308 saiga. I had the 22" and 16" 308. All 2 of the 308's would shoot under 2 inches at 100 yards. and the 7.62x39 would do 2.5to 3 inches. I only sold them cause I made a lot more money then when I bought them.

steve

1911crazy · « **Reply #15 on:** August 30, 2005, 01:50:50 AM »

It all depends on what ammo your using too. My chinese norinco paratrooper 16" barrel will shoot 1 1/2" to 2" groups at 100yds and my sks w/20" barrel scoped will shoot under an 1" group at 100yds with chinese norinco ammo. With both guns benchrested. Hand held i can ping small rocks on the berm at 100yds with the paratrooper. I have heard the Saiga in .223 is a tad more accurate using Russian made Barnaul .223 ammo. Like I said the russians sure put more of their efforts into making the saiga's more accurate in their Saiga sporters. And i hope we get to see how good their model 100's are too in 30-06 and 270win. when the import starts up again. You can go to their website and see the hunting rifles they manufacture. If i can buy a saiga that is 1/2 or 1/3 the price of a hunting rifle and its accurate i'm getting a rifle i can plink with, besides hunt with too. It won't sit in the safe for 11 months a year.

go to; www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml

Then look at hunting guns. They have a 9.3 x 64 Tgr rifle which i never heard of too.

I have always had an interest in the series of 9,3mm calibers like the 9,3x57, 9,3x62, (9,3x64) & the 9,3x74. I'm not sure where they fall between our callibers I think the 9,3x62 is a tad under the 338winmag. I wasn't sure wether to post about the 9,3mm here but we have mentioned it before and i'm not sure if anyone else on the modern rifles would even know what it is.

Its just one persons opinion but here's an interesting site;
http://bwanabob.us/allaround.htm

Any thoughts or experience with the 9,3mm's rounds??? Kevin303???

With the AK design being adapted to so many different calibers from a 12ga shotgun all the way to a 9,3x64 is this action limitless as to what size caliber it can handle? I wonder if the saiga will be offered in a 300winmag or 338winmag. in the near future. As i get older the semi-auto sure looks like the way to go for a heavy hitter caliber. I say this because you younger guys just may want to look at a semi-auto if your in the market for a new hunting rifle so you can plan ahead now for when you get old like me.(55) I can still shoot the big bolt action magnums but its tough on my body now I don't shoot them too often. This is why the affordable saiga looks so good to me, its a semi-auto, its short, it has a synthetic all weather stock and its very light to carry in the woods. Its as light as an sks or ak47 and it shoots 308win./9,3mm.

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 13, 2005, 08:55:03 AM »

1.5moa is the typical accuracy of a Saiga 308 by a shooter who can obtain such accuracy from open sites.

1911crazy · « **Reply #17 on:** September 13, 2005, 10:41:37 AM »

The "1.5MOA" sure sounds impressive out of a semi-auto with open sites. It does make me wonder how accurate their bolt action rifles are? Here's a Russian manufacturer who is after our gun market with a "quality product".

There is one guy on another site who is banging a gongs at 400yds++ with his 16" barreled 308win saiga.

Its more accurate than some of the modern guns that are twice the price. I'm waiting to see if next month they import the russsian/saiga "tigr" its the sporter version of the dragunov. I just wonder how much of the russian/izhmash/saiga line will be imported here. I hope to see the new saiga in 7,62x54 also.

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 13, 2005, 09:16:23 PM »

I'm looking forward to the 30-06 myself.

On magnum chamberings, I doubt they will happen because 308 and 30-06 are a significant stretch of the abilities of the AK-100 and required some pretty significant dimensional innovations to even exist. Magnum rounds would ultimately need everything bigger.

The bolt actions of the early century were overdesigned for the 30-06 and 8x57mm, so magnums were a feasible stretch. With the AK, overdesigned for the intermediate 7.62x39mm, full power rounds are about as far as it can be stretched without basically scaling up the whole thing.

1911crazy · « **Reply #19 on:** September 14, 2005, 01:08:06 AM »

They already have the AK magnum platform if you look at the 9.3 X 62 and the "TIGR" reciever it seems to me it will work already. I'm not sure which 9,3mm round is but its just a tad under the 338win.mag. in performance. They are ever so close to building a magnum Saiga. Its just a matter of the recoil spring setup as to wether it needs dual springs with opposite winding or just one stiffer spring. I believe its going to happen in the near future. I like the Model 100's in 30-06 and 270win too. The 9,3mm line of rifles looks interesting too. I always wanted a 9,3mm and the semi-auto would do it for me. After getting my past emails forwarded to Izhmash in Russia suggesting a saiga in 7,62x54r I hope we see one soon too.

A saiga in 7mm rem. mag, 300win. mag, and 338win.mag plus one in 444 or 45/70 on a 410 shotgun platform with a larger diameter barrel/chamber area would do it too. (saiga brush gun)

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 15, 2005, 07:29:16 AM »

I need to push a few numbers to be sure it can work, but I believe a Saiga 410 to 444 Marlin is doable. It's been done in 45-70.

The TIGR receiver is not Saiga at all, but Dragunov, which is a completely different animal.

9.3x62mm Mauser, if that's the round you're referring to, is comparable in pressure and size to the 30-06, not a magnum round. Regardless of the bullet's performance, the length, internal cross sectional area, and pressure are what determine whether a round can be chambered in a given gun.

If you were referring to the 9.3x64mm Brenneke, now we're talking magnum dimensions.

Now looking at the Saiga 100s in 30-06, it looks like they may have divered a little from the regular Saiga platform, so we'll see what else they changed. If the bolt has larger lugs, then magnums might be feasible.

1911crazy · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2005, 09:57:37 AM »

I don't think the saiga 100's can handle the magnum calibers but the Tigr is in 9,3x64 already and it sure sounds doable and i hope they do go to magnum calibers in the Tigr since its very close already. The saiga sporter comes in the 9,3x53 thats a little on the low side for me in power. The family of the 9,3 calibers gets confusing there's 9,3x53, 9,3x57, 9,3x62, 9,3x64 and 9,3x74 I think i got it right??