7.62x39 gonna be .308 bore

[Badnews Bob]

I guess it will be, I wish it wasn't. How well will this shoot surplus? I wanted one to shoot cast out of but be able to just plink with cheap surplus, I know there are a lot of good .308 bullets but I already have a .30-30 and I don't see enuff diff to warrent the purchase. Guess I'll hold out for a .35 whelen or 7.62x54R.

[De41mag]

Bob;

I feel the same way. I think accuracy will suffer with the Mil-Surp stuff.
I'm gald that I told H&R to send my recivier back minus a barrel since it's gonna be .308 dia.
Think I'll sit back and consider what rifle to get next. Am giving the Ultra Varmit in 243 some serious thoughts.

Dennis  

[Deadeye47]

I definately agree...I really don't see the point of the .308 barrel in 7.62 x 39....shooting a .311 bullet in surplus certainly will raise pressures and would certainly become yet another "Stick-o-Matic" barrel for the handi...the 30-30 is a rimmed cartridge that give almost identical performance and no sticking or ejection problems :roll:

[riddleofsteel]

I was afraid of that.

[Jack Ryan]

I won't  buy one if you can't shoot the cheap surplus.

There's no other  reason to want an under powered obsolete cartridge.

[mt3030]

I agree. We need the .311 bore. mt

[Longcruise]

Ok, let's look at the bright side of this.  With a barrel chambered in 7.62X39 with a .308 barrel there will be new re-chambering options :grin:  :grin:

[Robert]

What an idiotic move from NEF.  I have been waiting for them to come out so I could get one for a project rifle in .310.  Nothing good can come from this.  I have heard of people winning matches with .308 ammo in .310 bores.....but a .308 bore with mil-surp ammo is going to get the same constant bashing and bad rep as the Mini30.  Very stupid move.  Recreate an unpopular/innacurate semi-auto rifle, but in a single shot.  Ha Ha...  Do you think the guys at NEF know how to spell D.U.M.M.Y?
  Just another thought...with the rebated rim....an extremely tapered case creating back-thrust, and some of the extremely hot mil-surp ammo...It is not going to be just a question of sending barrels back....I think it is very possible that frames could be ruined from stretching.  The 7.62x39 head-spaces on the shoulder, so it would start to have headspace and misfire problems as the frame begins to stretch and lugs begin to wear. People will be looking for over-size hinge pins like the ***** fix on Contenders to try to tighten them up when they are going.....

[Leftoverdj]

Ease up, folks! 7.62x39's nominal bullet is only .310 and NEF ain't made a barrel as tight as they claim yet. The notion that that little bit of difference will stretch frames is plumb silly. The .280 ain't stretching no frames and it operates at a much higher pressure and has a bigger case head to boot.

The Mini 14 don't shoot all that good no matter what barrel it has and some of the milsurp ammo is plain crappy. That ain't nothing to make judgments on.

Y'all can moan all you wanna, but I'm gonna buy me one and see.

[Longcruise]

Y'all can moan all you wanna, but I'm gonna buy me one and see.

And, if it's not all you expected you can re chamber to 300 savage or 7.5 Swiss or 7.5 french!  Or??  Help me out here! :grin:

[Mac11700]

I really don't understand all the hoopla over the round anyway...heck...most of the fun came with shooting it thru a AK or a SKS...and burning up a few cases of the stuff...but in a single shot??...I guess it's just me...it's not a target round...like some are...it's not really a good hunting round...unless you reload..(even then it's anemic at best)...it's just a plinking round as far as I'm concerned over it...and would have much prefered to see a more viable hunting round brought out...I understand those that have a AK or a SKS may want one...but even if I did...I don't think I would buy one...there just isn't that much going for it in the first place for a handi...since I can get Winchester white box ammo for $3.50 a box for the 223...and it does shoot good out of most Handi's...most of the Wolf ammo doesn't from what I've read here on it...and most of the Mil-Surp ammo doesn't either...so really...what's the point??

As to the 7.62 X 54...it does make a good hunting round...and the 303 Brit can be too...but ammo for them in some areas might be a scarce as hens teeth...but again...if utilizing Mil-Surp ammo for these just as plinkers...is kinda a waste to a-lot of us...since a-lot of us have been asking for the likes of  250-3000 Savage... 257 Roberts...6.5 X 55...any of the PPC cartridges or bench rest cartridges...and even larger calibers ...all staying within the pressure restraints of the action...

I dunno...maybe it will shoot good...maybe it won't...but they won't be able to hardly give them away if they don't...and that worries me some...this was their reason for dropping the 357mag...357 Maximum...35 Whelen..444 Remington...according to them...they didn't sell enough of them...and it makes it harder for them to want to invest in the tooling for "new" calibers to be introduced...if a bunch of folks are clammering for a paticular caliber...I know it's been said before...but you would really think they could run a poll and see what folks really wanted to buy...and ask about bore diameter and such prior to making the plunge...but I don't know if that would work either...Handi-Holics are a strange bunch...they say they all want something...then don't buy it afterwards.. for 1 reason or another ....

Mac

[Leftoverdj]

Y'all can moan all you wanna, but I'm gonna buy me one and see.

And, if it's not all you expected you can re chamber to 300 savage or 7.5 Swiss or 7.5 french!  Or??  Help me out here! :grin:

If I wanted to rechamber, it would be to .308 because I own that reamer. That's not gonna happen because I am primarily a cast bullet shooter and .310-.311 cast is just right in NEF .30 cal barrels.

What is gonna happen is that I will get out to my shop, load some .310 bullets into .308 Win cases and see just what kind of accuracy I get. I should have a report for you in the next few days. I'm not worried about doing this because the Finnish Moison-Nagants had .308 bores and they get shot with Russian ammo having .311-.312 bullets.

[Joel]

Don't even know why NEF is even bothering with the round.  It is, relative to what's out there, a junk cartridge chambered in mainly junk rifles.  I used to sell the SKS's when I worked at the local Feed/grain/sporting goods store; the Norinco's surely were cheap things in all senses of the word.  PA has never allowed semi rifles/pistols for hunting, and there is only a tiny minority in the state who have opposed that....mainly the hi-speed, hi- capacity crowd; and they've been ignored.  The AK/SKS type weapons have been banned from our local Game Commission Shooting Range since they were something of a problem.  Seems the folks that shot them liked to shoot at more than just the targets; any passing bird or small creature became fair game, and they tended to spray cases all over the landscape and then leave the non-reloadable empties just laying all over the place creating a mess.  Since they weren't  hunting weapons  folks who came out there to fire target/ hunting rifles finely got tired of that; along with the Game Commission guys who had to clean up the mess.  30-30's a better cartridge, shoots at the same rate of fire in a Handi, and really isn't all that expensive to shoot.  223 is even cheaper.  Don't know how many 7.62 X 39 reloaders there are out there, but I suspect most use the surplus/FMJ stuff.  As far as using the big D-word when describing NEF's decision to use a .308 bore....I suspect they may have chambered a test rifle or two and fired a round, maybe two, through them ta see what would happen.  Guess not much in the way of bad did, since they're releasing the rifle that way into our lawsuit hungry society.  I doubt if they get great joy out of replacing stretched frames for free, so I'd sort of rest easy on that point.  Now, a .303 Brit sounds like a better idea; them old SMLE's aren't nearly as irritating to bystanders and it's a great hunting cartridge.  Any cases left laying around would be welcome.

[Longcruise]

It is, relative to what's out there, a junk cartridge chambered in mainly junk rifles. I used to sell the SKS's when I worked at the local Feed/grain/sporting goods store; the Norinco's surely were cheap things in all senses of the word.

Gotta disagree wity you Joel.  "cept maybe on the Norincos :grin:   The 7.62X39 is showing up in more and more quality firearms, particularly bolt guns.  The cartridge shoots as good as the launch platform and is IMO an intrinsically accurate cartridge.  Amongst the family members we've got seven SKS laying about in 6 different variations and all shoot in the 3 to 4 moa ball park.  Exactly what they were designed to do and while not precision shooters they do what they do over and over and over without fail.  In thousands of rounds I've fired in the SKS, I've had only one malfunction and that was my own fault for lubing with heavy grease and shooting in subfreezing weather.

I've done some handloads for the SKS using win brass, win primers, H335 and Hornady 123 VMax and they shot with accuracy identical to the Barnaul, Wolf and Silver bear.  That tells me that the "junk" ammo being fired in the sks aks variants is just as accurate as ammo put up in top notch american made components.  I'm betting that the "junk" ammo if fired from a Tikka bolt gun in 7.62X39 would be a tack driver!  It will probably shoot well in the handi too if the barrel comes off in the .311/312 size and if it's in .308 it will be a great handloaders gun.

What PA allows is not a reflection on the value of any firearm or cartridge for hunting but simply a reflection on PA politics.  Got nothing to do with the value of the guns or the cartridge for hunting.  I can tell you that we have used if for hunting and it's an excellent choice.  The 122 HP ammo is good hunting ammo.

Sorry to hear the shooters in your neighborhood are such slobs.  At my club we burn tons of the "junk" ammo in the "junk" guns and have no problem with the area being littered with dead animals or steel cases.  Somehow the shooters and an occasional work party keep the range looking downright photogenic.  I have one word for you to pass on to those overworked game commision guys who are tired of picking up (doing their job!).   MAGNET

[Leftoverdj]

.

I've done some handloads for the SKS using win brass, win primers, H335 and Hornady 123 VMax and they shot with accuracy identical to the Barnaul, Wolf and Silver bear.  That tells me that the "junk" ammo being fired in the sks aks variants is just as accurate as ammo put up in top notch american made components.  I'm betting that the "junk" ammo if fired from a Tikka bolt gun in 7.62X39 would be a tack driver!  It will probably shoot well in the handi too if the barrel comes off in the .311/312 size and if it's in .308 it will be a great handloaders gun.

Sorry, Longcruise. I have a scoped CZ 527. I've tried Wolf, Barnaul, and UMC in it and get groups 2-3 times the size I get with my cast bullet handloads. I have not put any effort in jacketed bullet handloads, but the test target that came with the rifle showed a 3/8" group at 100 meters, seems to be a five shot group, too. At least in my rifle, you ain't gonna drive no tacks with the military style ammo.

The good news is that you can drive some tacks with cast bullets. My best loads run about 5/8" at 50 yards, typically with three or four shots in one hole and a "flyer" a little out. This is with a 159 grain GC pointed bullet moving at 2200 fps, so it's not just some powderpuff target load.

[BrianX]

I shoot the "JUNK" ammo out of my bolt action Ruger & can get one jagged hole at 100 yds. The Ruger also has a .308 bore. Reloading is even better. Try shooting a chuck or Yote with a 110 grn V-Max. The results are awesome for a useless cartridge, :lol:

[JPH45]

OK, I'll venture a jump onto this bandwagon......

Funny, for two years I've heard nothing but "I wish NEF would chamber a barrel in 7.62x39" Now that they've done it, all I'm hearing is "what a bad move, the little Russian in a 308" Whine, Whine, Whine, Need some cheese guys? :grin:    :-D  :grin:  :roll:

My 30-30 has a .310 groove diameter and a 307 bore diameter, and I'll bet DJ is right; that is more common in a Handi barrel than is a 308/300 barrel.

I had a Mini 30 with the 308 bore and it shot 3" groups at 100 yards monotonously with any thing it was fed, the cheap Chinese ammo of the day, and my best handloading efforts. I never got the opportunity to shoot a deer with it, but that wasn't because I didn't take it with me, nor because I thought it anemic. The 7.62x39 is a ballistic twin of the 30-30, care to stack up a pile of 308 Win shot deer next to the pile of 30-30 shot deer?

I think NEF chambering the little Russian is a great idea, and fills exactly the gap everybody wanted it for, something to shoot that cheap mil surp ammo in.

So quit your whinin' and get out and buy one and support your favorite rifle maker. If you hold true to your word and buy the rifle you whined so for, it'll increase the odds they will offer something else you've been pining for. Otherwise they just might get the idea that it is better to think of the company first and choose the Henry Ford method....."You can get it in any color you want, so long as it's black"

[Longcruise]

and get groups 2-3 times the size I get with my cast bullet handloads

Sure would like to see some jacketed bullet loads out of that CZ. :-)

[Badnews Bob]

I really wanted a standard .311 bore but I also know DJ is right. I think I'll be sending a reciever off tomarrow for a .44mag and 7.62x 39. I just happen to have a few handies hanging around in my closet so I won't go into withdrawal while I wait.

I also have have a couple of those junk SKS's, One 1954 Russian matching number model that will outshoot all of my friends AKs and other SKSs, and a chinese SKS D sporter that isn't as accurate but is great for blowing off that cheap junk ammo, 30 round AK clips are kind of a pain to reload but are sure fun to empty. :grin:

As for deer hunting I've seen dozens taken with SKSs the 154gr soft tip works very well, The size and carry ability of an SKS probably eceeds the .30-30 around here in Kentucky, I shoot my doe this year at under 30yrds so what do you need? A howitser?

[Longcruise]

I chronographed ten rounds of Wolf 122 HP and they averaged just over 2500 fps.

If the handi is in a .311 I'll almost certainly buy one to re-chamber to 303 brit and maybe another to 7.62X54R.  Both are great hunting rounds, my reloading set up is already online and the project would eliminate the Handi throat :grin:

If in .308 I may still do the same to a 7.5X55 or even one of the american rounds like .308 or 30-06.  Once again, even though they are already available, one can defeat the handi throat!

[Leftoverdj]

[Joel]

  I have one word for you to pass on to those overworked game commision guys who are tired of picking up (doing their job!).   MAGNET

Appreciate your reply, and of course, we all have opinions.  Go easy on our Game Commision guys though.  Our range is sited on 3400 acres of State Game Land and contains a rifle range, pistol range, shotgun range, archery range, and a small Auxilliary range for when  the Main range is closed.  Not to mention trails, gates, experimental plots. etc.  3 Guys maintain all of it.  They have bettre things to do, trust me, than pick up junk ammo left by the lazy.  The rest of us police our areas, being responsible adults and all;  and they did use magnets, BTW.  Still not their job, ol' son.

[Leftoverdj]

Longcruise, I finally got your pictures to display. They are a couple of posts up.

Anyway, here's the explanation. All groups are 50 yards. The white inner squares are 1.25".

#1 is from the CZ. UMC case with Win SRP, 27 grain WC 846, 125 gr Sierra .311.  Yes, there are five shots in there. Group size is in the low threes.

#2 and 3 were from a .308 Mauser. #2 was fired with .310 bullets pulled from Barnaul HP. #3 used .308 125 Rem. The loads were otherwise identical. So were the pressure signs. The Rem load gave a slightly smaller group, but the difference is less than 1/4".

#4, #5, #6 were from the CZ.

#4 measures 3". I strongly suspect the flyer was from inconsistent ignition due to the ungodly hard primer of the UMC factory ammo.

#5 is Barnaul FMJ and measures right at 1.5".

#6 is Barnaul HP and measures 1.25"

The lower image is of some of my cast bullet handload group. They are a bit better than average, but they are not outrageously cherrypicked.

[quickdtoo]

Good shootin!!

[superhornet]

I have wanted a NEF in 7.62x39 long before the old Forum was shut down. I shall be happy with it no matter if in .308 or 310, etc.  Most dies come with two expanded balls, so there appears to be no problem if you reload.  I have plenty of brass and can't wait to get the new barrel..Now, if they would only heed my second wish and come out with the 30-40 Krag.     There is just something about those old rimmed calibers that gets me going...

[Longcruise]

Most dies come with two expanded balls

The Lee dies have both and they also have the factory crimp die for those non-cannelured jobs.

the 30-40 Krag.

I'n not familirar with the case dimensions of the 30-40 but maybe the 30-30 could be rechambered?

If the 7.62X39 is .308 it would easily rechamber :grin:

[quickdtoo]

Hmmm, looks like the Handi isn't the only 7.62x39 that uses a .308 bore!

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=345701#345701