Need info on 9MM jacked flat point ammo

[Crusoe of Lonesome Lake]

Has anybody used Jacked Flat Point bullets on an animal so that they can tell me about what kind of penetration I can expect with them?

JHP’s may be good for cops or self defense but would not get enough penetration on a large animal.  FMJ have all kinds of penetration but that’s about all.  I can’t find any JSP’s in 9MM and don’t know how they would work in a 9MM either.  There seems to be a few different JFP bullets out there so they must be good for something.  But just what can I expect as a defense round for large animals?

[Mikey]

Crusoe:  depending on the size of the animal you can probably expect deep or complete penetration without even a hint of effectiveness.

Flat nosed or truncated nose bullets were developed a long time ago for the 9mm - the 3rd Reich used them during WWII, but they did not expand and neither do today's flatpoint or truncated nose design bullets - they are fmjs and fmjs do not expand.  They were designed to assure positive feeding in semi and fully automatic 9mm weapons.

I would not count on them as an adequate defense against animals.

There are lots of 9mm jacketed soft point loads out there for the 9mm.  Gun Tests Magazine just ran an article on 9mm +Ps and +P+s and they recommend the Remington 9mm 115 gn JHP and the Winchester Ranger 127 gn SXT +P+ was their pick for 9mm defensive loads.

And by the way, what large animals are you talking about?  I would not hesitate to use the 9mm for coyote or large dog, but beyond that you had best consider something in the 10mm or magnum revolver category.  If you are thinking Black Bear or larger, get a magnum revolver in a caliber that begins with 4...  HTH.  Mikey.

[Crusoe of Lonesome Lake]

Mikey

You asked what I intended to shoot with the 9MM.

Hopefully nothing, I like to hike remote mountains in Northern and Western Maine mostly alone where old fire towers were located. Some of these mountains have not been climbed in years.

Back in the 70’s I used to carry an old .22 revolver that wasn’t much good but made a loud noise. Only had to use it once. Through the 80’s and 90’s I never carried anything. There are some changes taking place in the woods up here, more lion sightings and I’m starting to see wolf tracks,  so I picked up a 9MM to carry.

So, like a crotchety old guy I knew once said to a Game Warden when he was asked what he was planning to shoot when he was fishing with a side arm on, "anything that bugs me" (In my case the first shot will be for noise however)

When I’m alone six miles back in the woods hiking up a mountain that no one has climbed in several years, where there is no trail pushing through fir trees so thick you can’t see ten feet it makes you think (maybe it’s time to start carrying a gun again) you know what I mean?

As far as Jacketed Hollow points go I would be very skeptical about using them on an animal with strong mussels and thick bones.  I would think they would not get the penetration needed to kill something and may do more harm then good. (for me I mean)

I would think a Jacketed soft point would be the best bet but can’t find any.  Jacketed flat nose ammo I would think would be my next choice but I am open to sugetions.  I do not have a +P gun so I should not shoot this stuff anyway right?

[rickyp]

Have you thought about getting a nice 357 mag revolver?
you can even get 44 mag or 45 colt in a "trail gun" they are short barreled light framed revolvers. they are a handful to shoot but nice to carry. check out magnaport"s website [/url]http://www.magnaport.com/conv.html

I  would carry a mid size 3" 357 mag you will get much better performance then a 9mm in a smaller package

[Mikey]

Crusoe:  Uh, I can understand your concerns and the need to be somewhat better heeled than with rocks and sticks but friend, a 9mm doesn't make that kinda noise.  It may work with wolves and cats but it won't work with anything hungry.  

I would still recommend a lightweight 357, 41 or 44 magnum just to be safe.  BTW, you mentioned your 9mm is not a +P gun - what make and model is it???  

I finally found a box of 9mm softnose (actually, round nose soft point) that I had laying around.  They are Speer 124 gn round nose soft point.  I don't know if they are still made but it was a decent bullet.  Still, I wouldn't recommend its use against anything really nasty.  HTH.  Mikey.

[jgalar]

I haven't shot anything to verify, but I would guess a flat nosed bullet that was made with an electroplated lead bullet would expand a bit. Something like the Rainier bullets if you reload. You can always alternately load hollow point and solids in your magazine so you have both bases covered.

[ed1921]

Some of the heavier  hollow point 9mm seem to have trouble opening up from what I've heard over the years. So you may end up w/ essencially a solid point.
If you are stuck w/ the 9mm I would get a heavy hp in a +P.
And make sure it works in your gun.
Current Gun Tests magazine seems to rate some +P+ 9mm up there w/ 110 gr. .357 mag rounds.
+P+ ammo can be hard to find, but not impossible.

[rickyp]

I shot a ground hog at 20 yards with my marlin camp carbine. with warm 115 gr hp (handloads) at the sound of the shot the ground hog spun around due to the bullet impact then just walked to his hole. if the 9mm didn't kill the ground hog in it's track then I doubt it would do on anything looking at you as it's dinner.

[Crusoe of Lonesome Lake]

It's a Taurus PT911.  Will +p ammo work in it?

I know it doesn't mater but I just bought it and kinda like it.

I used to have an Erma 380 that was very accurate.  One day I shot 4 rabbits with it using FMJ bullets.  Didn’t seem to mater where I hit them so long as it was in the main part of the body.   I also used to shoot wood chucks when I was a Kid with a .22.  So the wood chuck must not have been hit too hard if it walked away after being hit by a 9MM.

[ed1921]

You'll have to get some & try it.
In general +P ammo has worked in my 9mm's including a marlin camp carbine.
Shooting it all the time may accelerate wear.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: I have to agree totally with Mikey. If you are alone in the wilderness you never know what you might come up against, or what emergency may develop. You need something that starts with a 4. Your 9mm is OK (not the best, but OK) for two legged critters, but for angry four legged ones, you need something that speaks with a greater authority. Get the right tool for the job.

[Savage]

Crusoe,
I spent a little time in your neck of the woods thanks to the government. The area I was in had a lot of black bear. The very minimum I would consider for a trail gun up there would be a 44mag if you can't carry a long gun. The 9mm may make you feel better, but would be almost useless in the event of a critter attack!! Hope you'll consider something bigger.
Savage